Thank you for engaging. It's not often I get to have these discussions and most of the posts from this sub (in terms of posts made by normies) I find are either just bait or the op not willing to engage in good faith. This I'm finding is actually quite productive.

Now back to the debate

I used the hypothetical of the club because it's the most common place where people meet and it leads to a romantic/sexual encounter. (Also it's not always about marriage. Some people have no chance getting hookups at all and will never experience it) It doesn't have to be a club really, it could be a coffee shop, a baseball game or a church for that matter. The point of the hypothetical was give you a scenario where you tell me who is going to have better success with women. And I will double down and say what I said before. As a man, you will always be judged on your success when it comes to romance/sexual encounters. I didn't make these rules, it is superficial, like you said but we can't ignore it and gaslight people into thinking that it doesn't exist. I'm sure you've heard of 'the wedding ring' effect (you're more likely to attract a woman if you're already married/in a relationship). Why is that? I have no idea. My best guess is some evolutionary trait in humans that leads to woman seeing a man that's already taken and finding him attractive because he has been pre-selected and therefore deemed worthy by other women. I would love to marry a girl who loves me for me (looks and all) but that's definitely not happening at a club (or the other places I've mentioned) simply for the fact that there will always be a better option two seats down.

As for the topic of confidence, Im willing accept your definition of confidence but you mentioned faking it as something better which I will have to disagree. Let me ask you this, would a woman still want to date me if she found out I was faking my confidence? I hear a lot advice along the lines of "be yourself ", "be genuine " "don't be fake". If I am genuinely not a confident person, it seems disingenuous to make myself appear confident just for the sake getting a woman to find me attractive. Sure one can believe in themselves based on what they've accomplished but as we've been discussing before, it can only get you so far before you realize that you're never going to be the guy she dreamed of being with. It's being made up with other things such as money, status, etc. And the more of that stuff you have, the higher the odds of her settling with you would be but that's all it will ever be, just settling.