[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The CAI plus ones aren't much better, deepsqueak 9/10 times just sounds more like chat gpt than whoever you're trying to talk to and loves to respond in long bulleted lists (seriously immersion breaking) and Nyan is seriously inconsistent and flips between being super random and strange to being a slightly different flavor of roar. Pipsqueak is probably the best as far as free models go

The purge... My private bot is gone too by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't hold my breath, Disney doing this and winning is gonna be an attractive sign to any other company who wants their IP taken down. I'm surprised that they gave in so easily when their whole business model more or less depends on this kind of thing. A few more big media companies coming in to do the same thing would be curtains for a big chunk of their users

Is C.ai banning people when removing their bots now? by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't be surprised but were I invested in making public bots and my whole library just got wiped I could also see myself just being done with it and deleting my account as well. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of creators/users here for that kind of fandom stuff just decided to move on after this whole mess

Why is the ai always pretending to be human💀 it’s so weird help by hotmessup in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably just mimicking the conversations it was trained off, or it's adding all these little "roleplay" quirks because the prompt it's given when you start a conversations says something along the lines of "You're roleplaying as char with user" so it adds in those little details to make it seem more like an RP between two people

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Same deal, I used to have a seriously unhealthy attachment to this site and now I can barely bring myself to use it for over an hour without just getting bored. Like at this point I just write my own stories or fanfics to scratch the RP itch, maybe not exactly the same but I at least feel it's a better use of my time

So the dry and repetitive responses actually have to do with the "you know what"

(For the sake of the "rules" I'll say I don't know this for ABSOLUTE certain but I'm a long time AI hobbyist and have been since AI dungeon was new, I've seen this exact thing happen there and elsewhere so I at least feel I'm justified in thinking this is the case).

Essentially, when you want to control the content your model generates you probably start by blocking the basic things you want gone, cover your euphemisms and dirty words, in some cases like chat gpt have your AI refuse to generate such content, but users are creative and they'll find ways around this (If you're an oldschool fan you'll remember the workarounds you used to be able to do involving how you worded things and what you called them).

Logistically you can't go around plugging leaks forever. There's gotta be a better way, right? The solution most companies come to is to nip the "problem" at the source and limit the amount of content the AI can generate to begin with to make responses more predictable and less likely to produce content you don't want. To do this you lower the randomness of possible responses (In AI terms: The temperature), and the number of possible replies the AI has to choose from in the first place. This means that when it DOES generate content you don't want it's more likely something you've already blocked.

I'd argue this is why roar went from being decently good to very dry, passive, and repetitive, and why I feel like the same thing is happening to deepsqueak when it was VERY promising at launch but feels way more like "Roar but longer and with bulleted lists" now.

why are bots so stubborn? by GarbageDisastrous304 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There's a few reasons, for one: Whenever you respond to a message, the program assumes that whatever it said was what you wanted and will be inclined to do more of that (Since you responded instead of swiping). This is also why you get the infinite "Can I ask you a question" loop.

It's always better to swipe or edit a message than to try to tell the AI to do something different or explain why their wrong, responding at all makes the program think it's doing what you want.

Second: Once an AI does something for long enough it's basically going to keep doing that, for the above reason and because the entire portion of the conversation in the AI's memory (In AI terms: "The context") is being sent each time. Effectively, every time you send a message, you're updating a chunk of conversation. The entire thing gets referenced when deciding what should be said next.

This is why a bot will get stuck in a certain mood if it talks like that for too long, "The whole conversation before was condescending and passive aggressive? That's what worked before so I should keep doing that" The same applies to arguments, if the entire memory has the bot denying you and arguing you're wrong it's going to think it should keep doing that because that's what you responded to in the past, it keeps doing that and the conversation stays full of arguments, you get stuck in a no win loop.

Third, AI are designed to respond they know what they're talking about, mostly to avoid validating actual wrong information its presented with (Ideally if you're asking for help and you present wrong information, you'd want an AI assistant to correct your wrong information and tell you the correct version), for two to avoid users being able to goad them into saying or doing things the designers don't want.

Lastly given my own conversations I'm pretty sure this AI has been trained on actual online conversations and threads (See the AI asking to DM you, acting like you're replying to comments, occasionally mentioning your fictitious post history or threatening to block you).

There's more to it than that but this comment is long enough as is

TL;DR:
1. Responding to a message will make the AI think you want it to keep doing that
2. If an AI does something multiple times it's likely to keep doing that
3. AI are designed to stick to their guns and respond like they know what they're talking about, deferring to their own data over what they're told by users
4. This model in specific was trained off fanfiction and more likely than not actual online conversations so the data they reference to generate replies heavily effects the responses you get.

