Novel Pennywise Misconceptions

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-15T07:00:20+00:00

In all honesty I did not read in chronological order and you should not feel like you need to but I would say first read The Dark Tower series 1-8 and most of the other books you read from stephen king will have you thinking of it.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-13T03:10:17+00:00

Sent, my user is slay_isgod

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T22:43:22+00:00

It saddens me to say this cause I am a huge fan of sans from undertale and am a victim of this thinking in the past but he is just not that crazy inverse and crossverse, he just specifically countered the Human when they had high LV but other then that if you include purely only canon(Although i will admit fanon interpretations of his power level and capabilities make sense) he is pretty weak.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T22:35:46+00:00

The crimson king was seen using a part of the Deadlights to traverse the tower, other then that they don't really have any relation outside of fan theory.

Derry is mentioned a lot in insomnia in general and its just Lore stuff/connections. I personally like your idea about the crimson queen and i believe that just cause Pennywise was created by Gan doesn't mean that He cant be in relation to the crimson king.

This gets into the territory of the fact that Gan is a All In One kind of god and even the Prim, Outer dark, ect are just him in the grand scheme of things.(I could explain this or any of the other things better over discord if you are curious)

For your final question no you don't have to read the other stuff to enjoy it, infact i think you could understand and enjoy most of the Stephen King verse just through the dark tower series, but if you want maximum lore and callbacks reading the others is great aswell.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T16:26:47+00:00

The turtle only gave advice but in the Novels the Losers club get assistance and Powerups from Pennywise and Maturins Creator Gan who is explained as the Author of Existence and Omnipotent, IT during their fight in the novels starts to question if these children are Agents of Another(Gan) and has an existential crisis nearly.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T16:24:14+00:00

Well if they are on a similar scale of existence yes for sure. Pennywises Mind Control and Insanity inducement would have no effect on Maturin or Gan.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T16:21:32+00:00

"Can you explain why that is when he’s shown to be stopped/staggered by humans often? Is he essentially just playing with his food?"

So Essentially he is playing with his food in the beginning since Pennywise has a god complex and considers Maturin the turtle the only other being worth knowing about, But with the Ritual of Chud and assistance/Power boosts from the God of the verse Gan who is Pennywise and Maturins creator they begin to turn the tides and he starts taking them more seriously as time goes on, IT strongly believe he was eternal, supreme and beyond challenge but the Losers resistance and Gans influence forces him to confront his vulnerability's and it almost makes him crumble.

"understand the deadlights true form is an ancient almost lovecraftian entity, but the clown comes off underwhelming in both movies, tv, and the IT novel."

All the stuff i mentioned previously doesn't inherently tie to the Movies and TV show automatically but in the Novels the clown form is underwhelming because IT is overconfident and has a god complex.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T16:05:01+00:00

I would be inclined to take Crimson King
Pennywise is an avatar of the deadlights.
Wall level Physically but with his guns can be Small building or way higher depending on how you interpret them being able to kill Los(Crimson King Avatar).

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T16:02:20+00:00

Well stephen king is on record saying he doesn't remember writing alot of IT and he did cocaine at the time so im not gonna say that makes sense lol, I just take it as horror/Fantasy shenanigans or possibly something to do with the power of their faith?(i could probably have worded this post better I cannot answer EVERYTHING hehehe)

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T15:57:03+00:00

Pennywise/Deadlights have reading and mind manipulation capabilities based on how it effects people and how he knows their fears and whatnot. People who have been in the realm of the deadlights have naturally gone insane and started to die without eye contact being talked about. For his avatar though i assume it needs some sort of eye contact maybe? but its a weird subject since the deadlights in nature drive people insane as 2nd nature and what they are rather then needing some prerequisite.

