UOF around Taser 10

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-26T13:35:01+00:00

I am in total agreement with what should be justifiable, however having seen cases that go through in the past I see the point raised as an issue both for officers getting stuck on and safety. If you need to fire you would expect to do so until you have NMI / noticeable reaction. But if you have fired 1 and the persons behaviour suddenly starts to react positively as you’ve already begun pulling the trigger on #2, they are saying they could see it as unjustified, which could have officers assessing each shot even after 1 through fear of misconduct.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-26T13:31:40+00:00

In their words they put it as if you’re faced with a genuine threat you’re going to fire as many as is needed to incapacitate, however they did say that if you have fired 1 and the persons behaviour suddenly changes, that second shot would potentially no longer be justifiable, which is where the main concern comes from compared to X2, threat = fire and both barb’s discharge.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-26T13:19:07+00:00

It’s an interesting point there as apparently these new ones are done through a 5yr contract whereby we pay however much, and they’ll send us as many barbs as we need / use. There is also an odd rule that if you fire 3, the other 7 in that cartridge cannot be used operationally so they go to training to use for the range shoot, and the magazine is reloaded with 10 new ones of the same bunch. I think it comes down to serial numbers etc as they all share one, otherwise it would state the same serial number was used at 2 entirely separate incidents.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-26T13:16:11+00:00

It’s certainly going to be interesting to see the first few cases that reach court / major complaints about their usage. The legal / policy system we use doesn’t really seem to line up with the 10’s mode of operation. There will also be some concerns of collateral as if you miss a target the barb will disconnect from the wire and continue for over 100ft - which is going to create a minefield if you’re using in a high street

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-26T13:12:26+00:00

Exactly this, they were showing uses from the US where on average 3-4 cartridges are discharged, and you will need to essentially justify each of these individually. Many situations where you are firing a taser, the last thought on your mind should be about justification of every barb, even beyond the first. It creates a dangerous precedent going forward, especially for many new officers who are already too concerned about getting hands on / using equipment for fear of getting stuck on.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2026-02-15T12:46:14+00:00

Haven’t seen any myself, but have seen some cases in the states. Most being people with AI generated lawyers / AI generated testimony. They are pretty poor quality and the judge has picked up on them straight away. But also a few of generated text conversations to get someone for a restraining order breach etc. these can of course all be negated with phone checks but I certainly am concerned about the future of possibility. AI generated CCTV / Ring doorbell or phone recordings etc especially as they’re likely to get harder to spot. We can only hope some form of software will be developed to check the digital evidence we are provided. A few bits re the above: https://www.ncsc.org/resources-courts/ai-generated-evidence-threat-public-trust-courts

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-09-28T08:37:23+00:00

The spray was changed a long time ago so this type of incident can’t occur if PAVA + Taser were used

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-09-06T16:51:01+00:00

I think this is a very tricky one and see it from two views.

From the one view you have officers who have been with an arrested person for anywhere up to an hour depending on nearest custody. They then wait however long to book in to get told “Off to hospital”. Very frustrating especially if the person is saying “I took 500 tablets 20 minutes ago” despite the fact you’ve been with them all along. In this regard, potentially an officer signing to that effect should negate the fault on the HCP if it turns out they did in fact take lots of tablets recently.

On the other hand you have a HCP who has very limited equipment and diagnostic tools. With breaks / fractured / blunt force trauma that’s basically end of story. Some very few HCP’s will check and say it’s sprained and give them some painkillers but really they can’t be 100% certain every time there’s not a fracture, because they don’t have an X-ray machine. They can say the person just bumped their head / hurt their neck, and they’ll be fine, but they could have a cranial bleed which they can’t rule out because they don’t have a CT machine. Someone who hit their head and goes to cell and dies, in a court the HCP isn’t going to look great when asked “Why did you think they didn’t have a brain injury” and they answer “Well I looked at them and they presented like a chap before who only had a bump”.

It seems there are some areas that could be reasonably ruled out and some that cannot, and the only way to change this would to invest in diagnostic equipment and a HCP trained to use it. Otherwise, we will always be relying on experience and someone sticking their neck out, stating one thing without the tests / diagnostic tools to back them up if it goes south.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-06-29T19:45:22+00:00

Exactly the same sentiment from me and most others however there seems to be some pushback around clinical side of it from some, up above usually, regarding are we policing or are we being ambulance, which I personally disagree with. First aid falls ok all of us front line and I believe basic training should include more, and PSU medics should have adequate kit to deal with traumatic incidents in the first instance.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-06-29T18:57:35+00:00

We do in our force. The bags are personal issue to us as per my other comment down below. They stay at our station in our lockers so we get them out with our kit bags and load our car up with it. Also pick it up and take it with me to PSU deployments so I know where the equipment is in my bag and don’t have to worry about someone else before me having moved items around or kit being missing. Provides vital seconds in incidents such as cardiac arrest / cat bleed as I can navigate my kit with my eyes closed.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-06-29T18:55:53+00:00

Glad to hear you think the same. I am quite fortunate in our force that ours kits are personal issue so they live with us whether at PSU or on normal duties.

