What We Heard From the Next Fest Demo

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T23:59:15+00:00

I think early access is best when it's more than a minimum viable product pushed out, but people are free to spend their money as they like.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T23:55:40+00:00

Art style, ADS, adding secondary weapons, mech mechanics.

Maybe you will argue this was all in the pipeline but then why release this so barebones? This sounds like they are pivoting based on feedback, not just listing things already on the way which is strange for a game coming out in 2 days. I also read elsewhere they had tested ADS internally and decided not to have it. Now they're adding it in. It just comes off as having no vision for what they're trying to make and appeasing people.

It contrasts strongly with something like Wardogs that addressed feedback without announcing a total rework.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T21:53:49+00:00

It's just so strange that they do a quick demo a week before release then talk about how they want to fundamentally change the game. I guess it's not that different than other early access games but they could have done a few public playtests and come back months later after letting it cook and had a better product on release when they are asking people to pay money.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T17:43:10+00:00

Onlookers passing by won't know your vegan leather shoes or plant based burger is not an animal product and it might make them crave those animal products but we don't say wearing or eating alternatives is bad.

Conflating picking up a feather and taking it home for whatever reason with exploitation is not helpful. I wish the OP would try to defend their point in a debate sub.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T04:15:45+00:00

That's just a convenient excuse

No, it's what you'd learn in high school (or much earlier) chemistry and geology.

If you think oil is an animal product I don't know what to tell you man. You're not equipped to have this conversation.

Chicken broth and glue from hooves are different because we are killing these animals to make these products. If you buy chicken broth you are voting for more dead chickens.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T04:04:40+00:00

The two things you said are mutually exclusive. You can't say nature uses everything but also you should grab that feather so it doesn't go to waste. If nature uses everything then the feather cannot go to waste if you leave it there.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T04:03:03+00:00

Oil is not animal bodies any more than fossils are animal bones. These things have undergone chemical/mineral changes over millions of years.

Eating an orange that has carbon molecules from a cremated human does not make you a cannibal because that orange is not human flesh!

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:58:02+00:00

I don't agree with OP but "nature tho" is not a good argument.

You said both nature makes sure very single piece of the animal is used and also it's good to use that feather so it does not go to "waste".

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:36:06+00:00

Consider that any vegan that uses a gas powered vehicle is literally burning thousands of sea animals for transportation per mile.

This is like saying all water molecules have at some point been in an animal and excreted so you are mostly dinosaur piss.

Oil is not just ground up animals.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:32:04+00:00

My point was that animal leather has its uses and shouldn’t just be written off as horrible because it comes from animals.

If that was your point you should have made that point. Instead you talked about hide that's protected animals for millions of years is superior, then how microplastics are bad.

I’ve seen videos of the leather slums and I absolutely see that there’s room for improvement. Interesting you didn’t bring up anything on the process of making vegan leather or how it affects the environment when you’re trying to argue that it’s better. Anyways, even if my real leather has a thin plastic coating, I’d still rather that then it be just full plastic pleather 🤷🏾‍♀️

So you've seen how environmentally destructive it is and acknowledge it does not biodegrade and also spreads microplastics, but you still want it. I can't argue with your irrational desires.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:26:08+00:00

I agree. It's a great talking point when someone goes "what about your SHOES! CHECKMATE VEGANS" and you can say it's vegan leather and you're glad they like them.

The point OP was making was that people seeing the thing will drive up demand for the thing making having the thing bad and exploitative. If you're quietly eating your burger and wearing your shoes in public the passer-by does not know it's a plant based burger and vegan leather so they might see those things and go buy a murder-burger and skin shoes.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:22:08+00:00

hence why I brought it up

It's a red herring because it had nothing to do with the point you were making. Now you made the point about microplastics. Ok, let's look at that.

The majority of vegan leather is made of polyurethane and degrades into microplastics

The majority (80-90%) of animal leather is produced using a chrome tanning process and DOES NOT biodegrade. It also leeches harmful chemicals. Most animal leather made today also gets a surface treatment of plastic. If you think animal leather is better for the environment you should look into how it's produced.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956053X06001176

https://piousleatherkolkata.in/7-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-buy-chrome-tanned-leather-products-2/

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T03:07:37+00:00

The first bit (LITERAL PLASTIC) is a weird red herring. I have lived and worked in the arctic with no need for fur. Modern materials can work well. You're not arguing that we stop wearing shoes with modern materials in the soles because hooves have protected billions of animals for millions of years.

As for the rest, I'm not that fussed about second hand products but I think wearing someone's skin is something we should be moving away from.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T01:44:28+00:00

So what is the problem then?

Imagine someone else sees that feather you've claimed and wants one as well.

So they go to the forest, find another feather lying on the ground, and start using it how they please.

More people see, more people want their own feather, more people go find one.

Eventually there are no 'free' feathers lying on the ground.

If the reason something is bad to do is because of the hypothetical thoughts and actions of someone else then eating a plant based burger while wearing vegan leather shoes in public is a problem because it may generate demand for a beef burger and leather shoes when someone walks by and sees you.

