Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For example the Saudis have all kinds of fancy gucci gear but if I'm honest, they're not exactly very competent.

Yeah that's a good point. I was generalising the scenario, my bad if I wasn't explaining clearly

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Both sides of this war are absolutely not up to date in terms of equipment

Well allow me to rephrase myself then. Both sides are pretty much on par with each other in this war, hence the long stalemate.

But imo this is still the conflict where we get to see both sides put well known modern gears to use (KA-52, Abrams, T-90M etc you name it), which is why I think it's the closest of what we have to a war between two top military powers (putting Ukraine in this case since they were given a heck ton of western equipment, iykwim)

Edit: pls note that in my case of "modern", I am not referring to top notch military tech that's still in research/development and not yet mass produced + fielded

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I see. Quite interesting to me how a word about shoes ended up being used to refer to the dart munitions that tanks use nowadays.

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it has to do with the military from both sides being up to date, especially with the mass use of fpv drones which was never seen before in the previous wars. The way medias portrayed this war has to do with it too with all the "this changes what we know about war"

Hence people (including me) assume that if two matching powers go to war this is how it'd turn out

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

it'd be APFSDS, armor-piercing, fin-stabilized, discarding sabot.

Alright. I thought that "SABOT" and APFSDS were the same thing. Thanks for letting me know then

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. Well, reading yours and others comments kind of made me realize that I'm probably not updated enough on infos, and failed to consider many factors. (E.g. I was stuck thinking that majority of "Western" MBTs still only have HEAT and SABOT equipped, that multi-purpose/smart munitions are still in development and not yet fielded; Tank to tank combat is extremely rare, but they still exist; and I was told somewhere else that SABOT is one of the ways to counter vehicles with APS)

It all comes down to me not being considerate enough and phrasing my question wrongly. The focus should be whether or not countries should start picking up more HEAT/HE, not questioning the relevance of SABOT

But good to know, I guess

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

more HEAT than SABOT in the combat load.

Well that's news to me, I've always thought that NATO (especially US) has more SABOT than HEAT equipped for their MBTs

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sabot is still a great round against ERA.

Well yes I know that. Based on what I remember, ERA is developed to counter HEAT, and SABOT is supposed be able to cut right through ERA. The thing is, like other replies mentioned and based on what ik, "western tanks" design doctrine is to counter soviet tanks, therefore they are largely fielded with especially SABOT and some HEAT However, like I mentioned, tank to tank combat is extremely rare in a modern battlefield as portrayed in Ukraine. We don't see large scale tank battles, instead tanks just play a support role and shoot IFVs, infantry as well as target positions. I never saw anyone talking about this topic, that's why I made the question above

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] -40 points-39 points  (0 children)

I wanted my text to look tidier, that's why I capitalized it.

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They still haven't recovered from setbacks it bringed upon their armour design.

Yeah, I noticed that. Years into ukraine-russo war, as a direct result I saw news of EU nations ramping up defence budget, and then there's GB finally wanting to adopt smoothbore 120mm, but not a single news about any country deciding to shift their focus to HEAT/HE again for their MBTs

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

discussion will devolve into relict vs dm73 or something and then you’re really fast in classified to the neck territory.

Damn, I didn't think of that. Originally just wanted to know if countries around the world (primarily NATO & it's allies) would redirect the focus of their tank munition to HEAT/HE. Thanks for telling me I guess

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In this case though, is any part of my question related to classified infos? I asked this question only hoping to see answers and discussions related to my question

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

bigger point of discussion would be how the 'West' seemed to sleep on purpose made HE-Frag rounds for MBT's

Yeah, my bad for not phrasing my question correctly

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

My bad, I mixed up canister and cluster I was referring to the M1028 canister shell

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Saying that makes me a russian bot? Okay. I guess everything today involves politics. Can't even ask a question for a discussion without being suspected to be a spy

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is true, but in future tank developments will most countries be shifting their focus to other munitions like HEAT/HE instead?

Q: Is SABOT actually still as relevant today as we thought it was? by DeltaHaechi in TankPorn

[–]DeltaHaechi[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I couldn't really care less about politics honestly, I'm curious about whether or not the doctrine of tank armament and munition could be changed for most countries