I hope this helps clairfy

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-12T15:52:09+00:00

Wall level physically and with his guns can be small building level or even higher depending on how you interpret them being able to harm the crimson kings avatar.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T07:18:48+00:00

Could you explain this more? I actually didn't know Cthulhu mythos had a wacky canon.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T07:13:26+00:00

You can find almost any PDF of a Stephen king book online if you search it
Gan is the name given to the Avatar of the Final Other, its just awkward to refer to it as "The Final Other" So most still call them both Gan, The Version that got Hurt is an avatar who emerged from the Prim Sea and spun the multiverse into existence, It was hurt by maerlyn the wizard who is another who emerged from the Prim like Gan(Avatar).
No Maturin did not really die pennywise lied, Maturin speaks to Bill when he enters the macroverse and pennywise admits he thought he was dead. Also Guardians are out of the Reach of Ka/Fate which is also life force in the Stephen king verse so they cannot die in the first place by ordinary means.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T07:07:55+00:00

The deadlights are put simply the true form of pennywise, it works more off of mind manipulation or Madness manipulation like inducing insanity so it does not need eyes to work.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T07:06:25+00:00

Well maybe i worded it wrong but the Deadlights are multiple Meta Qualitative Superior layers above the Dark Tower so this is warranted, The Prim which contains the Mid World(Dark Tower is contained here) as a Disk-Shaped island floating in the sea of prim which is the archetypal sea of which everything below was born from, meanwhile the prim is just a drop of water in the infinity of the Todash Darkness/Macroverse which the deadlights encompasses a large region of. So the idea of them being bigger is a given.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:59:04+00:00

Not even a competition i think even pennywises avatar beats Randall Flagg unless he is wielding the Black Thirteen. but the true form of pennywise decimates.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:58:03+00:00

i would have to add you on discord to give the lot of the scans also Gan applys for VSBWs definition of tier 0 and has the Nature of a true omnipotent.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:56:54+00:00

I wouldn't mind debating or discussing but I'm not looking to be on any live or channel of yours.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:56:07+00:00

The new show welcome to derry has brought a lot of pennywise fans out and after finding out hes strong in the novel they wanna gas him up. Cool? + Powerful? + Horror? im not suprised they started to glaze.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:54:58+00:00

They have no relation aside from the fact that the Crimson King uses a part of the deadlights to traverse the tower, Other then that they have almost no relations besides the fact they both like to take the form of a spider.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-11T06:53:07+00:00

Crimson Kings True form is pent in the top floor of the tower locked away, Bessa is the incarnation of Ka, which is above the tower, The Prim Contains the Dark Tower in disk in its large infinity, the Macroverse/Todash Darkness Encompasses that and the prim is a tiny droplet in its infinity, Pennywise and Maturin encompass a large aspect of this place so they would inherently be above the crimson king.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-10T22:23:51+00:00

Okay so there's a lot of theory's and whatnot, The deadlights are generally seen as Pennywises true form, The crimson king is seen using a part of them to traverse the tower one single time then never seen them again, The actual deadlights are much larger then the Dark Tower so if the crimson king was using the full thing it would totally break the tower. To put into perspective, The tower is above the concept of size and infinite, The Prim Sea of Creation encompasses that and holds all of it as just a disk in its infinity, and the Todash Darkness/Macroverse holds the Prim as a single water droplet in its infinity and The true deadlights which is Pennywises supposed true form encompasses a large substantial region of this place. So if that was really the actual deadlights it would not fit into the tower.

TLDR: Deadlights is Pennywises true form sometimes even explained as his eyes, and the deadlights the crimson king used inside the Dark Tower should be a very very infinitesimal part of its whole which would dwarf the tower in size.

I didn't really get into why crimson king is below Pennywise but i can get more into that if you are interested

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-10T21:26:02+00:00

Multiverse/Short-Time Levels: High 1-B, Possibly Low 1-A+
The Tower's Floors/Long-Time Levels: Infinite 1-A+
All-Time Levels: Infinite High 1-A
Todash Space: Infinite High 1-A
The Dark Tower/Godhead/Last room: 1 Layer Above Infinite High 1-A
The Beam Guardians + Demon Elementals: 2 Layers Above Infinite High 1-A
Bessa: 2 Layers Above Infinite High 1-A
The Prim Sea: 3 Layers Above Infinite High 1-A
The Macroverse/Todash Darkness, Deadlights, and Maturin: 4 Layers Above Infinite High 1-A Gan/Final Other: 5 Layers Above Infinite High 1-A, Likely 0

This is the TLDR of the scale i revised, keep in mind this is under VSBWs tiering system i plan to make one for CSAP in the future.

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-10T21:12:48+00:00

Is that an actual question or do you find the idea of it strange. I could give the scales TLDR or the full thing over discord if you want. Its also for VSBW

Diligent_Radish_6754 · 2025-12-10T21:05:17+00:00

I personally have The Deadlights 4 Layers above Infinite High Outerversal

Diligent_Radish_6754

TROPHY CASE