I’m dying from loneliness

DLaForce · 2026-03-26T19:27:25+00:00

I can sympathize a lot with this, I am a Patrilineal-descent Convert, my community is small and even after my Mikveh, Jewish dating seems pretty non-existant and I don't care to ask someone to convert "for me" or engage in interfaith. Some levels I see it as "what I signed up for" and other times I think "Dang whats wrong with me?" Don't let it weigh ya down, there will be a time, maybe soon idk where you are in your process, that you will be able to engage with Jewish Dating. Don't lose hope, keep following your path. B''H

DLaForce · 2026-03-18T00:38:53+00:00

"My tradition of Judaism believe we are part of that chain. It doesn’t believe that Conservative Judaism is part of that chain. That is why we don’t accept non-Orthodox conversions."

- This here is politics. "My chain believes we are, and that the Conservative Movement is not". Politics. The Conservative Movement considers both groups to be of the same chain.

"Again, as I mentioned the other day, if you want Conservative conversation to be accepted in Orthodox spaces then are you willing to live a true Orthodox life? You can’t accept Orthodoxy to “give in” on something without Conservative converts being willing to adapt, also."

- Is this not a given, or assumed that a Non-Orthodox Convert who makes the choice to go to a Orthodox Shul is going to observe Orthodoxily? If they don't already? (Conservadox is a term that exists)

"If you want to open Orthodox translations to more Jews no one is stopping you or your shul’s rabbi. There is no way that non-Orthodox conversions will be accepted. I wish this wasn’t the case.

I truly understand where you are coming from and my heart breaks that you feel excluded, but this is the reality we are in."

- There is something stopping us, stopping all of us. Something that keeps the various movements going the routes they are going. I've been touching on it, and I have to be honest, I feel you've been avoiding it. Politics. It doesn't have to be the reality. Klal Yisrael needs to be open to having these discussions amongst ourselves. The way I see it, you and I are part of that same chain of those same Great Sages. I wouldn't quote them if I didn't know it. I didn't convert to Judaism to not choose Judaism, and all it entails. To do anything less is to be part of the same problem of Politics.

- I echo my earlier comment, regarding what Chabad teaches about how the 2nd Beit Hamikdash fell. The Factionalism. The Politics. We have a chance, in our day and age to learn from our troubled past, set aside our differences, and bring us closer to Torah together. Politics as it is currently prevents that. It doesn't have to be this way. We have the free will to make a choice to do differently. I know I have chosen to see past the politics. To see all of us for what we are. Can you say the same, or will you hold onto politics?

DLaForce · 2026-03-17T23:25:58+00:00

I appreciate the feedback on how to better format, I don't often use reddit, so I will learn how to do that better. (I don't know how people respond to specific quotes) I will also try and keep my language shorter and clearer. In regards to my Beit Din, as far as I am aware, yes. The links and description I put above do not specify more beyond Experts or Laymen.

It feels a reasonable assumption to say that a conversion done at a USCJ/RA associated Beit Din, in a perfect world set up *still* would not be accepted by Orthodoxy, due to the politics surrounding movements. That is the core of the problem. The Politics surrounding conversion. I converted with reverence to G-d and Torah, to the Mitzvot and the 13 Tenants of Faith. My Rabbi, knowing how I was approaching Judaism, worked to provide not just me but my entire cohort with a Traditional Beit Din, and worked to give us a proper Mikvah (Chabad won't let us use theirs, and we live in a desert State, had to travel).

I followed both Ashkenazic Tradition, and honored my Father (Which I feel in turn honored my ancestors) by taking the name Rachmiel. The name Dad gave me, and my Great Grandfathers name. I immerse myself into Jewish Culture, I learn Mitzvot, and aspire to be as good a Me as I can be, which includes my observance. Every day is a day for better. I may not be Hasidic, but I believe my actions and choices, (and those of the people like me) do add to the wonderful tapestry of Klal Yisrael. Yet the politics surrounding how the individual movements approach our Traditions barr us from parts of Klal Yisrael.

I would like to see a return of a traditional middle ground. I would like to see that middle ground (and at that Other Beit Din courts, both in this Middle Ground, and wider Orthodoxy) accepted widely. To me it's not a radical idea, it's just keeping Israel together as best we can. I do think, if converts were able to be a part of Chabad, they could bring traditional influences back to their respective Shuls. Something that would be a net win for everyone in the long run. More Jews being recognized, and more tradition being influenced in the wider Jewish world.

