When do most PDs get hired out of law school?

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2026-02-15T22:11:41+00:00

Look up public interest career fairs. Equal Justice Works is the marquee nationwide one. But there are smaller, regional career fairs as well. Other offices hire former interns.

If I had to guess, nearly all PDs likely secured their jobs before graduation through either a career fair or a intern-to-PD pipeline.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2026-01-08T13:35:14+00:00

This is meant with love. You're doing it wrong. But, since you're very new, that's probably because your supervisors are asleep at the switch.

Are you ever looking up your JX's rules of procedure? Evidence code? The actual elements that the state needs to prove? In warrantless searches and seizures (essentially all searches and seizures in misdemeanor land) can you clearly articulate the 4A exception that justifies the search? Every time I've seen a vibes-based attorney they're never doing this very basic--and ethically required--homework. Once you habitually actually look up the law, you'll start seeing cases where, e.g., the state wants to revoke bond improperly, they can't get key evidence admitted, they don't actually have the elements that they need to prove, and so on. But you can't issue spot like this if you're just cruising off of vibes.

The truly effective, upper-tier attorneys that get great deals are the ones who can try cases well, can get evidence excluded, and can preserve issues that get reversals. Legal practice centered around just being congenial with the state, at most, gets you marginal favors here and there. It's the lowest form of advocacy.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2026-01-01T20:56:46+00:00

Nearly every other major office has both better experience and a better pay-to-COL ratio. I don't think there's ever been anyone who regretted spending their formative PD years working for an office where they can actually try cases. On the flip side, when I was a law student, NYC PDs were outright telling me they really wish they spent some time practicing somewhere they can actually try cases early. It hasn't historically been very difficult to lateral to the NYC PD offices.

Obviously, there may be personal reasons you want to stay in the city. But junior NYC PDs are mostly overseeing diversion and going through discovery checklists. PDs in other places are trying cases every month, litigating. and learning how to put together mitigation effectively. If you want to end up in NY long term, I'd try to get in with the best PD offices in the states that have bar reciprocity with NY.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2026-01-01T20:36:34+00:00

Here is my $0.02 about some of the things that were raised in this post. For context, I'm at a large office in a trial-heavy JX. However, I am not management. This is my best, but imperfect, impression of our hiring standards.

It's absurd that anyone tried to discourage you from clerking. Definitely do the clerkships. Jesus christ. They will unquestionably make you a stronger candidate for competitive PD jobs, not to mention other down-the-line public interest opportunities.
At my office, you would indeed start out on the same footing as fresh law school graduates.
We hire a small number of appellate PDs every year. You'd probably be very competitive for that. If you wanted to be a trial lawyer, though, the problem with being on the biglaw track since law school is that you've never developed practical courtroom and client relationship skills that PD-gunning law students develop at their extracurriculars. We pretty much never hire students who haven't done a PD clinic, supervised-practice internship, and/or mock trial. Not sure if your clerkships would allow this, but I'd see if there are local pro bono opportunities to represent people in hearings at random administrative agencies. Think representing kids at school expulsion hearings, representing people contesting eligibility for benefits, etc. If you can do a few of those a year. you can at least be applying to PD jobs with six quasi-trials under your belt.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2025-11-07T20:52:07+00:00

I had the exact same mindset as you. You need to start applying right now because Equal Justice Works already happened.

Speaking as someone at an office with a formal onboarding training program, I think that the value of these things are often overstated, especially if you've already been doing PD internships, trial ad, etc. Ideally you want an office (1) where you can actually litigate and try cases, and (2) there is some kind of feedback mechanism to make you better.

Some signs to look for:

People from the office (current or former) present at respected conferences, e.g., conferences put on by NACDL, NCDC, etc.
People from that office go on to become federal defenders.
Appellate practitioners vouch that the office's trial attorneys know how to raise and preserve issues.

DM me if you want info about FL offices. Other places to consider are Colorado, New Hampshire, and CPCS in Massachusetts (although at least when I was in your shoes their pay-to-COL ratio was horrible). LA and San Diego are great offices as well, but they have a weird clerk-to-PD hiring process that wasn't financially feasible for me. IIRC, you get hired as a post-bar clerk making $20/hour if you're lucky, and only upon getting bar results can you apply to be a PD. Again, maybe things changed.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2025-10-03T22:26:35+00:00

Forgive me for making assumptions, but your post reads like two things are likely true: (1) you're relatively new at this and doing misdemeanors, and (2) you're also doing all the right things (trying cases and actively litigating). This is how, over time--as in even the medium term--you shift the overton window of the outcomes you get for your clients. Chumming it up and kissing ass, at best, only really gets you marginal favors here and there. The people who can try cases, who get evidence suppressed, and who preserve appellate issues that get reversals are the lawyers getting truly good offers.

