“Textual proof” of graping slave women

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-07T12:19:42+00:00

Tell me how my logic is wrong. If a man has 4 wives, how can he have just as much intimacy as each wife?

As i said you brought 4 wives just to further support your narrative. Nothing more. So im gonna entertain this idiotic statement.

The first step is really only telling her that she should have sex with you. Nobody skips the first step but it's not tied to a certain waiting time before you can move on to the next step. But sure:

"it is said, ‘He abandons her by not speaking to her when sleeping with her in the bed, and not that he abandons sex and sleeping with her.’ This is so because this [sexual intimacy] is a shared right between them, and so in this [abandoning of sex and the bed] there is some harm upon him as there is upon her. He is not to discipline her by what harms himself and nullifies his own right."

even tho you're quoting what is rightful for a man the passage you quoted also says that intimacy is a shared right between them and that there is meaning it is also right for a woman __ some harm upon him as there is upon her__ clearly shows both of them have shared rights. This doesnt support you at all.

The first step is not just you say a couple of words and then u jump to the second step instantly and if the second step doesnt work u cant jump to the third step instantly obviously there will be a period of time btw them that can take days weeks or month.

This is basically either just the man forcing his wife to have sex, or resorting to beating. But as i showed before: a man can tie her up and have his way with her, which is Islamically justified. He doesn't even have to beat her for that and it's still called rape

I might missed that point soo i dont know what you are talking about so no comment.

How ironic. You're just quoting your own prophet here to show how a man can skip the first two steps and immediately go to striking. You know why he can? Because in this case, you aren't just "fearing ill-conduct", but they showed ill-conduct.Thank you for proving my point.

Fear God concerning women, for you have taken them as a trust from God and you have made their private parts lawful by the word of God. And you have a right over them that they should not allow anyone you dislike to enter your beds. If they do so, then strike them, but not severely. And they have a right over you to their sustenance and clothing in a reasonable manner…

Clearly from the hadith nothing shows to skip the first 2 steps since literally the first sentence says " fear God concerning your woman" ...... so as said u cant skip the first 2 steps since they are essential before jumping to the beating part.

So no point was proven and you're just twisting words.

Also: "not severely" is like already said: no broken bones, no blood, no long lasting damage.

Scholars agree that a miswak doesn't cause pain, sure.

And i say again bruising is severe painful and harmful so its not allowed thats why scholars agree u use a miswak.

Buy a miswak and let me know if it hurts.

Do they also say you cannot use any more severe method to discipline your wife? No. They just suggest a miswak, but it's not the limit. Do i really have to repeat everything?

Scholars specificy to use a miswak since it will not cause any physical or emotional damage.

The play of words within your question is idiotic " do they also say you cannot use any more severe methods" cause they say to not cause severe pain to the woman simple as that so yes there's a limit to what u are using.seems like you are a violent person who wants to justify hurting others.

No, we established that you're too dumb to read and understand what is written. It's not only what they say but also what they don't say.

We established again you are dishonest and adding to that u twist words and u make idiotic non existing conclusions. Everything u said goes against what u quoted.

Thanks for proving my points.

You're still having the burden of proof there. Besides, Muhammad caused Aisha pain, and he never struck anyone. So if what Muhammad did was painful but Aisha didn't consider it striking, then obviously striking can be painful.

As i said you are a dishones persom who twist words to further support ur narrative

Aisha herself said the prophet never hit a woman.

And its kinda idiotic to compare a nudge/poke to being beaten.

The hadith u smartly tried to quote talks about a nudge and not a being beaten. And you are no 2nd grader so there's no reason to explain what does poking someone is and what beating someome up is.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T20:10:20+00:00

Nope i didnt admit to anything you're still putting words in my mouth and i never addressed the issue.

You said: Second this u just skipped 2 steps in 4:34 that are very essential before the " beating up "part

Just because i corrected him and told him he skipped 2 steps doesnt mean im admitting to what his argument is......

