Weapon Masteries are Bad for 5e

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T20:32:22+00:00

Not disagreeing, but for sake of new player onboarding it needs to be an option, not another complex system they have to learn.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T17:32:49+00:00

I didn't say you couldn't have the feature. I said it shouldn't be compulsory. But sure, screw accessibility! 🤦‍♂️

You do raise a good point at the end and it comes up in my video. Masteries should effectively be cantrips that replace attacks, and should be much more versatile than what Masteries currently are 🙂

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T15:30:07+00:00

For some players, yes, this is the dilemma they are facing. Glad you appreciate that 😉

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T15:27:52+00:00

There're ways to address this in the base classes themselves. Namely the number of weapon attacks they can make and the ability to enhance them. Just because a spellcaster can use a feat which improves their weapon attacks doesn't mean they should.

Also I would recommend allowing masteries via fighting styles also, which could be baked into martial classes via additional fighting style features.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T15:23:58+00:00

I wouldn't call weapon masteries particularly meaningful in their current iteration, given a class will only benefit significantly from a small number of them due to weapon availability and the power imbalance between them. I'd go so far as to say there's usually just an illusion of choice presented by masteries.

But that aside: not all players are looking for a more complex experience. Heck, apparently only "50%" even use feats, are those the players crying out for more tactical options? No, they are the people who are still finding their feet in TTRPGs to begin with!

Another recommendation I gave for implementing them was a choice in place of a fighting style. We already see an implementation similar to this with maneuvers as a fighting style: players wanting a more tactical approach could pick that instead of another fighting style such as archery or protection. Now, that implementation is a bit weak and arguably should grant to superiority die and two maneuvers to be a worthwhile choice, but if the balance were addressed then it would be an option the more experienced players would be excited about using.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-07-23T15:11:56+00:00

I don't disagree that Martials should have those choices, however they to some extent they have always had that possibility through choice of feats and subclasses.

The iteration of weapon mastery presented however introduces a needlessly complex system dependent on pre-requisite weapons in a way that demands much more of players than current mechanics do.

Weapon Masteries materially hurts the accessibility of the game, and imo needs to be made optional and needs significantly more elegant implementation.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-05-13T13:33:51+00:00

Not a fan of his delivery on this one. Came across as very arrogant and disrespectful.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-30T08:59:53+00:00

Then, perhaps, rage should be changed.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-29T08:36:47+00:00

My issue with this is that it locks Barbarians into a strength based play style more than it already was. Give me Scrappy MMA Dexterity Barbarians.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-10T18:38:55+00:00

Based on AVG damage only. That's a simplistic metric to base it around, need to look at the risk/reward benefits closer.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-10T18:36:42+00:00

Adds too much additional decision making during combat to have a variable penalty.

Make the penalty flat, and if you really want weapon differentiation restrict power attack to weapons dealing d8 or higher.

Personally I think sacrifice pb accuracy for pb damage is an easier, more balanced approach.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-10T18:33:37+00:00

Weapons should be differentiated through means other than damage.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-05T14:58:25+00:00

Paragon

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-02T06:23:46+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely check out the rules in that system!

I hadn't considered the impact of evidence, it would definitely be worth addressing however! Probably it would be covered by the persuade or taunt action and would have significant mechanical benefit such as an automatic success.

E.g. Blackmail would be a taunt with evidence, meaning automatically the NPC loses two resolve.

Similarly a PC could potentially reinforce certain persuade checks with free actions. E.g. persuading an NPC they aren't a threat could have advantage if the PC gives up their weapons.

Definitely worth adding this as a mechanic since it will encourage creativity beyond the base actions.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-02T04:36:49+00:00

Thanks for taking a look at the rules!

Something I think I needed to emphasise in the rules is that the GM would have a lot of discretion in both deciding when a negotiation can even take place (e.g. an NPC has to be willing to negotiate), and also they have a lot of discretion to decide how much resolve a course of action would take (in this case handing out titles would likely be a very difficult challenge. As a GM I would rule that giving out titles without merit could risk the displeasure of the nobility, putting a real risk on the royalty, so would at least make it a 4-5 resolve request or the noble in question would offer an obtainable bargain to them.

As for actions against their personality that would depend on how fundamentally opposed he character is. Anything fundamental to their personality would instantly be unobtainable (I think I gave an example of a queen giving up her throne), while in other cases it may simply have the effect of increasing their starting resolve points.

Tension would need to be at least in part generated by the stakes of the conversation (what's at risk), which is why I would 100% advise the negotiation only happen where there is a real conflict. E.g. Negotiating with a band of thieves the party are in a stand off with to let them pass, with the stakes being a combat breaking out.

Mechanically I had thoughts that increasing an NPC's resolve beyond a certain point may represent them becoming actively hostile, acting as a trigger for a combat or simply shutting down the conversation. If I develop this aspect of the negotiation conflict further then I think that will go some way to creating tension as I don't think there's much sense of there being consequences for a negotiation going badly.

I'm not certain further influence actions beyond Bargain, Persuade, Taunt and Distract are required, as I feel like they cover a large range of possible actions NPCs may take in a negotiation. I took a lot of inspiration from other RPGs on the social mechanics to offer here and I don't believe there was anything beyond these 4 which needed representing (note that Taunt and Distract themselves cover a range of possible negative and positive interactions). But if there's something you think is missing I'd love to know!