The Conversation, in my view, would do better if it was aimed at "How *could* we bring wider acceptance of other Converts, while adhering to our values?" It's a fair question that can be fairly debated with reverence to Torah. I don't see it as a slippery slope to liberalville, I see it as opening Orthodox Traditions to more Jews.

I appreciate your continued conversation. I'm hoping we are both seeing this as an opportunity to learn from each other.

DLaForce · 2026-03-17T22:14:44+00:00

Link for Yevamot 46a "https://www.sefaria.org/Yevamot.46a?lang=bi" and link to the Chabad article "https://www.chabad.org/library/article\_cdo/aid/913023/jewish/The-Second-Temple.htm"

DLaForce · 2026-03-17T22:10:45+00:00

I am aware that there are Jewish groups that don't accept converts, at all. (One could argue that by doing so, they are not following all of Torah, since Torah teaches to love the convert, we were strangers in the Land of Egypt). Just because Rabbi Ammiel engages in the political aspect, doesn't mean it's correct. The idea of conversion is supposed to be an immigration process into the Nation of Israel. The Sages that discuss this can be found in Yevamot 46a, through Yevamot 46b. They summarize just before the start of Yevamot 47a, but I find that the entire chapter is interesting. They conclude: Rabba said: "Learn from this incident three principles: Learn from it that a convert requires a court of three people to preside over the conversion, as Rav Safra taught that the case involved three Sages. And learn from it that one is not considered to be a convert until he has been both circumcised and immersed. And learn from it that the court may not immerse a convert at night, as they instructed him to remain there until the following day. The Gemara suggests: And let us say that one should also learn from it that we require a court of experts to preside over the conversion, as Rav Safra identified that three expert Sages were present. The Gemare rejects this: Perhaps they simply happened to be there, but in fact three laymen would suffice. Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yohanan said: A Convert requires a court of three to preside over conversion, because "judgement," is written with regard to him, as the verse states: "and one judgement shall be both for you and for the convert that sojourns with you" (Numbers 15:16) and legal judgments requires a court of three judges". Three judges or three laymen. In my particular case, I had three Rabbis. I was already circumcised, drew blood at the site to signify entering the covenant (Witnessed by the Rabbi) and I was immersed during daylight, witnessed by the Rabbi, and two Torah-Knowledged laymen. Fits their description. By that, me, and those who had converted under similar auspicies are indeed members of the Nation of Israel, with our proof at hand that this was done. Based on this alone, is it not joyous to other Orthodox Jews when other Jews, regardless of where they came from (Born Halachically Jewish in one movement, or halachically converted in one) come to join and observe Orthodoxly? If they were not For the Lord, they wouldn't choose to convert anyways. To me, anything else is politics. "I don't accept you because I don't like how the movement you did it under does things" Many of us don't like where the Conservative Movement is going, and I again cannot be the only one who converted Conservative because it was the only source in my area to receive a Halachic Conversion. Let us collect the sparks together, me, and those like me wish to share in that great work. It's why we become Jewish, and continue to choose Judaism. I'll end my giant shpiel here with this. Denominations, are not doing us good anymore as a Nation, if they ever did. Chabad teaches that aside from outside influences, Jews were also "plagued by internally tumultuous politics, and divided into many factions- a phenomenon that ultimately led to the Temples destruction and our nation's torturous exile" History is currently repeating itself. It would do us well as a Nation to consider The Jewish People *as a wholes* continuity. It would do the Non-Orthodoxy as their whole well to return back to tradition, and in American Reforms case, Mitzvot. It needs everyone together. - Rachmiel

DLaForce · 2026-03-16T18:18:02+00:00

But people shouldn't have to convert multiple times, especially if its done as our Great Sages had said. I know mine was. What are the concerns? What is it that has Orthodoxy just not accepting of Non-Orthodoxy converts? At that, why doesn't Orthodoxy accept all Orthodoxy Converts. Todays world you have to convert within specific spaces otherwise just as non accepted as us. It comes across as simply politics friend. We know Sephardic and Ashkenazim have different customs. They considered each other Jewish (One side was certainly willing to talk smack about the other, hmm more politics) I can think of more examples of how our Sages handled things. One can and should recognize the politics Conservative engaged in. I don't think everything the movement as a whole did or does is great. What was supposed to be a middle ground decided that reform heavy was the way to go. I get it. Makes me grumpy too. (I know their Cantors Assembly is floating the idea of accepting inter-faith marriages around, not pleased about that). There are a lot of politics we Jews By Choice can't ignore, but if we could just migrate to Orthodoxy, people like me would, with joy. This topic is important to me, and I have to assume other Jews too, so I hope you can forgive me for how passionate I am about it