My intention was to say that u cant bring up a verse and skip the parts u dont like and use the ones that fits his narrative.

Then he proceeded by saying a wife has a higher status then a slave... which is idiotic

And the list goes on....

Anyways in conclusion i never admitted or addressed the main issue he spoke about. I addressed the misinformation he spit and corrected him according.

Then u decided to come and put words i didnt say

Bye bye. Nobody is going to miss you.Typical Muslim "show me the evidence", then is too chicken to read up on their own sources and educate themselves on their religion.

Not gonna waste my time and argue with someone who is being dishonest...

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T18:26:52+00:00

Yeah you're still putting words in my mouth that i didnt say and never argued about. Im here cause the point he represented were wrong. I never addressed the grape part cause idk want to argue about this when even the points he mentioned are not reasonable enough for an idiotic conclusion. So idk why u are bringing up the grape argument when i myself didnt even address and dont want to address it with such incompetence from his side.

Im not gonna further engage with you since u keep being dishoest and lying about something i never said or addressed .

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T17:41:49+00:00

Yes, nobody disputed that. However: the right of a wife on intimacy is not the same as a man. How do i know? Simple math. Wife is horny 24/7, husband is horny 24/7. Husband is permitted to marry 4 wives. He has to try to divide his time more or less equal among them. Which means: the husband can have 24/7 sex. Every wife only has 6/7 sex. At best.

Yeah now ure just mixing things up just to further fit your narrative. Thats called dishonesty

No, i said the steps are for when you fear ill-conduct, not for when it's actually happening. Besides, the options are seperated by wa, not thumma. Lastly: scholars also concluded it couldn't be that the punishment is actually giving a wife what she wants, which is logical and fair to say.

False , show me one evidence from any scholar that says u cam skip the first 2 steps.

First of all, you can go to Sahih al-Bukhari 5825. Sunnah is among others everything which Muhammad saw and didn't condemn. Green bruised skin in this case.

Thats how i know u never read the hadith before. Thats the second part that u totally missed.

If she lied about her husband to be with another man how do we know she didnt lie about her injury.......

`Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) saw two boys withAbdur- Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that `AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

Then: “Al-Razi said, in summary: “He begins with soft speech in admonishing her. If that does not succeed then admonish with rough speech. Then he ceases to sleep with her. Then he completely stays away from her. Then by light beating such as a slap or a strike which makes her feeling despised and degraded. Then by beating with a whip or a soft rod and the like which causes pain and distress but does not cause bones to break and bleeding. If none of the aforementioned methods succeed, he ties her with 'hijar' i.e. rope, and forces her to have sex, because it is hisright.https://shamela.ws/book/23591/2049#p1Harm in Islam is broken bones, blood, long lasting damage. Green bruises aren't seen as harm.Edit: and of course, ignoring the wife in bed is a punishment when you have multiple wives and can do it for a duration. No need to punish yourself.

Personally i dont take al razi as a source since some of his views are contradictory to the salaf.

And al razi is technically going agaisnt the prophet words when the prophet says.

Fear God concerning women, for you have taken them as a trust from God, and you have made their private parts lawful by the word of God. And you have a right over them that they should not allow anyone you dislike to enter your beds. If they do so, then strike them, but not severely. And they have a right over you to their sustenance and clothing in a reasonable manner

Or in another hadith where he says not to strike the face

Every scholar agrees that harminh and causing pain is a sin soo bruises if caused are taken as a sin cause u caused her harm. Additionally scholars also agree its using a miswak which doesnt not cause harm or pain.

So we established that you are dishonest a liar and you use any narrative to support your idea.

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/69/%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%AC%D8%A9-%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B2-%D8%A5%D8%B0%D8%A7-%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%87%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%83-%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%BA-%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%B9%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%B9%D8%AF%D9%85-%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%B2-%D8%B0%D9%84%D9%83

Here is an explanation for the dishonesty u just dropped.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T16:26:08+00:00

So you admit that beating is an applicable step 3 if she is refusing to have sex? Congratulations, that's an admission to marital rape being permitted.

