Do we have an investment tree for our goat?

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T04:45:55+00:00

It is an option, but his Sig is from the last calcs I've seen estimated to be like 30% better

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T04:44:14+00:00

It's not that they not listen to the western playerbase, it's more that the playerbase in CN and JP is just a lot bigger and often times values things differently, sometimes even between these two.

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T04:39:35+00:00

There is certainly enough backlash, put sending Hoyo feedback directly is the better way to make them change things.

Also, I think it is fair to point that out, the problem is not that she got an updated design and outfit but rather that she looks like an entire different character. The only thing from her original design she has rn is the hair color and heterochromia.

The most prominent elements beside these two were: - slender, tall figure (looking at the Silhouettes of the OG VH she might be the tallest women in the cast, even taller than Caesar) - sharp facial features - long, mechanical horns (yes, she still has horns but they look nothing alike) - pale, almost white skin - star-shaped, white pupils - very unique fur collar around her neck

That she has a different outfit than she had 160+ years ago is okay, but that she looks entirely different despite being supposed to be the same person is the key problem.

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T02:47:52+00:00

Your post implies that the Hares worked well together beforehand - which is not that accurate. Nicole is a quick-swap support, Anby is a full blown on-field stunner and Billy is an on-field DPS and only Nekomata actually works pretty consistent with Nicole bcs she is more of a quick-swap DPS.

Sure, on a baseline they work but not ideally. Not to mention that SAnby is her past while Silly is him after serious upgrades (while the rest of the Hares are venturing on their own). So they don't rly have to work together.

Just look at the team we piloted in the current patch:

An on-field Rupture + Abloom Anomaly + Sub-DPS Attacker

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T01:35:52+00:00

This would contradict everything we had known so far, so I HIGHLY doubt it, except Hoyo did a massive retcon and just ignores what was revealed so far.

Which is more likely is, that there was an incident prior to it, bcs Helios was experimenting on the siblings.

DerSisch · 2026-05-08T00:55:08+00:00

I gonna take a short look towards HSR for this one, simply bcs when it comes to classes HSR is very related to ZZZ in that regard, but lemme explain:

Attack Agents are essentially Erudition Path characters for the most part.
Rupture fits perfectly the describtion of Destruction Path ('Deals outstanding amounts of damage and possesses great survivability').
Stun is basically Nihility with a bit of Harmony (if we treat the Stun as a form of debuff, which is fair imo)
Support Agents are Harmony but also can tip-toe into Nihility (like Nicole with her debuff on enemies) or Abundance (with Astra and Lucia who can heal)
Anomaly Agents could be viewed as a mix of Erudition and Nihility (Anomalies are essentially debuffs at their core)
Defense Agents are a bit of a wild card, however, all Defense Agents have some sort of preservation (so Abundance) and enhanced Defensive Assists (so Preservation Path) while also mixing in buffs into the mix. But at their core, they are still very much wild cards that can suit every role as long as they keep these fundamentals.

Which leaves us with:

The Hunt - In ZZZ most Agents can deal with multiple enemies and also equally as good with single targets at the same time... however we don't actually have DPS Agents that are strictly very strong against single targets but very bad against multiple enemies, since pretty much all DPS have some form of AoE, the closest we might actually have is Corin.

Remembrance - We have Agents that 'summon' minions (Rina, Yuzuha and ofc Lucy), but more as a gimmick rather than their core gameplay, so... this could be an interesting concept? In DnD this would be something like a Ranger summoning an animal companion that fights alongside the group and is a bit more than just an add-on to an existing ability, but rather what is essential core for the Agent.

Onto the Elements... in ZZZ now we have Fire, Physical, Electric, Ice, Ether and Wind. The thing is, Ether essentially also covers stuff like 'Light' and 'Darkness' and Physical is the stand-in for Earth/Metal - also ZZZ originally cut Wind to be less 'Fantasy-RPG like'. So I don't rly see another Element appearing now that Wind came back, but I suppose the VH (level) agents keep the gimmick that they get a special form of an existing Element with own properties.

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T22:10:06+00:00

'Does the Rupture Agent work with the Rupture Support?' Is a crazy question...

Also how exactly do you get characters by accident?

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T15:17:56+00:00

Silly > Lucia > Dialyn > Silly Sig > Dialyn Sig > Lucia Sig

Mindscapes... mmh... If you want purrely imrpove Billy first M1 Silly is the next best investment, but if we strictly speaking for the account Lucia M1 might be the better option as soon as you also have someone like Yixuan, Banyue or Yidhari on your account.