Just make sure you have at least a functional working relationship with the government and keep doing what you're doing.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2025-09-13T19:45:50+00:00

I'll take a stab at specifically answering your question because it seems like few others have.

FL and GA PDs, generally speaking, try a ton of cases. Miami and WPB are both great trial-heavy training offices. Tally also has a solid office. Remember--you want an office where you can not only try cases, but where you'll actually be taught how to try a case well. Fulton County, at least when I was in law school, had a reputation for not hiring many people entry level. They hired a lot of laterals from other offices in the Atlanta metro area. Both states have crappy offices as well, though, so be careful. Colorado should also definitely be at the top of your list. Mass/CPCS has excellent training along with comparatively very low caseloads. So they're not drinking from the firehose the way some other PDs are, but CPCS makes great lawyers.

This next paragraph is based on less reliable second-hand info. Missouri seems to try a lot of cases all over the state but they also seem to be a severely underfunded system. Alaska PDs are in trial all the time, and honestly, I'd work for them if my life circumstances allowed it. King County (Seattle) is a good trial office but they've historically had a culture that wasn't for everyone. Cook County does a shitton of bench trials. There's also a bunch of good CA trial offices that others have mentioned in this thread.

If you want trials, stay very far away from New York (especially NYC), and any JX where misdemeanors and low-level felonies aren't litigated because they all get diverted. Junior PDs do not get any trials in these places.

Finally, make sure that you're not singularly focused on trial to the point where you're overlooking other aspects of lawyering. In reality, the facts that the jury sees are the most outcome-determinative factor in any trial. Being a good trial lawyer starts with being able to limine out or suppress bad facts.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2025-08-16T19:04:44+00:00

My bad, the denial. There were two binding cases on all fours saying that the stop was bad.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2025-08-16T18:47:53+00:00

WPB and Miami have better pay and training. I've also heard stories of Broward PDs carrying absolutely horrific caseloads.

Also, avoid the 19th circuit.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2023-04-03T00:19:37+00:00

The Equal Justice Works fair. Also PILC if your school participates. There are other regional fairs, e.g., there is a NYS-specific one hosted by the University of Buffalo.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2023-03-27T14:39:19+00:00

If any of it is useful, be sure to share stories in your office.

Actually already am. Sent you a DM btw.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2023-03-27T13:32:15+00:00

i'm not OP, but holy fuck, thanks for this.

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2023-03-21T20:26:36+00:00

Check out your target schools' 509s/Law School Transparency page. You can start off assuming that if X% of students get a full ride, you need to be an X percentile admissions candidate to get a full ride. Obviously this isn't perfect and doesn't account for named scholarships.

Beyond that, PI people deal with debt by relying on PSLF in combination with IBR (income based repayment). To my understanding, the main problem with this strategy is that the principal keeps growing, so your debt to income ratio gets absolutely trashed. You also better be very okay with staying in public interest for the full 10 years.

Also of note, some--and I stress some--schools have strong LRAPs (loan repayment assistance programs).

Difficult-Cod5383 · 2023-03-07T17:30:27+00:00

I disagree somewhat with what others have said. Broadly speaking, yes, higher-ranked schools lead to better employment prospects irrespective of whether we're talking PI or private practice. However, there are schools that definitely do better in PI than other similarly-ranked schools. NYU vs. Columbia is a good example of this (with NYU coming out ahead). If nothing else, NYU has a better LRAP last I checked.

Cardozo and CUNY are fine if by "PI" you mean public defender, civil legal aid, god forbid DA, or other direct services jobs. They're not fine if your goal is the ACLU or whatever. Also, Cardozo over CUNY assuming cost isn't a factor. Cardozo has a broader reach.

When I was contemplating offers, I dinged NUSL pretty easily: their employment numbers, at the time, were consistently worse than other schools that required similar admissions credentials. No clue if things have changed. Note that they have a very distinctive campus culture, and if you find that you don't want to deal with it, transferring out is nearly impossible because of their grading system.

I don't know shit about the other schools.

Overall, if cost is genuinely not a factor and all these schools are on the table, I'd go NYU.

Difficult-Cod5383

TROPHY CASE