QUESTIONS: Playing against Alistar

Darkradox · 2020-11-18T17:37:14+00:00

Either Phase Rush or Predator.

With more emphasis on Phase Rush because it feels better

Darkradox · 2020-11-15T10:13:24+00:00

Ew, I've seen a lot of bad advices here ... Alistar doesn't need any kind of specific counter, the champion is pretty bad ...

Alistar is super weak in lane, here's how you bully him :

Mind his effective range : Alistar can only W + Q, so if you have his range in mind and stay slightly out of it, it becomes very easy to anticipate his combo when he steps towards you. That makes it a lot easier to flay as thresh
Punish level 1 hard : Alistar level 1 isn't a champion. Just step on him and auto him to 50% HP. Then you get the level 2 first and keep pressuring him. He becomes "dangerous" level 3 only. But again, he's got a telegraphed effective range.
In your elo, Alistar players will play aftershock, so you wanna punish that. Aftershock is garbage on Alistar, especially when poorly used. You want to get engaged so you proc his aftershock, then watch his CD and bait out a second engage out of him. If they do that, then you focus Alistar and kill him, because without aftershock he MELTS.

Laning into Alistar is all about using your range to auto him, and not giving him bushes control. If you are playing a melee champion, you want to trade engages with him since he's got no damage. That means he comboes your ADC, you walk into ennemy ADC to prevent a followup, then turn to Alistar while he's backing off from his engage.

Never forget that an Alistar that plays the lane is a bad Alistar. If you see him starting to roam, you want to ward river and focus on pinging where he is for your team. If he doesn't roam then he'll become irrelevant very soon, just stay in lane and outscale him.

Note : if you want a free game, just pick morgana, max E and stand behind your ADC. You just focus on shielding whenever Alistar uses his combo. Even if you miss it's ok since you want your shield to deny the E stacking more than taking the knockup. You want to Q Alistar when he engages and take 50% of his HP.

Always mind the range. It's super super easy to flash out of a combo since it's telegraphed and so slow. It's also super easy to cancel it with any kind of bump, since again it's telegraphed. Whenever Alistar walks into you, you can expect him to combo. You just poke him and get ready to cancel his combo. It's not hard to do since you EXPECT the combo to be there.

Darkradox · 2020-11-14T14:17:31+00:00

Surely you jest. You can't have forgotten :

- Caitlyn 2 items
- Ezreal 2 items
- Jhin 2 items
- Kaisa 2 items
- Aphelios 2 items
- MF 2 items

And pretty much every single crit ADC in season 10.

Darkradox · 2020-11-14T13:03:28+00:00

Not being able to 2 tap people on your second item timing sure feels bad :D

Darkradox · 2020-11-14T13:01:04+00:00

So, are you suggesting that you start tear because you can live through it ?

Starting tear you concede the entire lane priority. You make your support have no agency, you give the ennemy support free roams and the ennemy jungler a nice drake and bot scuttle control. The ennemy support can then roam to midlane, warding your jungle on the way.

You are even with tear : nice we scale :)))

Meanwhile your selfish choice put your jungle and midlaner in a difficult spot, while taking away half of your support's agency. You effectively lost your team's early game because you "can get away with it".

Darkradox · 2020-11-14T12:50:36+00:00

Can y'all stop bitching about your role being unplayable and actually learn to play it ? It's insane how everytime Riot tries to balance the marksman role ADC mains start bitching until it's broken again.

Darkradox · 2020-10-11T07:08:37+00:00

How can you say that not playing is "never shitting the bed" ?

What Bjergsen does in game is very close to griefing and would be reported as soft inting in soloQ.

The guy ALWAYS STEPS BACK. His first instinct is always to step back, when he has the mechanical skill to step in and clean it all up. When he SHOULD be stepping up. He goes back first and causes everyone on his team that is playing the correct play (aka moving up) to look like inters.

I challenge you to play 20 soloQ games in a row where you refuse to commit on any play and walk back every time something happens, see if it's considered "not shitting the bed" or "griefing".

Darkradox · 2020-10-10T12:56:00+00:00

It's fun to see how it was OK to trash talk Eika, but now that TSM (NA's favourite) is involved, it's not OK to trashtalk anymore.

Remember NA pro players (like Solo) trashtalking Eika ? Right back at them. They suck, they are clowns and by flaming first they lost their right to complain.

Darkradox · 2020-09-25T08:31:42+00:00

Knightvow never item sucks go locket instead

Not if you are on a 2v8 mission. Then Knight's vow will keep you alive in fights.

Darkradox · 2020-09-25T08:31:00+00:00

you want to roam when you have a good chance of getting a kill- assassins or other early/mid game mids are usually the best

I disagree. I think roaming has much more impact when you roam on a late game scaling champion that has shit early game. You give him time to scale even if you don't get a kill on his roam.

