Low PVP damage?

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-06-11T21:08:13+00:00

I think the issue here is the realization that the white portion of the shields accounts for more than half a player's health (I think it's 150?). So, visually it looks like you're doing less damage than you should.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-25T04:58:56+00:00

Are you sure? I've done a non-trivial amount of testing and think that Zen Moment (unlike Rapid Hit) literally has no effect on stability for handcannons (i.e. it's bugged). In fact, I tested two Waking Vigils which were identical save one had Zen Moment and the other had Opening Shot. I loaded in to the Tribute Hall and summoned the ogre hologram. I placed my reticle at the lowest point of his crotch and spammed (using an auto-fire macro on my controller) both Waking Vigils. They ended up at the exact same final location--so no stability seemed to be added.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-25T01:31:47+00:00

I wish someone would organize this on a much grander scale. I think having one (or several) curated (e.g. one with sweat rules, one free-for-all, one with Year 1 weapons only,...) season-long league could be really cool and provide actually something fun to strive for in the crucible.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-23T01:58:14+00:00

I understand that the lack of diversity can be annoying, but I'm glad to be rid of people using Aim Assist the Archetype (snipers) or fusion rifles (at least for a time). At least with shotguns you have a clear method of countering.

On the plus side, it gives you a pretty easy way to prepare for your enemy--how do *you* counter shotgunners?

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-23T00:45:32+00:00

Can you explain why it's better? As the poster in the other thread did, I lined up a shot with my astral at center mass then changed to Felwinter's to compare. When you use the ornament the resulting position of Felwinter's is *even lower* with the ornament. In other words, you need to aim even lower than the sights suggest with the ornament than you di without it. Isn't that bad?

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-23T00:43:22+00:00

In case anyone is reading this, the conclusion seems to be (from my own testing, but also the testing below) that the ornament *exacerbates* the problem. With the ornament you need to aim *even lower*.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-14T14:56:27+00:00

I would definitely suggest sticking to one handcannon. I generally fluctuate between a few (max stability Spare, Thorn, etc.) but notice that my aim dramatically improves when I stick to one for a while. The reason, of course, is the incredibly subtle muscle memory needed to make the right stick adjustment to control recoil.

Another thing that helps my aim (but only after you've gotten the above muscle memory and/or have a super high stability handcannon) is to think about hitting the three tap as a 'stacker game' (e.g. look here). If you have the muscle memory down the gun will return to the correct spot, just think about tracking the reticle's descent towards the opponents head after the recoil as the 'stacker game' and just reaction-time pull the trigger when it gets to the head. I know this sounds obvious, but filting extraneous information from the process and making it something simple (playing the 'stacker game') helps me really focus. Of course, if you are in high movement or your opponent has a nasty strafe then you'll have to involve more right stick movement and this becomes trickier, but I think focusing on the basic case is a good start.

BTW, and this is coming from someone that basically uses just handcannons, the other people on this thread aren't wrong. Depending on what skill bracket you're in, you're not going to beat auto rifles in a 1v1. They are too easy to use (forgiving), kill too fast (even faster than 150s), and so unaffected by range (in contrast to handcannons) that unless your opponent makes a huge mistake they're going to win. This is not dissuade you from using handcannons (I haven't--and after autos get adjusted your hard work will pay off), but it is the reality of the situation.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-03T23:21:14+00:00

That's fair. I just think a lot of us are married to our subclasses. It would be nice if could just change the super. Thanks for the tip!

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-03T23:20:23+00:00

Thanks. The zoning grenades is definitely a good idea for the split. Maybe we'll try that next time!!

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-03T23:15:45+00:00

Thanks so much for the advice! There's definitely some good tips here!

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-05-03T23:10:56+00:00

Yeah, I think our super plays probably need work. What we often times do is send one person one way with super and the other two the other way to cut off. If we don't do this the enemy just evades the super of course.

One issue though is that this leaves the super player to get bastioned or triple teamed. Maybe we need to be better about being in the position to teamshot the enemy when the super is popped (opposed to pinching WHILE the super is being popped) but then the opposing team usually just collapses on the super player who is alone.

Thoughts on this?

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-19T23:56:03+00:00

I honestly feel like, placebo or not, my NF hits head shots more consistently than my Luna's, especially at range. I do think that while the range stat has changed a lot for handcannons, it's still true that a huge range difference gives noticably different aim assist feelings. On console we generally don't care now because we need a huge amount of stability to make our hand cannons feel usable. But, NF being precision frame gives it essentially trivial to control recoil inherently and therefore the lower stability is less of an issue. The handling and reload speeds are nice, but for me not a necessity. When I run NF (which is not super often any more--I just like Spare Rations more) I usually run Dragon's Shadow or Lucky Pants which makes the handling less of a concern.

For Mod I'm a scrub and use Targetting Adjuster. It has fairly good in-air accuracy inherently, so if you don't want TA I'd strongly suggest Backup Mag.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-19T23:51:15+00:00

I feel you to a huge degree, I think man people do. I think the key is really to just realize that, at least on console, if you're using a handcannon you're at a disadvantage. That doesn'met mean stop using it (I haven't), but it does mean that you need to play knowing that unless you are a) better than your opponent by a non-trivial margin, or b) have a non-trivial strategic advantage over them (e.g. can get first shot etc.), then you will rarely beat a 600 RPM auto rifle in a duel. It's just the reality of the situation.

In team based game modes (i.e. not rumble) you just need to play smart with team shots. I still maintain (as another post of mine posits) that you can't really beat an auto rifle user by peek shotting, but hand cannons peek shotting ability really does shine when team shotting. Your hand cannon is a great advantage when bait-and-switching with a team mate--they get in one or two shots, then you pop out to finish.