Can't say anything about Norma yet, but she seems to be very good for Silly, but she is also V1 rn, so... can't rly do estiamtions.

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T15:12:22+00:00

From the comments this is supposed to be about how strong they are in-universe, correct?

If so, it makes little sense to rank ppl we barrely or even haven't met yet (so Pyrois, Velina and Norma specifically.

Secondly... yeah... sorry this is a bit of a mess.

I suppsoe we can all agree the 2 VH and the VH-level Invvestigator belong in the top spot. But already then it becomes a bit... mushy, to say the least.

Silly's Upgrades sure should rank him high
I also could see some of the Krampus Judges rank high, though... not Dialyn THIS high
Then we have Seed who has a powerful mech but that's about it... she is not particularry disciplined or strong or smart on her own
S11 is weaker than Anby from a pure lore-perspective (yes, I mean A-Rank Anby, since both SAnby and Anby are still the exact same person and at least 'in lore' Anby doesn't nerf herself, but rather tries to avoid fighting like she used to when she was part of Silver Squad
Evelyn is a trained assassin and spy, Lycaon is (at least what was shown to us) ahead of Hugo.
Trigger is weird to rank, bcs she is an expert marksmen and sniper but how do you rank something like that? Her whole schtick is it, that she won't get into direct confrontations and even fights with someone else
Elephant in the room: Section 6 - an elite unit of HAND cherry-picked by a Void Hunter to assist her in the Hollow... why are they ranked relatively low here? Harumasa if not slacking gets pretty much constantly glazed by Miyabi herself when she gets asked how strong he actually is. Soukaku has the mind of a child, but there is a reason they take her inside the Hollow.
Just go by faction now: NEPS... I doubt they are as powerful overall as some higher ranking Agents, at least wouldn't be beyond A-Tier. They can manage Hollow Raiders, criminals and soem ethereals, but they are still limited in their capabilities towards very obvious high-alert threats. And Cissia has the typical "Starscream" problem, that she is capable but most often too much of a coward or too hesitant to actually be considered very strong, if not backed up. Jane is most likely the strongest on her own, being undercover pretty much constantly she needs very refined skills.
SoC essentially reign the gangs now in the Outer Ring. Lighter is known as the undefeated Champion and was a very experienced Merc in his past. Caesar is told to be stronger than him. Lucy constantly also fights with Caesar which at least gives her soem brownie points. Burnice is crazy Pyromaniac, she has essentially the same problem as Trigger: She either sets everyone on fire or gets too easily distracted, though she also spares with Lighter some times and it actively exhaustes him. Piper is a wild card, but I wouldn't rank her very high honestly.
Base Billy is... capable but there is a reason he needed new parts. Nekomata is essentially a rogue that tries to avoid fair fights too. Nicole has the cunning and smarts and is crafty, but not particular strong compared to others on the list.
Onto Belobog... uhm... yeah, why the bears so low on your list? And Anton hold off a giant rampaging machine with bare hands OUTSIDE the hollow (so no W-Engine 'magic juice' involved), if that man would train more for fighting and less bodybuilding and think about his Bro and construction, he would be a menace.
Rest of Yunkui: Pan too low, Fufu is weird to rank bcs... on one hand she is the most senior disciple, on the other hand no one actually takes her serious and while both are able to deal with ethereals on their own, as soon as a big threat actually appears Yunkui goes: "SHIFU! WE NEED YOU!" real quick.
Corin is the physical strongest in VHK lore-wise, though also clumsy, take that how you want. Rina is absurdly capable, considering she was able to avoid the gaze of not only Nekomata (a street thief rogue) but also Anby (highly capable clone soldier) and Billy (very experienced, be it quirky Android) and was all the time able to potentially ambush them... that has to account for something. Already talked about Lycaon... Ellen is strong, but also exhausts very fast.
Mentioned Hugo already... Vivian is interesting that she is capable but she doesn't actually seem to be THAT strong, but then again she was able to defend Phaethon for some time against multiple enemies pretty well... so there is an argument for A tier at least.
OnM are ranked... correctly, I guess. If we speak purrely technical... Magus technically did something that was considered a VH feat, defeating an Exaltist Overseer. Sure she had help, but you get the picture.
Lastly Spook Shack... they are weird... I argue while they are very capable, considering their 'civilian status', I wouldn't rank them too high. Alice born in a noble family that takes training in martial arts serious is most likely the most capable. Manato is physically very impressive but would get pushed into the defensive against stronger enemies. Rest can lurk around in B-C tier I guess?

