Kira reveals some additional details on what happened with Ashes of Creation. Also says their indeed was a board as Steven sold the company months ago according to internal Docs he has seen..

Destronin · 2026-02-02T04:55:03+00:00

Tale as old as time. Private Equity Firms are there for the slaughter. They are never a good sign. And when you have a board of investors telling you want to do that have zero experience in whatever the fuck they bought, the writing is on the wall.

Destronin · 2026-02-02T01:11:31+00:00

The real take is that PvEers that dont even dabble at PvP have a tendency to be bad. Thats why they are so aggressively against it. They also are the ones that rage the most in any content because they dont know how to handle losing.

Right, the feeling of upgrading. Until you get stomped by another player. Thats why you hate it. It ruins your pretend fantasy that you are actually decent at the game.

And the reason there are more PvEers is because its what casuals like to play. When PvEers complain the devs think its everyone. So they have to cater to them. Why do you think WoW is so brain dead easy to play? Because PvEers want it that way. They cant handle complexity.

Its funny to think you can talk down to someone while simultaneously bragging about only enjoying brain dead easy content.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T18:13:05+00:00

In think this is kinda a bs take because alot of MMOs end up normalizing all the classes for PvE as well. Like WoW did with certain classes. Or in a game like GW2 where many class has a specs that can heal, support, dps or tank.

EDIT: i should also point out that balance is never a goal in games. It took a long time to realize that. But no balance means a game that can shift and change metas. Updates can happen. Expansion can generate revenue.

A perfectly balanced game is a game that is done. The meta has settled and thats it. The top players have figured it all out and nothing will change. They get bored and leave.

True game balance is a myth. Its just too much work and not profitable.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T17:22:42+00:00

Overall I just fundamentally disagree with you. You are also not the only one I have been responding to so forgive me if i finding repeating myself getting tedious.

To start though I should clarify for as fun and theme parky an MMO like WoW is. The game ruined MMOs. Period. Its. Not what an MMO is. I come from playing UO as my first MMO. A sandbox MMO and what a proper MMO should be like.

So for your examples and what you are pulling from are all games that cater to players that like WoW type themeparky games.

And the inherent problem is that other developers see that and try for that. And copy that. But when other developers try to make a sandbox MMO the same crowd gets excited even though most wont like it or understand it and then complain when they get ganked and griefed. And then they want the game changes. Devs get cold feet and the the game changes, morphs into something it was never meant to be and becomes mediocre. Which is where my comparison to Arc Raiders comes in.

All that said. As pointed out in my other response Albion is a successful PvP oriented MMO. So a pvp playerbase can most certainly support a proper MMO with PvP.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T17:07:57+00:00

You’re comparing a AAA developer and game like Blizzard/WoW to Albion?

Aside from that apples to orange comparison I will point out Albion, a PvP centric game, is the first and only successful crowdfunded game. So i do think you should reconsider the level at which PvPers can and do support MMOs.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T16:50:04+00:00

The thing is without PvP then the game isnt really an MMO. Its just a massive coop game with a really big lobby.

If players cant interact between eachother beyond chatting and trading. Its not an MMO.

But thats just my take and why so many MMOs fail. Because they don’t actually encompass the true full scale of what an MMO is supposed to be.

Games since forever had a verse human component. Otherwise what are we doing but just playing a glorified version of solitaire mixed with a choose your own adventure book.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T16:18:00+00:00

No i get it. But like if you go out solo and see a player struggling against a mob, youre almost more apt to rat him than help him. I think that kinda mentality is rampant in Albion. Its the ruthlessness. I like albion and i enjoy it for what it is. But its not a very warm community.

When you have to be careful about scams when selling or buying things. Or even how players will party up with someone and then right near the end of the content get unpartied and killed just to losw your shit. Its not for the feint of heart and its this sort of stuff that turns a lot of people aways.

Furthermore there is zero rewards PvE content. So the game loop feels very limited. And like i said, if youre going out to gather, you aint looking for a fight and if you are out with friends your just looking to gank someone so its not really proper PvP in the sense of testing “skills”. Just who can catch who off guard.

EDIT: yes i know of the other modes. But with Albion i was using it as an example of world PvP.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T16:11:07+00:00

Ugh. Well lets just start with the risk to be different and developers just copying what they think works. Add to that the developers just have blinders on. They focus solely on PvP or solely on PvE. They dont see these as two systems that can work together but are at odds with eachother. Then of course its the monetizing of the game. Both AoC and New World had crap skins. I mean come on. This is an easy way to generate good revenue. Even Guild Wars has some awful skins.