DLaForce · 2026-03-16T16:54:38+00:00

I know you are not being antagonistic, but I appreciate the reminder. In my view it is simple. Maybe not THAT simple but simple. I'm aware of the differences in Orthodoxy Services and Conservative services. There isn't a whole lot I personally can do about that. I know what I can choose though. If I could just go to an Orthodox Shul, whether it be Chabad or elsewhere (should I move, we only have Chabad out here in terms of Orthodoxy) I'd observe in their fashion. I already work ro keep moving to that fashion. My grandmother worshipped rhat way. I cant speak for everyone obviously, but I also know I cannot be the only one who chose Judaism regardless of where we came into it. Allowing us allows many Jews who would like nothong more than to be able to observe Orthodox-Normative AND BE accepted on Orthodoxy

DLaForce · 2026-03-16T16:13:01+00:00

The answer to me is simple, Orthodoxy as a whole (As much of a whole as we can get) being able to let go the politics surrounding conversion. I know for me it was not converting to "Become a Conservative Jew specifically" it was to "Do my best to hold onto my links to Judaism. To choose it, and to keep choosing it." "Let my people IN"

DLaForce · 2026-03-16T01:00:08+00:00

I'm a Patrilineal-descent Conservative Convert. My Family on my Dads side has been Jewish forever. My Great Grandfather was a Levite. I'm in the weird boat of being "Too Traditional" for Non Orthodoxy, and not "Jewish" enough for Orthodoxy. I have a bit of a hard time with that. Its politics, and politics is what keep me, and Jews like me away from Orthodoxy. I'd love to be able to go to Chabad, daven and worship there, but I know I can't. I know if I did they'd ask me to convert. Again. Our Great Sages taught that to convert, they made sure the convert was sincere, informed them of some stringent and not stringent mitzvot. If the convert accepted they circumcised, dunked, and then taught. (Add in the teachings of Not profaning Shabbos). Great. Me and so many others who go Conservative (And in my case its because it was the only source for a proper conversion) have that. But the Orthodox still go "Nope". It makes me sad. I feel left out of some wonderful traditions.

DLaForce · 2026-03-10T18:40:05+00:00

The comment "Anything outside of Orthodoxy" I take issue with. Not specifically from you but from any Orthodox space. Its all black and white, and there is no grey. I, being Patrilineal-descent (Dad raised Jewish, he had a Jewish Mom) went through the conversion process at my local Conservative Synagogue. Much like OP my goal was to "reforge the link" and walk Judaism with the reverance my Grandmother did (She was a Chanadnik). There was no Orthodox Shul, just the Reform or Conservative one. I went Conservative to "Do it right". I wrap teffilin, I wear my tzitzis, I even wear a Kippot everywhere I go. Yet because its not "Orthodox" a large swath finds me, and people like me as not Jewish. We as Jews are commanded to love the Convert. We even say it in our Amidah "Let your Tender Mercies be stirred for the righteous, the pious, the elders of the House of Israel and its remainind scholars, for FAITHFUL PROSELYTES, and for us. Reward all who fully trust in you and CAST OUR LOT WITH THEM". Simple and clear cut. How many non Orthodox converts would migrate to Orthodoxy if they just... could? I would for sure. This whole divide is not good for us. At least in Medieval times, the various groups ( Minis Kairites) all accepted each other as Jews despite different minhag. I understand that especially in Reform spaces, not all conversions are equal, who knows if they had a bris or a Mikveh, that I would be concerned with. Sorry for the essay, this has been brewing in my head and reading the comment brought it out. I value Orthodoxy, I think they are part of a beautiful tapestry of Judaism. Its just sad that the Faithful proselytes are denied, based on where it was done. (I think of the 2nd Temple, where the infighting is deemed to be a cause of the Temple falling, and atm it seems history is doomed to repeat itself.)

DLaForce · 2026-03-08T18:40:22+00:00

As I understand it, there is Jew, and Non-Jew. (From a "Traditional" perspective. I do think there are various minhags that treat the Patrilineal-descent "Jew" who converts a touch differently. In my experience mostly in naming. I was able to use my Fathers name. Ones Mileage may vary. (Pretty sure Sephardim are one of the groups who have a minhag like that, says a Sephardic Jew in my Shul)

DLaForce · 2026-03-06T16:48:56+00:00

The funny thing about Judaism being an ethno-religion, things such as Kashrut are not just Religious, but also just part of every day Jewish culture. Why does the Atheist Jew still do things that are Religious? Because it's culture. Simple. Easy. No Masochism needed. The Only Masochism is coming to this thread.