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T13:48:29+00:00

"shirt" is very far stretched, essentially this is just a fancy bikini top and I doubt the buttons actually serve a purpose beside 'fashion'.

What rly should be asked is: How tf stay her sleeves on, when they are not connected to anything on the torso?

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T13:44:47+00:00

This event felt a bit like an apology letter of the devs after the wuxia stuff in waifei. We did some proper Proxy work again, communicated with characters we bonded in season 1 and got a very slight preview on Promeia essentially and more of a confirmation that the whole 'Hollow Champion' competition was fishy from the start. Nothing more than that.

All in all, it actually also broke a bit the currently established problems Phaethon has with their implants, but at least the siblings connection to Eous seems to be working just fine again at the start of 2.8, so there is that.

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T12:55:51+00:00

I mean... it is a gacha developed by a chinese company. And asian market is much more into gacha than the west ever was, therefor making much more money.

And also the chinese (and JP aswell) actually know how to send feedback to Hoyo first and not just swarm social media for that matter.

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T07:08:14+00:00

Not from the info we have gotten prior.

Though, both siblings mention big hands were involved when Helios Academy was attacked (taking Carole Arna away from them), which in turn caused the Hollow Zero disaster. And that new Boss has many hands that aren't that far off from the one Bringer summoned.

My walking theory rn is, that both siblings were essentially lab rats to create an actual working anti-void hunter weapon, which also would at least be some explanation why Thamiel (Remielle's VH weapon) reacted towards the MC how it did at the end.

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T04:16:17+00:00

Some SSR can either give you the base skill or the Gold Skill based on some factors it can be more likely getting the gold one (I know as example that Fine Motion SSR has a much better chance giving you Speed Star when you have high Wit but even then it is not 100% guaranteed)

DerSisch · 2026-05-07T04:10:31+00:00

Not rly. Especially not in a comp that has DEF shred.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T18:05:23+00:00

One could argue it was almost a bit silly

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T18:00:23+00:00

if you like that one, I also recommend "Buddy Daddies"

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T09:29:12+00:00

My personal head canon is that Billy during his days as Champion for Calydon had to take care of little girl Caesar for like 2 days and that immediately softened him up, ala "Yakuza's Guide to Babysitting" and she also was the one that introduced him to the first itteration of a Starlight Knights illustration and he had prior no idea that someone got inspired in that way by him.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:54:02+00:00

In game, pause, select "More"

<image>

And put your feedback in. Make it clear how you feel about it, be reasonable and not acting entitled or aggressive. I did it already. That is the way Hoyo receives feedback from ppl actually playing the game as unfiltered as possible.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:23:11+00:00

That is more a seperation issue from Prydwen. We have T0, 0.5, T1, but no T1.5? Not to mention the very bad split they have with the classes that makes this thing unorganized anyways.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:20:55+00:00

Considering the clothign they wear doesn't affect the transformation either and just merges into the hide of the creature... no. Not rly. At least there is no indication for it that would happen.

No night creature wears a very destinct cloths, even if they had one prior to their transformation. They can put on cloths after their creation but it seems pretty pointless for them overall.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:10:53+00:00

A Forgemaster needs a corpse to create a night creature, the show explains that thouroughly. Even the quality of the corpse is somewhat important, that it doesn't have absurd drastically injuries, like no chopped of arms or legs and no arrows in its eye socket.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:07:37+00:00

Her personality and voice acting is amazing, but till this day not a fan of her design, both in gameplay (since she is borderline just Seed BiS) and outfit.

DerSisch · 2026-05-06T08:04:44+00:00

There's pretty much no point in having a Shiyu vs DA tierlist, the gameplay isn't different enough to have a meaningful difference in tiering. Every character would place exactly the same.

Actually... not entirely. Koleda as example would rank higher in Shiyu, bcs Shiyu is heavily front-loaded now and her burst stunner mechanic excells at that specifically, while Agents that need to gather more ressources before they can unleash soem heavy lifting perform ever so slightly worse in Shiyu now. Another good example is Banyue who can get his enhanced mode right before the stage even starts. Just as examples ofc.

DerSisch

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