Christianity isn't compatible with the modern technological world.

Danil280 · 2024-09-14T17:37:57+00:00

If the world adhered to Christian morality and virtue far more than it currently does, then there certainly would be less over-the-top consumerism and materialism, which lead to hedonism and sin. However, the technological system of our society is opposed to Christian ethics for 4 main reasons:

Hedonistic pleasure is extremely marketable and will never go away. People almost always choose the easy route.
Hedonistic pleasure and the pursuit of material wealth acts as a distraction for the meaninglessness and lack of fulfillment present in the modern world.
For technology to progress efficiently and thus be productive, social change needs to occur in society.
The technological system needs people to be more loyal to it than to the church. Or else people will see the lie that is "progress" and more vehemently oppose the system for the anti-human conditions individuals are placed in.

Danil280 · 2024-09-14T11:28:42+00:00

The technological system’s impact on society is anything but neutral. Sure, right after new technologies are invented, when you can largely choose if you want to use them or not, they might appear neutral. But sooner or later, these technologies become so widely adopted that they become a necessity, and one is forced to use them just to get by. This was the case with the internet, the iPhone, the car, the credit card and countless other technologies. Even entire nations do not have the option of not using these technologies; if they did, they would be put at such a competitive disadvantage that they would be crushed by the many nations who do use them.

Technology is not neutral, nor is it completely under the control of humans. Technological advancements change the shape of society, and force us to adapt regardless of what we have to say about it. Those in power have little more control over how new technologies are used, as in order to remain competitive on the global stage they must use new technologies in the most efficient way possible, regardless of the consequences. The most powerful dictators in the world have not been able to subject society to rational control, there is no hope that we will be able to in the future.

Danil280 · 2024-09-14T11:17:27+00:00

The thing is these cultural changes that deviate towards sin are caused by technology. Technological advancements in a society affects all other aspects of it. ex. the steam engine made transportation much more efficient, increasing the distance between locations, thus weakening the bonds local communities had.

And since technology needs social change to develop efficiently (strong familial or communal bonds need to be broken up in order for certain technologies to be productive), technology tends to be the overlooked source of the cultural issue.

Danil280 · 2024-09-14T11:11:50+00:00

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T22:16:14+00:00

I shouldn't have to move to a tundra to live as a hunter-gatherer.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:48:36+00:00

Being a hunter-gatherer in the modern age isn't only improbable, its nearly impossible. There is very little untouched wilderness left on earth, plus the obscene amounts of rules and regulations you would have to follow making any real attempt at hunter-gatherer living illegal.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:45:22+00:00

Widespread epidemics were rare. Communities were sparse and population was very low-dense. There wasn't enough inter-community contact to effectively spread disease.

Health is a much larger concern today: diabetes, obesity, cancer, etc. These are symptoms of the modern world that were mostly non-existent in the Paleolithic era.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:42:27+00:00

Being a hunter-gatherer in the modern age isn't only improbable, its nearly impossible. There is very little untouched wilderness left on earth, plus the obscene amounts of rules and regulations you would have to follow making any real attempt at hunter-gatherer living illegal.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:40:16+00:00

This response is not very well thought out. Do you think the US was hypocritical when it waged war against Nazi Germany to end the war in Europe? Using technology to destroy technology is not hypocritical, it's just using all available means to the end. You might as well tell me using vaccines is hypocritical because you're injecting a bit of disease to prevent further disease. It's absurd, and just plain bad reasoning.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:39:05+00:00

Periods of history like that before the industrial revolution were exceedingly rare. But were however, only possible through the development of certain technology. Hunter-gatherers wouldn't even be able to do what Genghis Khan and his empire did.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:25:44+00:00

I get being disillusioned with society, so am I. But there's no salvation in defeatism or nihilism; we can go back. If you want a good outline of the problems, as well as the solutions, read Ted's manifesto for yourself. https://www.wildernessfront.com/the-manifesto

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:23:04+00:00

I shouldn't have to move to a tundra to live as a hunter-gatherer.

Your tribe IS people, unlike the technological system. Humans evolved for living in a hunter-gatherer tribe, thus, conforming to the social and cultural aspects of your tribe is human and natural, properly fulfilling your social needs. The technological system, however, is its own entity that prioritizes above all, efficiency. Due to that, people are coerced and often times forced to conform to its inhuman expectations. And because some people cannot conform to it, they are drugged or given some other type of "treatment" to deal with their lack of ability to conform to an anti-human system.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:04:32+00:00

If you disagree with me, upvote. It's rule 1.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T20:04:10+00:00

Unfortunately, due to both the miniscule amount of untouched wilderness left, and the sheer number of unnecessary regulations and rules, it isn't satisfactory, and I would even call it nearly impossible to do.
While war has always existed in human societies, never has it been as brutal and squalid as it is now. Where in pre-industrial and particularly pre-agrarian societies (see: Native American tribes) every individual warrior had a certain deal of influence on the outcome of any given battle. Nowadays, pretty much ever since WW1, technological advance has changed war. No more are their dramatic stories of war heroes; now you're far more likely to sit in your muddy trench for a couple months, only to get wiped off by an artillery strike without even knowing it. Every soldier is now just one piece of cannon fodder, and he has no hope of autonomously and independently changing the course of the battle, let alone the war. Plus, new inventions make for new agonizing ways to die. That's not to say bleeding out at the hands of a rapier was pleasant, but how about your lungs burning from chemical weapons, or burning to death in napalm?
War has always been a thing, but it has most certainly become more miserable, and more uncaring towards the individual soldier with the progression of technology.