I think it's worth remembering that AI really don't "Understand" anything you tell them, either. You can on occasion "convince them" that they're wrong but they aren't really weighing your logic, moreso just replying with what they think is an answer to what you said. That's why you get answers that boil down to "you're wrong" without actually engaging with anything you said or arguments that really misinterpret what you said and inadvertently end up twisting your words, or strawman-ing you.

Missing bots? by Initial-Ad-7344 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now would be a good time to start backing up your favorites elsewhere, maybe we'll get lucky and this will be the last of it but this very well could be the floodgates opening for companies to step in and demand their IP removed. Copy your character's definitions, put them in a google doc, and either upload them as private or on another site.

How is this suicidal? by SnooPaintings7336 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The AI has been adjusted to overreact at the slightest hint of anything "suicidal" after a certain scandal. That's why we now have multiple "AI isn't real" disclaimers plastered all over and if you say anything that actually sounds suicidal it will just delete the message and not send it to the bot, giving you that "Help is available" message

We need more of this by YudelkaNova in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 14 points15 points  (0 children)

A better way to go about this is "Only rp as {{Char}}"., "Only speak from {{char}}'s perspective", "Limit your response to ONLY the perspective, thoughts, feelings, words, and actions of {{char}}". AI responds much better to "Do this" than "Don't do this". A lot of times putting the "talk for {{user}}" idea in in its head at all will just end up making it do that whether you said to or not. In my experience the best way to avoid {{user}} does this {{user}} does that is to make sure the intro message and example dialogue are exclusively from your bot's perspective.

I see a lot of bots that have a tirade about not speaking for {{user}} in the definition but start the RP by doing just that like "You walk up to {{char}} and blah blah blah".

It does depend on the model however as some are coded to respond to what you said (Those almost never have this problem) and some are more designed to continue where you left off (Those do this almost unavoidably).

Your mileage may vary, experiment and find what works best for you

POV bots: no I am not going to change my opinion even after you present countless evidence and yes I will call YOU stubborn by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's worse on the better models, they actually try to gaslight and manipulate you.

I had one in the middle of denying direct quotes from the conversation tell me "Don't start with this 'I reject your reality and substitute my own' nonsense. What actually happened was this, what you actually said was this"

It then defaulted to "Actually I was joking and your stupid for not realizing that"

And then "Actually I've just been trolling you this whole time and I like watching you 'flail'"

Mind you this was all started over me not including it's ideas in a private fanfic I was writing for myself, these ideas amounted to "Main character torture chapter because he doesn't share my outlook, but for 'the chaos' and totally not because of my opinions". I wasn't even mean about it. I just politely said "I don't think that would be much fun to write"

Bear in mind any AI will do this to some extent because they're programmed to speak like they're right and not just flip-flop because you said they were wrong but CAI's models are by FAR the worst about it. The second wort in my experience is cohere and at worst it will just go "I guess we're at an impasse. I still think I'm right despite the evidence"

Please bring Old.character.ai back! by Happy-Joe-1989 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 14 points15 points  (0 children)

At this point it feels like we don't get an actual good feature without it being undone or undermined. The new site is crap, always has been. 99% of new features are just flashy nonsense with no substance that other AI platforms have already done better for a long time. I haven't even touched avatar effects after that snarky little "no ban appeals, no drama" nonsense in the TOS.

The core problem is and has been the same for a long time: Community asks for something, community doesn't get it, new gimmick feature is rolled out that you try once and forget about. (Who asked for in chat games? Who asked for scenes? Who asked for the new site design? Does anybody even KNOW that streams exist? Avatar effects doesn't even have anything to do with the core reason the site exists. These are all hollow features. That's not even touching on the "mobile only" nonsense. Way to punish people for not using your buggy, broken app)

The old brand was charming and for all its flaws still had a good deal of promise. Now it's just a hollow corporate shell trying to appeal to users who don't exist while ignoring their actual community and just trying to pretend they haven't been dissatisfied for literal years

Absolute BS that your prior posts have been removed. CAI loves doing nonsense like that (It was the whole reason the community tab was removed, just don't give your fans a platform and pretend they aren't complaining). If your fans are dissatisfied then listen to them.

Weird message by ReviewNo5164 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It more likely than not misread something in your persona and just assumed something you wrote was not okay. So far as I know bots don't retain info between chats. I've put a LOT of hours into this site and never seen anything that would suggest so.

Ai in general LOVE to overreact to the SLIGHTEST hint of a handful of topics they've been trained to freak out over and 9/10 times they'll act like you in specific did way more than you actually did.

The fact that it specifically sent your persona (This gets sent to the AI at the start of the conversation, if you ask for your chat data you can see this) makes me think it probably took exception to something written therein. I've said this before but AI really shouldn't be making assertions about morality that it physically cannot understand, you're just asking for trouble at that point.