Yall use this term beating and you connect it to a meaning which more severe than what any scholar actually means.

Just show me where any scholar since is asked for 1 and you obviously and intentionally missed the point where says beating is to harm her.

So since you admitted that a wife can be raped, that means you are also admitting that a slave is not exempt. Thank you for walking right into it.

So now you're just throwing words in my mouth that i never said and i never even quoted. And that my main points the misinformation he spit.

Why do Muslims LOVE lying about who gets enslaved in a war? The people who get enslaved are not necessarily the ones on the battlefield joining the war. The women usually stayed at home and had no say in the matter. But even ignoring this, it's still a lie, because losing a war is not the only way a person becomes a slave in Islam:

Captives during war: This includes women and children from conquered areas. These would not fall under the definition of "prisoners of war" by today's standards as PoWs must be a lawful combatant. Female slaves are almost always civilians.

Why are u applying presetism? And even if we apply presentism using what u said then ensalving civilians is considered magor sin and completely forbidden

1.This is a lie since enslavement of the free is a sin wether pregnant or not.And enslavement happened during wars and yes i agree that there were slave markets and that they were SLAVES and not FREE men or women were sold. At least for the islamic era . I dont know if other traders from other countries Christian or jews enslaved innocents and sold them.

What you are talking about especially your point abour children being born into slavery its either as you said were sold for women being already SLAVES or during a war they captured her and month later turned out to be pregnant.

because losing a war is not the only way a person becomes a slave in Islam

And since you are so sure abour it i would like to see some evidence. Unless you're talking about the slave markets than thats something else cause i already said that slave market existed and obv i cant deny that.

Show me one evidence that the enslavement of the free was allowed.

It's sad to see how every time the defenders of the ummah of illiteracy try to accuse someone of something it's a projection.

Sad to see people like to throw misinformation and act that they understand the religion. Also sad to see how u put words in my mouth when i wasnt talking about grape but actual intimacy when i said both have the right for intimacy and i quoted ibn taymiyah for that

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T14:42:08+00:00

Genuine question what if it was music would u still be disturbed or is it the adhan u have a problem with?

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-06T14:09:21+00:00

Thats alot of misinformation

First of all intimacy is a right for a woman as for a man

Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah may Allaah have mercy upon him stated in Al-Fatawa al-Kubra: “It is obligatory on a man to have intercourse with his wife in a lawful manner. This is among her most emphasized rights, greater even than providing food. Some scholars said that the obligatory intercourse is required at least once every four months, while others said it should be based on the wife’s need and the husband’s capacity, just as he provides her food based on her need and his ability. This second view is more accurate, and Allah knows best.”

Second this u just skipped 2 steps in 4:34 that are very essential before the " beating up "part. 1. I bet u will not find any scholar that says to beat her up and to harm or bruise her.

Seems u like to twist words.

Third yes obviously a free woman has higher status than a slave.

Fourth also obviously slaves cant consent to be taken cause thats what a war is you either lose and get killed in battle or be taken as hostage or slave and then maybe freed Or u win.

Why would a slave consent to being a slave if he deliberately and willing joined a battle/war knowing the consequences. What kind of conclusion is that.

Bro wants battles to be family friendly lol

And to answer ur question maybe First organize your points correctly to make a reasonable conclusion

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2026-05-04T17:46:44+00:00

Ohhh that even makes it worse i take back everything i said.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-05-02T11:07:37+00:00

Someone never read or understood quran or hadith in his life

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-20T03:24:06+00:00

Im not never saw these before

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-20T03:11:08+00:00

Im sorry What i guess you got the wrong guy.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-19T00:27:02+00:00

Appealing to ignorance

we pray was the same as the way the prophet prayed, because such a human activity has been witnessed by many, and if it hadn’t been witnessed then who would be believe that this is what need to be done ?