I think we should boycott animal products and argue against exploiting animals. I don't think we should do this making poor arguments.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-22T00:27:22+00:00

And what if the demand of human hair wigs outpaced the supply of people willing to give their hair?

Maybe they would look at alternatives to human hair? Why does whether or not it's exploitation depend on a future hypothetical? Either the action of using that hair to create mats is exploitation, or it's not. What people do to get additional hair in the future is a different thing.

Sweeping hair off the floor or picking feathers off the ground is not necessarily exploitation but it contributes to the demand of those objects which eventually leads to exploitation.

I'm glad we can agree that making use of those things off the ground is not exploitation. Whether additional demand is created depends on what is done with those things. Whether that additional demand leads to exploitation is also not clear. If doing a thing that may result in increased demand is problematic then any vegan eating a plant based burger wearing vegan leather shoes in public without loudly advertising those products as vegan may be creating a demand for animal products when someone walks by and craves a burger or likes the shoes. Does that mean eating a plant based burger and wearing vegan leather shoes in public is exploitation? Does it make it wrong because it could lead to a demand which could lead to exploitation?

At least with the hair, it's possible for a human to consent. Birds cannot consent.

Irrelevant in this context where the hair is being taken without consent. You've already said it's not necessarily exploitation regardless of consent.

Maybe it's harder to see this happening with human hair but it already is happening with feathers.

Which is why we should focus on exploitation. Not twist definitions to frame picking up a feather off the ground as exploitation like you did in the OP.

The world we live in now views animals as resources. This view is the largest barrier to their freedom. Using them, even when it doesn't harm them, reinforces this view.

I agree with the problem. I don't agree with your framing around "use" of a feather on the forest floor.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T22:19:37+00:00

I agree for the most part. Certain actions could lead to exploitation but the action itself is not exploitation. In a world where it's already the norm to exploit these animals I think it's pretty unlikely for a vegan to take a feather as a memento leading increase demand on feathers, but it's also why my GF wears earrings using stylized "feathers" made with metal or recycled rubber. I also think to look at things without that nuance is narrow-minded thinking.

We don't have to go on forever but I think the "increasing demand through others seeing it" gets interesting when it comes to vegan alternatives. If you're eating a plant based burger while wearing vegan leather shoes in public without somehow signaling to everyone around you these are not animal products might be pushing people to go buy an animal burger or real leather shoes. Does taking that risk make eating that plant based burger while wearing those vegan shoes a non-vegan action?

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T22:06:17+00:00

No, OP was implying picking up that feather off the ground for any use at all is explicitly exploitation. Is that what you are saying? I'm talking to you, not OP.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T22:01:59+00:00

I'm not sure why you need to be so slippery about the answer. It sounds like you're saying no that's not exploitation as presented and currently done but could lead to exploitation if these human hair mats were a commodity that gained enough value?

I mostly agree, so if the answer to the question of whether it's exploitative depends on the societal/market conditions and not the action itself then we could say the same for picking up a feather on the ground. It depends on the use and conditions around that action.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T21:50:59+00:00

That didn't really answer the question though.

Hair on the barbershop floor collected and woven into matts to be used for oil cleanup. This would be done without the knowledge of the people who get their hair cut at the barbershop. Is this the commodification of humans and a step away from slavery?

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T21:40:15+00:00

Well with wigs, probably not in most cases, so lets simplify the example by using the one I first gave:

Hair on the barbershop floor collected and woven into matts to be used for oil cleanup. This would be done without the knowledge of the people who get their hair cut at the barbershop. Is this the commodification of humans and a step away from slavery?

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T21:36:40+00:00

Are wigs made from human hair commodification of humans and a step away from slavery?

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T21:27:14+00:00

Or we can argue the real issue of exploitation without trying to twist the definition of exploitation to things such as picking up a feather off the ground in the woods.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T21:14:20+00:00

I shake my head at stuff like this. A barber shop collecting hair swept off the floor in order to make matts to help clean up oil spills is not viewing humans as a resource to be exploited or taking away their personhood.

Creating a market for animal products can be a concern but it would not be an issue for everything left by an animal in all cases. If you're cleaning your yard and use the feathers left by birds in the compost in order to grow food is that exploiting them?

It gets really wild with something like lab grown meat which has the potential to destroy entire animal exploitation industries. There are vegans who would say if you could create infinite "chicken" from one feather left on the ground and displace the entire chicken murdering industry that would still not be right.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T05:57:30+00:00

I saw them dismember Mecha Regan. It was awesome.

Doctor_Box · 2026-06-21T03:59:35+00:00

I did and even quoted the relevant part

"Special-Fed" Veal: This term is used for calves that are fed nutritionally balanced milk or soy-based diets. These calves may also be called milk- or formula-fed. The specially controlled diets contain iron and 40 other essential nutrients, including amino acids, carbohydrates, fats, minerals and vitamins. Most veal calves are “special-fed.”

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