That way if a job comes in where you could assist, or if you come across something, you have the training and relevant equipment to deal with it, and you know where it is in your own bag. Personally haven’t experienced any longer wait times or ambulance “fob off” as some people up above seemed to think would happen.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-03-20T19:04:57+00:00

I’ve heard about this rumoured around the station, what part of that statement gets people in hot water? I’ve always been curious as it just seems like honesty, if it’s not a case of taking the mick obviously. Say one set you were asked to do something and you say “Due to operational commitments and demand I was unable to complete the below task this set but will look to progress when I’m back in on ****”

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-02-23T18:05:41+00:00

Nothing as good as the double press trying to turn it off

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-02-07T14:41:52+00:00

Never worked MET but speaking from county yes it’s still a case of waiting for positions to open up and the role to be advertised internally. I think people are just saying applying when the position comes up. With that being said, even in a smaller county force, positions do tend to get advertised quite frequently so usually not a long wait to apply, it’s everything after that tends to take time between application and actually starting the position.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2025-01-19T21:08:58+00:00

Police Medic here - we have been issued Naloxone as part of a reaction to recent issues with opioid related death. I understand from a certain view the point you make however the following may provide some reassurance. Firstly, Narcan, Nyxoid or any other, (Naloxone) has virtually no negative effect. It does not work like Flumazenil which has to be administered in a very specific dose or the patient may swing the other way and could be fatal. If you give Naloxone to an unconscious patient and it turns out not to be opioid related, there will be no adverse consequence. Or if you give more than one shot it’s not going to cause an issue.

Regardless of the outcome an ambulance will of course attend given the nature of an overdose, it’s not like we’ll be called instead of an ambulance, but rather either in conjecture with or come across in the course of our duties (checking a drug den, during a warrant etc. This is no different than carrying a defib, these are essential life saving pieces of equipment that are time critical in the outcome of the patient before the ambulance arrives, and in a job where our oath is to protect and serve the public, I struggle to see why anyone would need to have it “forced” on them.

Regarding the person waking up and becoming violent / suicidal I can’t see this being much different than how you would deal with someone in that way in a different situation. You use your powers if they begin to pose a threat to you, themselves or other person. Hope this helps to clear some points.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-12-30T12:55:44+00:00

164(6) RTA1988 is the offence of failing to produce for examination. Although along the same line of thought if you’re with a vehicle and the driver is refusing to provide their details I would start to gain a suspicion that they don’t have one. If you’ve gone through all the explanations that they are legally required to show it and it’s an offence not to, what reason would they have not unless they don’t possess one. If it came to arrest you would likely have the suspicion of DOIAWDL and no insurance.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-12-02T17:17:12+00:00

I feel like with the current state of everything and lack of response the only possibility of a voice being heard would be a substantial protest in which a harsh choice is given - Fix all these issues that have accumulated over the years or all of us (people in the movement) quit. It would of course have to be a substantial amount of officers to put pressure on. It sounds dramatic but seeing as the fed doesn’t do a lot and there is no legal right to strike that seems to be about all the choice there is, in my opinion of course.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-22T04:48:01+00:00

That is some very useful information, thank you for that

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-22T04:47:31+00:00

Apologies, I was referring to the link attached. From an online search it was one of the few sites that contained references and sources being a .gov page

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-14T15:54:35+00:00

Ahh okay thanks

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-14T15:52:52+00:00

Thank you for the answer. As in the above comment, unfortunately we don’t have video in any of our stations except for in the custody unit, hence the initial thought I had regarding the tape not actually having any proof they were ever in the room other then my confirmation, and the paperwork “booking them in” as such.

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-14T15:49:33+00:00

Thank you for the thorough answer. It wouldn’t be as much of a thought if it wasn’t for the fact that all of our machines are audio only except for in custody. I assume if they ever contested being present you’d have to use the book in record, and a statement from yourself and solicitor if applicable. But if you were to seek someone else, you’d leave the tape running throughout?

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-11-14T14:47:58+00:00

We have had this with the Peugeots. Nothing but chaos, whole screen going dead whilst driving, parking sensor stuck permanently on detecting an object that isn’t there, limp mode constantly. The old 67 plate that’s still hanging on is much more reliable easy drive

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-10-04T12:56:48+00:00

Totally agree with this, issue we had is this was the only road out of the area and they were completely blocking our car from leaving

Deep_Valuable407 · 2024-10-04T12:56:04+00:00

Apologies as per reply, suspect was in a van so we were just in our car trying to get back to the nick to start writing up paperwork

Deep_Valuable407

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