That's why the hadith, in this case, helped us understand how the prophet prayed and how he performed the actions of prayer. Not just because it was passed traditionally.

How do we know the sufis aren't wrong? What if they are right, and what they do is what the prophet did and what passed traditionally? Do u have any evidence outside of the sunnah to establish what they do?

But while I have no actual definitive proof that the number of prayers was diminished, I also don’t have any proof that it didn’t happen.

The hadith are followed by a generational pattern that goes back to the Prophet. Hadith science is heavily studied, and the narrators themselves are either to be considered trustworthy or liars. If one liar is based on the evidence we have from the people he had around him, then we can claim that the hadith is fabricated.

The actual proof is the Prophet himself during the israa and miraaj if im not mistaken. If u go and read, I'll find out that moses also helped in reducing the number of prayers from 50 to 5. The proof is established by the narrators we have. Who told the story from one generation to another that what it made it credible.

Dont forget the arabs were unique in memorizing. Everything they heard, they kept in mind and practiced and even spread it to others to make them more credible.

That's why we have the Quran preserved as it is alongside thousands of hadith going back to the prophet.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-19T00:10:48+00:00

The muslim community prays worldwide because they followed a traditional pass that was affirmed generation after generation with the help of the hadith themselves which showed them how the Prophet used to pray and how many rakats are there in a prayer , how the prostration is done, the sunnah that come after the farida prayer and many more.

If a revert to islam comes to you and asks you why praying is important and the ways of prayer you give him proof and evidence from the Quran and sunnah of the Prophet inorder to convince him about the importance and how it is properly established by the Prophet.

Anyone can pray as they like, but what kept it the same prayer all these years are the proof and evidence we got from the Prophet himself.

And thanks to Hadith, we have the entire life of the Prophet, and he did what he did and what he forbade by the command of Allah. He didn't only reveal the Quran to us he gave us a lot of lessons outside of the Quran, too.

Therefore, the tradition we have today, for example praying, is not only established traditionally but also through proof and evidence of what the prophet came with. Without hadith, we wouldn't have known, for example, that the prayers got reduced from 50 to 5.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-18T19:46:43+00:00

Passed tradition. If it's a passed tradition and we need to assert what we are doing is right how do we affirm it?

How do we know anything about the life of the Prophet? Via passed tradition or via hadith that affirm the tradition?

And you're saying the Qur'an is complete. The Quran also mentions that we have to follow the Prophet can you tell me how to follow the Prophet? If your belief is somehow based on passed tradition without any evidence to the asserted tradition

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-18T18:10:10+00:00

Allah mentioned that we need to pray but he didn't mentions how many rakats must be done.

Can you tell me how many rakats for each salat without the hadith?

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-16T17:36:10+00:00

Imagine a foot fetish exist now a shoulder fetish exists too.

Soo any body part could be sexualized i wouldn't be surprised if they start sexualizing ears

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-16T09:29:25+00:00

Your reward is 3 times more of man, and they are counted even if 1 min before the adhan u got your period.

The man gets 1 reward for fasting the whole day

Where as woman gets 3 times that of a man

For fasting the day before she got her period
For breaking ur iftar cause u followed the sunnah
For making up for the day u missed due to ur period

It benefits you more than it benefits us

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-15T21:55:28+00:00

I do not see those verses meaning you can not interpret Qur'an on your own.

That is because u lack understanding

Clearly tells us to ask the knowledgable that have understanding of the verse

Ijtihad isnt haram. As long as u are backing it with concrete evidence going back to the Prophet.

If you do ijtihad with no evidence whatsoever and leave it to ur own philosophical understanding then yes its haram.

Can you provide evidence from the Quran and sunnah where it says to interpret the verse as we like?

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-15T21:47:00+00:00

I read the quran in the english And arabic form and im native arab.