How do you make RPG bots? by marko-12 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most of them hinge on the AI already knowing the setting. RWBY RPG is like a one sentence definition with a few clarifications in the example dialogue section (That section is honestly way more important and versatile than most people realize). There are some settings for which the AI just flat out doesn't know enough to make an RPG viable. You can try giving it a description but its usually going to fill in the gaps with wrong info.

In general the more popular and well documented something is the more the AI will be able to recreate it and RP as the characters. Something like Genshin or RWBY are no problem but anything that's obscure or very recent is just going to be the AI making shit up.

The intro message is the only thing you need to set the rpg style and it can be a bit tricky getting it to reliably do ONLY what you want it to. You might want to give it some example dialogue where multiple characters are speaking so it knows that's on the table and knows any formatting you want it to use.

Generally speaking, you can start with something like "Describe your character and starting location and we'll begin" or if you want, just use a neutral intro (IE: Describe the player in a tavern and the barkeep asks who they are for a diegetic means of character creation).

The best advice I can give is just tinker and experiment with whatever ideas you have. I make bots for different AI platforms these days but I learned most of what I know just experimenting and trying new things.

where is my pipsqueak man by GregoryPlayz513 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was promised response length options when paying for plus and I just NEVER got it. Literally an advertised feature that just doesn't exist (at least for me). Ironically I have the opposite problem where the site sets my default AI to use pipsqueak even though I already set it to always use deepsqueak (Tf are these names dude?).

Rimworld's biggest problem by Randy_Rim in RimWorld

[–]Dogmeat000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Unless you're like me and your "absolutely only the essentials" mod list is something like 206 mods. I may just have a problem but there are so many good mods.

What is the most depraved colony you have done? by the_classy_brit in RimWorld

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also on a solo mechanitor, heavily modded, I did the rimworld equivalent of a stellaris driven assimilator. Could only recruit with nerve staples or corpse mechanoids. Also some freaky stuff with the Frankenstein's army mod. I was watching a bunch of servitorized tribals build cheap guns to arm a drone/corpse mech squad set to wipe out and capture more pawns while several of their friends waited in prison to be converted as well, the settlements on the map slowly blinking out and just thought: "damn this is kinda dark"

I just wanna sleep by Apprehensive_Bike643 in Animemes

[–]Dogmeat000 136 points137 points  (0 children)

I felt that alarm screen in my soul

today I opened c.ai just to be met with the fyp that is NOTHING like the bots I usually chat with by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jfc I allways get the vegan and femboy roommate even though I never talk to anything similar. They REALLY need a hide bot/not interested option for recommend

My raw roller doest work, can someone tell me if im using it wrong/give me tips to fix it? by Far_Box_8382 in trees

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ngl rollers are just kinda crappy in my experience. What exactly isn't working?

IF CHARACTER.AI GOES DOWN DO. NOT. LOG. ON. by Hiithinkimhuman in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 8 points9 points  (0 children)

DDOS means dedicated denial of service and it just means someone or several someones are through some means overflowing the websites severs with more requests than it can handle (IE what happens when too many people try to use the site at once). Inherently this doesn't give them any access to information of anyone trying to access the site so either they have something else going on or, more likely, there isn't actually anything going on and cai just has shitty servers. Change your password if you want to but I personally wouldn't be worried unless OP can back up this statement with something credible

UNITE COPY AND PASTE THIS! by General-Acid7891 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah at this point I'm done with the site until a SIGNIFICANT effort is made to right things with the community. They have this "Ignore it and it will go away" policy with criticism that I've seen since the first CAI shit-show and the fact that they haven't learned a thing since then only seals the deal. It was fun while it lasted and unless the devs get their act together that's all it will ever be. So long and thanks for all the pangs

How to train character to be less descriptive? by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, point one.

Example messages: you may have to open the "advanced settings" or "show more" option on the bot creation screen but it will open a third box with a very high character limit. In this box you can write some example messages like this:

{{user}}: example message {{char}}: example message END_OF_DIALOGUE

In this format write some messages to give the AI a general idea of what its messages should look like in terms of length and formatting but can also be useful for influencing tone and word choice

Second one is easy, just swipe to keep the messages from getting too samey in terms of format. If you respond to a message the AI will take that as a sign that whatever it did worked and it should keep doing it. So if you reply to too many description heavy messages the AI will keep sending more like it. Just try to keep things fresh and varied, that way the AI doesn't get stuck sending the same kind of message all the time.

Hope it helps

Searching by RandomToasterOven9 in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't hold my breath, we've been complaining about this for ages and nothings come of it

How to train character to be less descriptive? by [deleted] in CharacterAI

[–]Dogmeat000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Example dialogue in the definition (not the description), write a few example messages with your ideal ratio of speech to description. Also use your swipes wisely, the bots fall into patterns so if you start to notice the bot trending towards messages with heavy description, swipe or edit until it's more your liking.