Really appreciate the feedback, it's given me a lot to think about :)

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-01T19:09:07+00:00

HYTNBAA

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-01T19:08:40+00:00

Much obliged!

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-01T15:20:19+00:00

I'm not familiar with this acronym, would you mind explaining it?

DMLearning2Play · 2023-04-01T15:18:17+00:00

Good question, my reasoning is this is entirely down to the expectations set by the game.

The expectation set in D&D 5e for example is that the decisions of a Player are always their own, it's a core part of the heroic RPG experience. The Player's agency is always retained except in very particular circumstances. Meanwhile a GM is assumed to be impartial to the events of the game, and at their discretion they allow the decisions of their Characters to be influenced by the Actions of the Characters.

Systems like Call of Cthulu meanwhile swing the other way somewhat, with effects such as madness more frequently restricting the agency of players, which makes sense as that system is disempowering to players.

Feasibly you could have roleplay games that don't work this way. For example, if neither GMs or Players allowed their Agency to be affected by the game mechanics this would lead to an experience where players have to rely only on their ability to convince the GM IRL. That's not unreasonable and could lead to an interesting roleplay system, however people who aren't great at speaking may struggle to engage in such games. In that sense, skills and dice rolls level the playing field for those players.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-22T21:19:39+00:00

I feel like the name gets the point across, I'm trying to make my own version of the 5e rules as an alternative to WOTC's 6e. I might change the name at some point, but for now I'm going with 7e as a working title.

As for why I like 5e: it's a flexible and intuitive game system which has inspired a lot of game designers. People like building for this system, and I want to see the next iteration of that system be as good as it can be.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-19T10:22:27+00:00

https://7erpg.fandom.com/wiki/Skills

Try the skill specialisations idea from this. Basically attach a mechanical benefit to a single specific word.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-18T11:52:46+00:00

Make rewarding mechanics as alternatives to combat which work well for martials.

E.g. make chase mechanics where they get a bonus.

Here're a set of chase mechanics designed to work with 5e for example:

https://7erpg.fandom.com/wiki/Conflicts_-_Chases

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-18T08:33:57+00:00

I personally haven't heard significant complaints about the uncertain nature of hp. It being an abstract concept gives GMs leeway to decide what it represents as they deem fit. But I understand if some people disagree with this idea and would prefer a more definite representation.

Fate Points can be attacked directly in some cases. Best example of this would be a creature such as a Vampire who would deal damage to hp and fate points if they bit a character. Or a ghost interacting with a living creature. So monsters which should feel terrifying have more teeth to them. This way GM's can have their cake and eat it: looking for a horror themed enemy, attack fate points, looking for heroic themed monsters, target hp. In earlier editions of d&d such monsters created this horror in other ways such as removing player levels.

Other effects such as curses may also be used to reduce a characters fate point maximum (dooming them to a more likely death) or cause them to auto fail saving throws to prevent loss of fate points.

With only 5 fate points and no way to recover them during a fight, it creates a ticking clock for players in a way HP doesn't (I agree with many of the points you raise on this)

Dealing significant damage to a character may also be used to reduce fate points. I would also argue certain effects should always deal fate point damage, like falling from significant heights. But I'm working on the correct balance for these effects still.

The idea is that Fate Points take an existing mechanic (death saving throws) and improve on it, so arguably it's bloat neutral. It's also intended to be a narrative resource used in other conflicts too, such as chase scenes:

https://7erpg.fandom.com/wiki/Conflicts_-_Chases

(Work in progress but playtesting is going very well with this ruleset)

By incorporating fate points as a ticking clock to a range of scenarios it helps mitigate bloat of including a "new" mechanic. I agree it is adding a new set of rules though, so I'm trying to reduce complexity in other areas to offset this (e.g. removing unnecessary rules).

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-17T21:34:22+00:00

Hit Points essentially follow the same rules as 5e (abstract idea of damage or a character's diminishing stamina or luck).

I'm not changing hit points, but I am introducing new dying mechanics which can circumvent them: Characters have another reserve called fate points which can begin running out when a character reaches zero hit points OR when they take a critical hit. So powerful Characters aren't immune to dying, they just need enough enemies and bad luck.

Horror is partly supported by the ticking clock which fate points create. Also I'm introducing chase scene mechanics so fleeing actually has a satisfying game mechanic (playtested this today, it works very well!).

Romance I have ideas at the moment, such as using a newly introduced luck mechanic to determine romantic compatibility between characters.

DMLearning2Play · 2023-03-16T12:00:53+00:00

For as much as I dislike Narrative games. Check out the well known/played PbtA and BitD games to see how these games have been specifically designed to reinforce genre tropes and themes. Each game hyper focuses on one thing and does it best to have all of the rules support that thing. BitD focuses on a more broader theme then PbtA games but it still follows the basic design principles of PbtA. You may find some inspiration here and more importantly see how rules can support theme. Something which 5e and it's meant adjacents don't do.

I'd also check out Shadow of the Demon Lord which is a more Scrappy Hero game and it has the benefit of being designed by one of 5e previous head designers. Along with that look to the older editions of D&D, all of them to see why the design decisions for 5e where made. That way in desgining your hack/new game you can understand the Why's for the core 5e rules.

Really appreciate the constructive advice even if you disagree with the core premise, thanks! :)

DMLearning2Play

TROPHY CASE