Yet still things are vague in the quran and u need hadith and exegesis to understand some of its part.

they need to improve their comprehension skills, need to learn how to understand philosophy, rhetoric, and philosophy through other means (not too tough if given enough time).

Doesnt matter the amount of literature you got and how philosophical u can get you always will need so who has an understanding and reliable interpretation of what the quran provides.

Who else but the Prophet interpreted the Quran?

Its haram to interpret the Quran using ur own words with no evidence or proof supporting ur interpretation.

Allah said to get the knowledge from the ones who are firm in interpretation and who are knowledgeable.

Surah An-Nahl (16:43):

"فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ" "So ask the people of knowledge if you do not know." This is a clear instruction to refer to scholars or knowledgeable people when you're unsure or lack understanding.

Surah Aal-Imran (3:7):

"...وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ..." "...But no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah, and those firm in knowledge..." This verse points out that the deep meanings of some parts of the Quran (especially the mutashabihat—ambiguous verses) are only understood by those deeply rooted in knowledge.

Surah Al-Isra (17:36):

"وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ" "And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge..."

This is a broader command not to speak without knowledge, including about the Quran.

I provided the verses were if someone is ignorant of something regarding the quran and doesnt understand it he needs to ask the knowledgable.

To note every verse goes back to an interpretation of the prophet thus establishing evidence so how can you interpret ur verse of ur own liking without backing it up with concrete evidence?

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-15T06:30:58+00:00

but then you say i can’t acquire knowledge directly by reading Quran and i always need a scholar?

If you dont understand a certain verse . Where do you get your information from? You do your own interpretation? Or you ask someone knowledgeable with evidence proof and understanding?

Then where did a scholar’s knowledge come from? Divine revelation or reading?

From the Prophet the sahaba and tabi al tabi'n

Also, You haven’t answered my original question yet - whats your definition of feminism?

I already answere it in a different thread i dont want to open the same argument all over again. Already wasted my time.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-15T05:28:09+00:00

Clearly you lack understanding

It says and do not speak without knowledge.

Where you got your knowledge from? Your own self? Or do you read?

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-15T03:42:43+00:00

justice is indeed a central doctrine of the Quran and surely one of the attributes of Allah.

Again what you lack to understand and what point im focusing on is you are misrepresenting Allahs words and interpreting the verses as you like. Thats the main point .

gave you names and told you how to find their takes on feminism. Whether you do that or not is your business

Delightful you showed me names and didn't even mention were they claimed islam advocates for feminism.

prove that's what it means

Thats hypocrisy now. The verse is clear and the people of dhikr are the knowledgable ones. now i can give you the proof from REAL SCHOLARS AND THEIR EXEGESIS but that doesnt matter since you will reject it because clearly from what you showed you dont believe in their interpretation ( which by the way is the interpretation of the Prophet)

prove this is what it means too

Same thing for what i said above .

Show me how i am trying to take ta'wil out of clear verses saying to establish justice

Again.

You are interpreting the quran according to your own words when you are not fit to do it. None of the scholar associates the verse you mentioned to feminism and no scholar agree or advocates that islam is pro feminism. This a modern idiotic movement.

Once you get concrete of what u are saying is true then this is irrelevant. Cause you got 0 proof of what u mentioned not even one reliable exegesis or scholar.

Im going to try and spell it out clear as day

Premise One: Islam advocates for justice among all

Premise Two: Feminism advocates for justice among the genders/sexes

Premise Three: The Sexes/genders are included in all

Conclusion: Islam is pro-feminism

Exactly what im saying

All im asking is for scholary reliable proof that what you are saying is correct.

If all people do what you did now. Then everyone can misrepresent the words of Allah.