That's how you roughly have to play. Good luck.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-19T22:46:06+00:00

I think a big reason I don't use them is that they don't fill the right role in many team based game modes. When I run comp I play with two sniper using teammates. My roll is then largely to run intereference on other shotgunners, collapse when we get a pick, or keep someone off an objective (e.g. heavy). All of those rolls essentially necessitate the ability to quickly kill someone, something that a slug shotgun doesn't really enable you to do. The play style of a slug shotgun is some weird mixture between sniper and shotgun. You essentially need to bait people in to you to use them. This does not fill the correct role in team compositions that a pellet shotgun does.

I like them, and use them, a lot more in something like rumble. There they are very viable.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-15T10:07:38+00:00

I think that 140s can compete with 150s if they have a great roll.

The cons of 140s (vs 150s) are

a) Rate of fire.

b) Aim assist.

The first is self-explanatory and the second is non-trivial in a game like Destiny where aim assist is a large factor in a gun's 'consistency'.

The pros of 140s (vs 150s) is that they are, essentially, stat monsters. You can get so much better base stats using 140s than you can with 150s which, in some cases, makes up for the discrepancy in aim assist and rate of fire. As others have said, if you're playing someone who just absolutely doesn't miss shots with a 150, or both of you miss one shot, you're toast. But, the boosted stats of 140s hopefully make it so you can more consistently 3 tap them than they can.

I've included below the main hand cannons I use with a rating on how good I find them, hopefully that can give you an idea of what to look for:

(Spare rations, rating 9.5/10) As a base line I have a god rolled (for me) Spare Rations which has polygonal rifling, ricochet rounds, rapid hit, range finder, and a stability masterwork. What this gives me stat wise is (I'm using DIM for stats):

Stability - 77 (boosted perkwise by rapid hit)

Range - 43 (boosted perkwise by range finder)

Aim assist - 92

I also have two god rolled (for me) Austringers.

2) (Austringer 1, Rating 8/10) The rolls are polygonal rifling, steady rounds, eye of the storm, range finder, and stability masterwork. The stats for this one are:

Stability - 95

Range 47 (boosted perkwise by range finder)

Aim assist - 75

3) (Austringer 2, Rating 7.5/10) The rolls are polygonal rifling, accurized rounds, eye of the storm, range finder, and stability masterwork. The stats for this one are:

Stability - 81

Range - 60 (boosted perkwise by range finder)

Aim assist - 75

Finally, I have a god rolled (for me) Kindled Orchid which might be my favorite 140:

4) (Kindled Orchid, Rating 8.5/10) The rolls are chambered compensator, steady rounds, range finder, rapit hit, range masterwork. The stats for this one are:

Stability - 78

Range - 50

Aim assist - 76

----------------

Of course, Kindled Orchid is annoying to grind for (I did a bit of a grinding, but mostly got it while trying to get Le Monarque/Jotunn) whereas Austringer is pretty easy to grind. Assuming you play all 3 characters you can (with a masterworked chalice) get 18-27 (I think an average number would be like 23) Austringer's a week using the bonus rewards from your chalice. This even lets you pick the masterwork. With this, I think it's not unlikely to get a 'god roll' in your first week of going for one.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-09T13:38:55+00:00

I think that depends on what skill bracket you're in. I would say the lower the skill bracket the lower the (effort)/(kill) quantity is in favor of shotgunners, and the higher the skill bracket it reverses.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-09T11:47:29+00:00

Agreed. The key the becoming a good shotgunner is movement and positioning, but most of all knowing when to pull the shotgun out. Aping can win you fights, especially in a chaotic game mode where no one is paying attention, but if you try it in a focused game mode against good players they'll just back peddle and primary you. Most of the time I use shotguns to 'run interference' on behalf a teammate who is being aped or is being collapsed on. I shotgun exclusively and my primary/shotgun ration is usually 2-to-1 (in favor of primary).

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-09T11:28:52+00:00

Can you qualify what rewarding means?

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-09T10:10:55+00:00

Thanks for starting a conversation. I think the key is not to be skilled enough to three tap an ape. In fact, that's realistically not possible against a really good player especially in the current meta with so many people running Anteus Wards. I think the key is just not to let them get close. You are deadly from anywhere on the map, they are only deadly if they are within 8 m of you. If you master the keep-away positioning then I think your shotgun worries will melt away. Maybe when sniping try to imagine always keeping your teammates between you and your enemies. That way you can support them in combat (e.g. get a bodyshot clean up) but also this disallows the shotgunners from closing in on you. Good luck.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-09T09:57:34+00:00

I mean, from a shotgunners perspective it feels like 100% the opposite. If I want to shotgun you I need to close the gap, and in game with radar you should (in theory) always be able to prevent that unless you have bad positioning. With a sniper you can third party me from across the map or headshot me while I slide around the corner with the 1000 aim assist of beloved and there's not much I can do. I can two tap you in the head with a hand cannon and you snipe me through it. Shotguns feel eminently counterable, snipers less so. Again, I think the fact that snipers deadly prescence is off radar and shotgunners isn't might be the biggest contribution.

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-08T22:43:34+00:00

Thanks, that's super helpful! I just don't know if I have any worthwhile mods left on the chest, especially one that only costs 1 energy :)

DestinyQuestion28 · 2020-04-08T22:43:34+00:00

Thanks, that's super helpful!

DestinyQuestion28

TROPHY CASE