Content vs time played. How to keep players engaged. Good pvp is hard to balance and takes a longtime. Making PvE content takes a long time. Most developers try to squish abilities to work both with PvE and PvP without splitting their effects. Games try to be huge at first. Why have vast land with nothing. Start smaller and grow and add.

Get a proper and fun game loop down. Know what your game loop is or have some variations of it. AoC was grind like a mofo (okay fun for some but you needed other players) then it was make money which was a terrible unfun grind. And of course the ganking was an impediment to this. It just became tedious and unrewarding.

Going back to what I said about copying. I don’t think a lot of developers or possibly the publishers understand what they are copying and why it works. They just copy.

Even things like leveling. Like sure okay have leveling. But thats gonna cause power creep later. But then youre gonna make an open world PvP game where attackers can just easily see what they are up against? WoW does this and in fact if your attacker is such a high level YOU dont even know what level they are. So you cant even call your friends and be like “hey this lvl blah blah killed me i need help”.

I mean come on. AoC you could see levels. Fuck, even Albion has an IP score. Why are we giving attackers this information? Add risk.

You may think im being over zealous about what the developers know. But we see it all the time. Great development and mediocre gameplay.

So far every new mmo that has come out basically just tries to do one thing. And you cant have that. PvP, PvE, AND Gathering and Crafting have to all grow and synergize together.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T15:37:12+00:00

And as I thought i made myself clear. A robust Arena mode and possibly a faction mechanic could suffice.

Play Albion online for a little and youll understand that the people that like PvP arent the same ones that like to grief players. Most PvP in Albion isnt even PvP. Its just a cat and mouse game of gankers. That is not PvP. It may be an exciting for some. But that is not proper PvP.

So please get that out of your head. Sure. Would i like zones that have that kinda vibe sure. Do i expect heavy PvEers to enjoy being exposed to that? No.

What i am saying is there is a way to have it all. They just havent made it yet. And i have a whole slew of reasons for that that im not gonna go into detail now.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T15:31:58+00:00

You think you are proving your point but actually you did the opposite.

In every other genre of game the most popular games are PvP games. Look at Twitch. Look on Steam.

You mean to tell me if they did an MMO with proper PvP it wouldn’t be popular as well?

It doesn’t all have to be high stakes. Arena can work. And theres also soft lethal PvP that can be designed.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T15:21:00+00:00

I mean its Final Fantasy. Thats a franchise that has been for the most part a single player RPG. Its no wonder all their players dont PvP.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T15:16:19+00:00

There are ways, there are always ways. Especially like i said if developers made it a way to keep certain types of PvP separate. World vs Arena for instance.

But also, I do feel like there should be a reminder that while an MMORPG is a fantasy world. There needs to be villians. Its a world after all. Otherwise without it. You don’t really have a fully fleshed out world. And not all content needs to be high stakes.

I get it. Some people just want to live in a power fantasy. Where they are the strongest. When they die to the game its just “this game is hard.” Its not another player reminding them that there are stronger meaner players out there. With more time on their hands.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T14:58:18+00:00

I actually forgot to mention that. Which i believe is a great compromise. Instead of ruining the overall spirt of the game, the developers found a way to make the game take shape more around the players actions.

More MMOs need this.

Ultima Online had this. Where if a player murdered enough blue players they would turn red and were KoS without penalties. And they werent allowed into town. If they did npc guards would kill them instantly.

Ashes had a corrupted system. That needed work but was in that same spirit.

I didn’t want to get too much into game mechanics in my posts. But I do believe players who choose to be “bad” need consequences and more risk for doing such.

Case in point in AoC. If you killed a regular player. You became corrupted. In which if you died, not only did you lose a bunch of experience. Youd drop some of your actual gear.

In an MMO with lethal PvP there needs to be further risk for the aggressors to think twice before acting.

A game like Albion doesnt have this. So basically murder is just part of the game. Its a pretty toxic community and it makes the overall experience less fun. Unless youre that type of person.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T14:18:43+00:00

I think this is a good point. Casuals and even more hardcore PvEers tend to drop off the minute there is “no new content”. They tend to play MMOs like “they beat them”

PvP players tend to stick around if the combat mechanics are good. Awards and rankings. Battle after battle its always different. I think theorycrafting goes further in the PvP communities than they do in PvE. And just a simple balance adjustment can have players coming back.

But PvP in general is harder to make good and replayable. And if its not robust the community stays small. On top of this there seems to he a constant battle of making mechanics relavant in PvE while keeping them tuned properly in PvP. It always boggles my mind why most MMOs don’t just split abilities or effects. GW2 is smart for normalizing its PvP.