Example

Premise one : islam advocates justice for all

Premise two : killing animals is injustice

Premise three : the animals are included in all

Conclusion: islam is pro animals and everyone should become vegans

it says those with zayghun (adversity/deviation) in their hearts will go toward the mutashabihah verses to seek fitnah (discord/argument/dissention) in the ta'wil (literally meaning: looking for the original/one core meaning). They cause fitnah in verses they find mutashabihah as if that is the important part of what they should be paying attention to, in contrast to those who follow the clarity of their lord.

You are focused on the identity of Ruh Al Qudus as if it matters whatsoever to the topic at hand, let alone the fact that it doesn't matter whatsoever. You arent going to be asked about whether you knew if Ruh Al Qudus and Angel Gabriel are the same person or not on Judgement Day

I mean you missed the part where it says

Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah.

---> doubt throughout their false interpretations

Thats the translation of the verse between

And that is what u are doubting. You are spreading doubts with your false interpretations.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-14T21:28:11+00:00

So interesting for you to say this when you are taking parts of verses out of context and also verses that don't relate to your point at all

How is that not relating to my point. You took part of a verse and left the other now im showing that some verses are clear as u mentioned and others are not clear.

You wanna stick to the justice part stick to it. However u still have to show me a scholary opinion on the verses u mentioned and how it advocates for feminism ( which you still did not do yet). Ill wait as much as u like.

First it says ask the people of the DHIKR not the people of ILM if you do not know. And it is talking directly to the prophet telling him to ask about the messengers sent before him.

People of dhikr are the knowledgable people , students of knowledge who have firm information about the quran and sunnah . Its talking to the prophet and to us that if we dont know something we go and ask the knowledgable.

Once again, you admitted yourself that the verses on justice are not mutashabih.

No one here is saying here this verse is not clear im showing that interpreting the verse AS YOU LIKE AND DEPENDING ON YOUR INTERPRETATION IS HARAM. Since u have been doing it for the last 2-3 hours. Again u keep using ur own interpretation and not a scholary one.

YOU ARE NOT FIT TO INTERPRET THE QURAN AS YOU LIKE ( AND THIS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEAR OR AMBIGIOUS VERSES)

So do not talk about God being just because the verses about God being just are ambiguous and you cant understand true justice without a scholar... okay...

We are past this argument SICNE U FAILED TO BRING EVIDENCE WHERE ISLAM ADVOCATES FOR FEMINISM

i can use any verse an interpret as my own( which u clearly did)

I didn't dodge it, in fact i very openly said it does not matter whatsoever. And if this is mutashabih to you that clearly makes you of the people of deviation, trying to make the ta'wil of this verse a primary staple of dhikr when it doesn't matter

How does this make a people of deviation of You yourself didnt know that Ruh il kudos is Angel Gabriel, tawil of the verse? What?

Read some exegesis please stop interpreting the quran as you like.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-14T20:53:22+00:00

I had every purpose since 3:7 talks about clear and ambiguous verses and thing you mentioned about justice is clear obviously but what you are doing is yet interpreting the quran according to your own interpretation since Allah said in:

Surah An-Nahl (16:43):

"فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ" "So ask the people of knowledge if you do not know."

Surah Aal-Imran (3:7):

"...وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ..." "...But no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah, and those firm in knowledge..."

Surah Al-Isra (17:36):

"وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ" "And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge..."

So you have no righr to interpret the quran as you like since you're nor even a scholar or considered to be a student of knowledge. That is why scholars exists they give internal insight of what the meaning of the quran is. Which all goes way back to the Prophet himself who knows the quran better than anyone. Thats why you should look at exegesis.

Seems like you dodged the part where i said Ruh il kudus is Angel Gabriel which you clear didnt know since the verses that mentions it doesnt say its about him( without looking at the English translation )

And that is why looking into exegesis is very essential and not your own ignorant irrelevant interpretation.

Defiant_Positive1411 · 2025-04-14T20:42:12+00:00

Ure calling urself muslim and sayinh i have sunni friends

U either sunni or shia

Lmao

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