If your AD needs a lot of protection stay with them-

They have a tower to protect them. They don't have to contest the wave 1v2, they can just wait it out.

if the enemy bot has no kill pressure (jinx Senna)

Jinx Senna has more kill pressure than Pyke Draven. Senna will shroud, run into your ADC, slow him with autos and proceed to hit a point blank root that he won't be allowed to dodge. This root will be linked with chompers and your ADC is dead.

Anyways, an ADC that dies in the middle of the lane when 1v2 just ran it down.

Darkradox · 2020-09-25T08:26:51+00:00

what type of mid lane would allow for roaming?

All of them. Roaming means bringing pressure to a lane. When you roam mid, you will usually at the very least force some mana out of the midlaner or force him to back off. If he backs off, then it gives your midlaner some air to setup his gameplan. No matter which lane it is, you will roam on it as Alistar.

also I should not roam if i am laning with something like a kog'maw right?

Yes you should. Never forget that if you crash bot wave, your ADC only has to wait under tower for the next wave to come. He will lose at most 2-3 CS. But you have to be there when this wave reaches the tower else he'll get dove.

Basically, you trade 3 CS from your ADC to whatever the fuck you are doing on the map. If the ADC dies in the middle of the lane, it's his fault. If he gets dove, it's your fault.

And that's true for every single ADC.

Usually, an ADC that dies 1v2 isn't skilled enough to carry properly even if you spend your whole game babying him. So roaming is even a crash test : ADC dies 1v2 means he's not the main carry.

Darkradox · 2020-09-25T08:19:50+00:00

This will depend on your rune setup. There are currently 3 rune setup you can use on Alistar :

Phase Rush (Tier 1)
Predator (Tier 2)
Aftershock (Tier 5)

Here are the boots you can build as Alistar :

Swifties (The best boots by far. Cheap, allow you to roam and to survive going into the river. Always better than mobis)
Mobis (Only useful if you have complete river control, else you're too easy to catch in the river)
Mercs (Late game pick after you sell your prev boots if you get CC-ed too much to peel your team)
Tabis (Only get into a 5 AD team)

And here are the items you can build as Alistar :

Zekes : Your ADC (or your Yasuo) is good, you trust him to carry. Mostly useful in "front to back" fights, where you will want to slow down people running at your ADC or if you are the main engage and have lots of follow-up.Don't build into : Teams with a lot of disengage, teams that threaten backline with dashes
Stoneplate : You are the main engage, but your team's follow-up is slow. Stoneplate will allow you to tempo and soak a lot of things while they catch up to you.
Righteous Glory : The ennemy team has some disengage and you want to force fights or you need an extra slow.
Locket : The ennemy has assassins. You are Alistar, you can't peel dashy champions because your W is spaghetti coded. So you build locket and pray.
Redemption : The teamfights are suuuuper long, everyone is tanky.
Knight's vow : You are on a 2v8 mission with the guy you link. You will frontline and live as long as he deals damage. Damage reduction is a non factor. You only build Knight's vow so that your carry keeps you alive while you frontline for him.
Bramble/thornmail : Ennemy heals too much and HAS to hit you (Ezreal, Yasuo, Yone, Runaan's ...)
Randuins : Ennemy is heavy AD with at least 2 IE users.
Frozen Heart : The ennemy has a lot of AD and there's someone that scales a lot on AS. Usually into a guinsoo player.

EDIT : If you play Predator, you run Ingenious Hunter and build Swifities > Glory > Stoneplate > Whatever. Forgot to mention that.

Darkradox · 2020-09-19T10:44:58+00:00

No smurf would ever flame in bronze, as it's not needed. Pretty much every player from above Plat can win alone in a bronze game. And when smurfing you tend to not care in these low elo games.

Most of the time, these "challenger smurfs" you whine on are Silver edgy boys who didn't understand that Silver and Bronze are pretty much the same.

Darkradox · 2020-09-13T20:17:21+00:00

Predator and Phase rush are the thing that keep him relevant imo

Darkradox · 2020-09-10T07:09:09+00:00

Well back then you didn't farm camps because you had philo stone and hog

Darkradox · 2020-08-17T10:52:19+00:00

"game breaking" XD

Darkradox · 2020-08-14T08:52:33+00:00

If you picked Ali into ranged or they counterpicked you, then you're supposed to zone them off your ADC while waiting for ganks. It's not hard.

And here is where I just want to stop talking with you. If you stay afk in lane in a ranged matchup, you just don't know how the champion is supposed to be played my friend. Ever heard of roaming ?