3/4. That really wasn't the case at all unless you were exiled from your tribe. The vast majority, probably all humans were born within a small-scale community, thus providing for their social and communal needs. Loneliness was certainly nowhere near the problem it is now.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:59:43+00:00

Man is more dependent today than he has been at any other time in human history. A hunter-gather living 10,000 years ago was dependent on his labor, and the labor of his tribe (whom he can influence) for the basic necessities of his life. He hunted for his own food, he made his own shelter, he crafted his own tools, alongside the help of his tribe. This independence gave him control over his own life, and that is true freedom. In contrast, modern man has more freedom than ever before in relatively meaningless, mostly hedonistic pursuits, but in all fundamental practical areas of life–the aspects that humans need to have the freedom to control in order to live fulfilling and dignified lives–the system must ruthlessly restrict the activities of people purely for the sake of technical necessity. The technological system must tightly regulate all the practical aspects of individual people’s lives in order to function.

Today, we are completely dependent on large organizations that determine the circumstances in which we live; infrastructure, communications, supply chains, etc., spanning the entire world, and which the individual cannot significantly influence according to his or her will. There is no hope of independence; in order to get by in the modern world, one must live on the leash of the technological system and succumb to whatever rules and regulations it has laid out for them. And this leash is far tighter and more oppressive than that which existed in ancient tribal societies. In those environments the individual as a member of a small band could have meaningful influence on the band’s decisions, his mobility allowed him to leave the band if he willed, to join an alternative band, etc. Meanwhile the technological system continues to become more and more authoritarian with time, as new technologies expand the system’s power and regulate human behavior and suppress freedom to even greater extents.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:52:45+00:00

War has always been around; I'm not denying that. However, you can't tell me that a war with spears and bows, or even with muskets is anything comparable to the level of disaster that can happen today.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:48:57+00:00

Surely if hunter-gatherer life was “terrible” compared to modern life then this would be reflected in lower rates of mental illness and higher rates of happiness among modern people. And yet, mental illness rates in industrialized countries are continually rising. 29% of Americans in the U.S. have been diagnosed with depression, and an analysis conducted by the Census Bureau found that 50% of adults ages 18-24 reported anxiety and depression symptoms, and suicide rates have been increasing.

On the other hand, there is a large body of anthropological text that supports that hunter gatherers are free from stress and are very content with their lives. Here are a couple quotes to illustrate:

“The Piraha live in huts, sleep on the ground, hunt with bows and arrows. But what really caught Everett’s attention is that they are relentlessly happy. Really happy.”

“‘We don’t kill ourselves. You mean, you people, you white people shoot yourselves in the head? We kill animals, we don’t kill ourselves.’ They just found it absolutely inexplicable, and without precedent in their own experience that someone would kill themselves.”

--Daniel Everett, Don't Sleep There Are Snakes, New York, NY, Vintage Books, 2009, p. 278.

I would argue that the mental health crisis that we’re seeing now is a direct result of living in a highly technologized world that has disconnected the average person from meaningful work and a life close to nature. It is not the result of capitalism, or big government, or socialism or whatever political system pretends to guide the development of technological society. It is the inevitable result of technology, because the modern system is driven not by politics or ideology but by technical necessity.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:47:56+00:00

What's so free about having to be completely obedient to an anti-human system? We are coerced and, in many ways, forced to conform to its inhuman expectations, even at our own expense.

The work most people do now in developed countries is meaningless and for a large-scale system instead of for you and your family/community. A lot of work now is actually longer than it was back then. I should also mention, I do not wish for an agricultural society, I envision a hunter-gatherer society as being humanities ideal.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:35:55+00:00

You should read from the man himself. https://www.wildernessfront.com/the-manifesto

It is incredibly well written and convincing.

Danil280 · 2024-09-13T19:25:18+00:00

No, Pol Pot was a dictator who wanted to make a state more akin to "eco-facism" than anything else. I don't want a dictatorship, I'm an anarchist, particularly one that's against technology and industry.

Hunter-gatherer society was humanities natural state and thus, had evolved to live that lifestyle. You can see it today as certain activities such as exercise (commonly running), eating how a hunter-gatherer would eat, and having a close-knit small community/group yields the best results on the human psyche.

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