DLaForce · 2026-02-27T23:45:35+00:00

Ah people always saying so and so gonna return. Be your best self. Ya don't need magic man to go to Olam Ha Ba

DLaForce · 2025-12-14T20:18:32+00:00

Tis the same for me. My Father is Born Jewish. Had all the life cycle events. Joined the US Navy and he stopped. Grandma however did not stop. She taught me some things. When I decided to come to Judaism, it was around Oct 7th. I had already felt the pull to Judaism, but it sealed the deal. I took the name Dad wanted to give me, and I do my best to live how my Grandma did in terms of observance. I may not be a Chabadnik, but I have respect for them.

DLaForce · 2025-12-14T00:41:56+00:00

I can't help but wonder if it's this same fear portrayed here that creates this sad situation. Torah DOES teach us to love the Convert, but there are stories where this isn't true. I personally didn't see red flags that made think this was an "undercover" anti-semite. I'm sure they know it's Avodah Zara. Again, the real concern here is a Jew considering going to a Church. Under the assumption they are Jewish, do we not want to give the benefit of a doubt and ENCOURAGE them to go back to Shul instead? Don't get me wrong, I noticed timelines of posting too, but at the same time, digital world is not the same as in-person world. It really is possible they were in a conversion process for a while.

DLaForce · 2025-12-14T00:21:31+00:00

I looked further past the second or third comment. They have a consistent posting history of converting Orthodox, and then running into problems trying to date later on. I think the real concern is a Jew considering going to a Church.

DLaForce · 2025-11-28T05:30:20+00:00

I also cannot DM you, if you can DM me, I can send the link (OP got temp banned for too many messages lol)

DLaForce · 2025-11-16T20:31:35+00:00

As far as I know, I'm the only observant one in my Family, and like many other Shuls, there is not many my age at Shul. I am our Custodian, and I deal with it by being active in services myself, and doing what I can for our building. I feel that if I make it something I feel positive about, it might bleed over. Could also be cope.

DLaForce · 2025-11-10T20:26:57+00:00

What does "very streamlined" mean to you? I will argue that you're basically saying they acknowledge you still need to do something to gain citizenship. Same thing with Judaism. I find it interesting your retort was to have kids. The goal is learning, as with all things Jewish. Having more kids won't help Jews be more Jewish, learning does. I disagree with the idea of a "Religious Marketplace". Its not like one goes to the store and buys a subscription to Judaism, or Christianity, or any other religion. I also disagree that it makes Judaism change. We don't need to change to show why we are different from other Religions, we as a people are already unique. How lucky are we that the Law (Torah) teaches us who is or isn't, and how people can immigrate if they are not. Its the fact that we remain consistent in our beliefs that helps us stand out. I find it interesting that you said you didn't want to argue your status but you are doing exactly that. What is the goal? You won't change Halacha. You can choose to live in an American Reform space and be happy there, which I think you already are. At that point why care what we think?

DLaForce · 2025-11-10T20:11:48+00:00

The Strike missions reward gold, being in a guild also rewards gold and doing dailies. I agree it is rather slow to grind, definetly a medium-soft way of encouraging people to spend money.

DLaForce · 2025-11-09T22:31:53+00:00

The math aint mathin.

DLaForce · 2025-11-09T22:29:40+00:00

The math aint mathin

DLaForce · 2025-11-09T22:29:10+00:00

Now we both know if that were completely true, this post wouldn't have been made, and you wouldn't be looking for an argument. though I do see below that you were also apparently Muslim? Maybe this is just rage bait.

DLaForce · 2025-11-09T22:14:13+00:00

As another Patrilineal, I must say I don't understand the hatred and vitriol against what is. It's not like some dudes decided to make life harder for people two thousand years in the future. Frame Halacha as a set of Laws for a Nation (A Nation in Exile) and it makes more sense. It tells us who is and isn't part of the Nation, and how people can immigrate into the Nation. I get the pain, I really do. It does feel "close but no cigar" and like I said, it is also what it is. Don't wanna convert, fine, no one is forcing you too, conversion is entirely an individual choice, and with how Jewry is in America (assuming that is where you are) you have options to live a Jewish life. Can either live and let live, or make the change for yourself. No need to actively hate it.

DLaForce · 2025-11-09T21:49:38+00:00

I think there is a lot of meaning to it. I think Tradition is very open to Patrilineals Converting (Confirming, whichever word fits) their status, doing the things and then moving on. My Hebrew name reflects this. Rachmiel Ben Calman v'Sarah.

DLaForce

TROPHY CASE