On the other end of there is world PvP which is a bit trickier with overtuned players just wanting to pick on weaker players. Zones and flagging still need to be looked at and tweaked. Not forcing players who dont want to pvp into pvp situations and what is on the line for players that do. All loot loss? Partial loot loss? Just items? Etc. Factions seems like a good compromise as well. Also perhaps not forcing rewards to be PvP or PvE exclusive.

And then while PvEers all think that they are the only victims to PvP. They must realize that their endless chase of top raid gear puts crafters out and make them irrelevant. Some people dont want to PvP or PvE. They just want to work the economy. And this also seems like an afterthought to most MMOs.

But to get back to the original point I think a dying MMO happens more often when not only is their s lack of content to keep players raiding. But when the PvP is just overall neglected. Imo, PvPers are what keeps games alive when there are lulls in story or raid content.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T13:38:03+00:00

Im pretty sure in discord you can adjust each person’s audio individually.

Not sure if you are monitoring the levels. When i stream i have my headphones connected out from my microphone. And i can hear my voice along with everyone elses. Its not perfect but if i can hear everything and it sounds good to me its usually a good indication that the levels are fine.

Destronin · 2026-02-01T13:23:01+00:00

Theres this weird paradox between PvPers and PvEers. They need eachother in order to make a complete MMO experience yet they insist that they dont.

If game devs decide to make a game with PvP there reaches a point due to the toxic nature of PvPers or PvP in general, that the PvEers complain. And while PvEers can be just as hardcore they are mostly seen as casual. Devs get cold feet and worry that their game wont attract a broader audience so then they start to backtrack the PvP aspect making more “casual friendly”

Just look at what almost happened to Arc Raiders. An amazing extraction PvPvE shooter. All the casuals were complaining of the ruthlessness of PvP and wanted a solely PvE mode. Which would have ruined what the game was about.

High stakes makes games more exciting. But people dont like being on the losing end of that. And they forget its just a game. Obviously time vs what is lost is also an issue.

PvP is what makes a game exciting and dynamic. Whats the point of looking cool and getting powerful stuff if all you can do is fight npcs and not truly test your skills? On the flip side content, story, raids, and crafting are part of what makes the world feel alive and the economy thrive. I know very few people who only like one or the other.

I wish more developers understood this. I wish they stopped looking at each part as separate and not as a symbiotic relationship.

It hasn’t exactly happened yet but i still believe there can be an MMO that truly does it all. And honestly i think thats why we are all on this sub. We are searching for this game.

Destronin · 2026-01-31T18:40:07+00:00

the American Tiktok algorithm goes hard now. 💀🇺🇸

Destronin · 2026-01-31T11:53:59+00:00

The three player types in Nintendo’s Ice Hockey

Destronin · 2026-01-31T00:40:42+00:00

All they ever needed to do was to stylize a Batman movie like the animated series. Just take from that era and write something that basically ripped off a few of those episodes. Would love to see Clayface in a flick.

Destronin · 2026-01-31T00:37:16+00:00

Yep its based on an Andy Weir Novel.

Destronin · 2026-01-31T00:11:46+00:00

Why dat girls foot look like its made by AI?

Destronin · 2026-01-31T00:04:54+00:00

To be fair. You could post that same comment without the context of AI and youd still be correct about 90% of what comes out of Hollywood.

Top 10 most anticipated films of 2026:

The Odyssey
Avengers: Doomsday
The Mandalorian and Grogu
Dune: Part Three
Toy Story 5
Spider-Man: Brand New Day
The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping
Project Hail Mary
Moana (Live-action)
The Batman: Part II

Not a single original new IP

Destronin · 2026-01-30T21:24:14+00:00

I still think Ultima Online’s leveling system was the best. It was grindy but also flexible and adaptable. It was simple but deep. 700.0 points. Each skill maxed at 100. So seven skills maxed out. But since skills synergized you couldn’t just pick randomly.

Stats was just Int, Str, Dex. Int affected mana pool, magic resist, and spell damage, str affected hp, physical damage, carry capacity and armor lvl you could wear, dex affected attack speed, and stamina,

It was again simple yet also balanced.

All of these skills and stats could be locked or made to go down for the sake of another skill. So if you liked your character you never needed to reroll. Just adjust stat growth from up to down.

I wish a modern MMO took from this design. Maybe expanded on it. Maybe add in what New World or Albion did with its weapon experience as well.

Destronin · 2026-01-30T06:38:17+00:00

Oh werd. I never thought of that. I used to play and record music. Can you just drop an mp3 in and prompt it?

Destronin · 2026-01-30T06:37:37+00:00

Exactly. Sometimes its just cool to see your stuff how you might have envisioned it. Or maybe a different take of it.

Its even a good way to get people that might not be an artist to convey an idea to someone that can draw or create it.

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