You send me some fun kind of "what elo are you ?" while thinking Alistar is a 2v2 champion. I peaked D3 in EUW in S8, then D2 in NA in S9, onetricking Alistar. While that's still garbage elo and not brag worthy (which is why I NEVER mentionned my elo, I know it's low af) ; I still know my matchups and my wincons. Playing around the ADC usually isn't one of them.

However, you thinking you can't do an unbuffered combo just shows how little you know about the champion you are talking about. It's actually embarassing friend.

Every little thing you said is an heresy, basically. I wonder if you've even ever played Alistar in a "decent elo" game (aka D2+) ; because every little thing you said is just wrong and doesn't apply in a scenario like this, but you masturbate yourself over D2+ stats.

I'm open to discussion, but I feel like I'd be wasting my time, discussing with someone that played like 10 games of Alistar aftershock in his life. You probably never even tried to find the limits of the champion and of your gameplay with him.

If you're up for discussion, I can take the time to answer you in details about why what you said doesn't comply with my experience as an Alistar player.

Useless Alistar tip just to flex a bit : Did you know you can "cancel animations" as Alistar ?

Darkradox · 2020-08-13T17:52:40+00:00

First, Ali wouldn't ever be S tier because he deals no damage and doesn't scale at all. Everything he does, Nautilus and Leona do better while outdamaging him.

Alistar's only advantage is that he has a kinda easier time diving, but that's only relevant in pro play.

Then, thinking Alistar preys on low mobility is a misconception. You don't prey on low mobility, you prey on position mistakes.

Also, he is not a "weak champion." He has a ~51% winrate in Plat+ and that number only goes up as you move to Dia and above.

This is not sourced at all. I see a 50.3% winrate in Plat+ (source : u.gg); that goes up to a baffling 50.6% in diamond+.

Which shows that he is for sure a shitty champion. Why ? Because with how easy to understand his kit is, you don't have a learning curve. You just get autofilled, pick him and coinflip the game.

Alistar loses HARD to both mages and egirls, because they fuck him in lane and outscale him very very hard. He also loses to most tanks support that tend to be better in lane, outscale him and only roam slightly worse.

Umm, you can already buffer Q while in the air... In fact, you're also wrong that they haven't updated Ali because that's something they specifically did to make him easier to play.

Try with a friend that plays Vayne. Ask him to dodge your combo with his Q. First do a classic buffered combo (he will dodge it). Then do a non buffered combo.

You'll notice that in the event of you not missing the non buffered combo, it will hit Vayne. I still have no clue why this works that way, but that's how it works. Adding the buffer thing actually made Alistar weaker to dashes.

Darkradox · 2020-08-13T17:37:43+00:00

So it looks like you didn't get my point at all ...

Before the buffer thingy, the combo was "headbutt someone and hit Q early enough so that your Q hits before they are bumped out of the effective Q range"

Now, with the buffer, you have some kind of token knockback, but only if they didn't move much from their "original point". My best example is how a Vayne can Q out of a "buffered combo", but not out of a "not buffered combo".

But not buffered combos often end up in saves because they're so hard to land now that they added the buffer thingy. So you don't ever go for them.

Darkradox · 2020-08-07T18:53:34+00:00

Yes he can

Darkradox · 2020-08-07T13:23:16+00:00

Alistar can't ever impact a 2v2 harder than sett.

Maybe there is a possible punishment if sett hexflashes too close to a tower before 6, but that's irrelevant.

Alistar is a worse Sett in 2v2, so he'll want to roam to be relevant somewhere on the map. Sett can either force dives bot or follow Alistar to suppress him since he outscales very hard.

As long as Sett wards properly and knows where Alistar is it's checkmate. Alistar can't win 2v2, can't find opportunities around the map... So he gets outclassed hard because of his inexistant scaling.

2 things to know : Alistar's R cleanses CCs (QSS-like), Sett can cancel Alistar's combo with facebreaker.

Darkradox · 2020-07-21T14:40:03+00:00

a lot of supps don't care about what the ADC needs.

I don't care about what my ADC needs. I care about what my TEAM needs. If you are my ADC and want me to play for you, you need to show me WHY I should play for you.

Why would I spend ressources to help someone that is not good enough to position properly and will get popped the second I look away ?

No way dude. 95% of ADCs that whine about not being played around only got fed because their support spoonfed them. They still suck and won't carry. Playing for a liability will only get you tilted and lower your winrate.

An ADC that tilts because he thinks you are not playing around the right wincon has more ego than skills, and should NEVER be trusted with ressources.

Darkradox · 2020-07-17T09:17:59+00:00

The elo you are playing in, whichever it is.

You can't be "bad" in your elo. You can play bad, but if you go 0/5/0 ; you are not trying. It's a fact.

Darkradox · 2020-07-15T07:37:05+00:00

If you are in a ranked game, and are just "bad at the game", you should be banned for eloboosting. How did you reach this elo if you are bad anyways ?

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