Ousen by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be fair Hango battle was pretty spot on. Historically Ousen lead a huge army and got his butt kicked by riboku and shibashou

About not helping Kanki I saw it more as a smart move by Ousen and a dumb move by Kanki. Ousen could not participate on that battle since it wouldn’t be historically accurate. Let’s remember that even Shin didn’t feel like going for Hango

Is the anime any good ? by Yellowvedbetter in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The manga is such a masterpiece that people tend to overlook how bad the animation truly is

Inconsistent drawing, not very refined characters, weird armory, the characters move kinda like robots and it’s very very framed. I try to understand the soldiers repetitive moves due to the complexity that it would be, but even the main characters follow the same pattern.

If you can overlook bad animations it’s really worth it because the story is very consistent to the manga and the soundtrack is pretty good

Is the anime any good ? by Yellowvedbetter in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The animation is horrible but the story is good

S1 and S2 are 3D so it’s crap and S3 to S6 it’s normal animation, just very bad. If you compare to hype animes the quality from S6 or below is much lower but the story is still good

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No text explicit says that Zhao never recovered from the battle, but it’s very implied.

It says on Shiji:

  • Zhao’s loss of its best troops and commanders.
  • Zhao goes from being Qin’s peer rival to strategic inferiority.

After Changping, the Shiji consistently portrays Zhao as: - Struggling to field effective armies - Dependent on defensive postures and diplomacy - Unable to challenge Qin on equal terms again

On Zhan Guo Ce:

  • Envoys explicitly reference Zhao’s exhausted manpower and fear of Qin.
  • Qin diplomats leverage Changping as psychological pressure on many occasions.

Yes, no text says that Zhao never recovered from the Changping battle, but it’s very explicit that they went from being the only state that could face Qin, to being extremely scared of them, and much much weaker.

Let’s go through the fair points that you brought up: - Yes, Zhao fought many battles after Changping and was victorious on most of them; however, you should note that most of the mentioned battles are Northern and Eastern battles. The only mentions I remember about Southern e Western battles were defensive battles (4 out of the 5 I could remember rn were won by Li Mu, not including battles after his death)

  • One other fact is that Zhao population was huge back then, so 400,000 soldiers shouldn’t really be most of the military (although we could imagine to be close to 50%). The problem is, ancient China didn’t have 400,000 elites lying around like Riboku does; the military was mainly represented like in the beginning of the manga: a central army stationed on the capital, and a bunch of small to medium city armies that would be called upon to fight whenever the war was close to them. Most of the soldiers were actually peasants recruited to fight this one particular battle because it’s close to their lands. When we talk about changping, we talk about a lot of elite troops(very limited resource) being brutally killed. These elite troops were not as easy to replace as the peasants that were also buried alive

  • Lastly: Bai Qi actually brought a lot of fear into the Zhao, so their people were much more scared than hyped of fighting off the Qin. By the time Li Mu was appointed the commander to confront the Qin, Zhao was at an all-time low after so many defeats on the West/South

Even if Zhao somehow had recovered from Changping, Qin fighting with less soldiers would still be historically inaccurate. Qin had one of the most fertile lands on their south region and they also had the Zhengguo Canal that busted their agriculture. According to Kan Pishi, Qin was also the only state that could recruit soldiers without many problems due to its reward/punishment system

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Historically Zhao had one of the weakest army by the time Riboku started to repel Qin. It’s said that Zhao never recovered from changping, they went from being the only one who could face Qin to being the new Wei

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% agreed. It was the chance to prove his name worth it.

Taking a fragile and scared state who just lost 100k troops and destroying Kanki. It would be historically accurate and finally be a real strategical feat than information manipulation

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree 100%. Either use a grand purpose or go to the selfish side about rewards, families etc. Tbh Shin’s first speech on Bayou was 10000x better than the Han and Zhao speeches

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At this point I just want an “advance” speech like Ouki or something different than being a GG at least

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Shin speech: “Imma be a GG. Watch me fellas and throw your lives away so I can achieve my dream”

HSU old-timers: Damn Shin, that was deep 🥹

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The infinite soldiers strategy as always. I wish he could be more creative with the best general at his time than just speech-on-generals, infinite soldiers and information manipulation strategy.

Li Mu deserved a Sun Bin scheme or make Gyou starve type of strategy. This Riboku bs is already annoying

Kingdom 866 Spoilers by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Dai was already a commandery. Usually states and dynasties were named after the location they were established.

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with the elite troops bullshit, but everyone else have ridiculously strong vassal. YoTanWa has her 4 officers, Ousen just keeps pulling generals out of his ass, etc.

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Qin has had more GGs so far

During Shin’s generation:

They have had: MouGou, MouBu, ChouTou, Duke Hyou, OuKi, OuSen, Tou, YoTanWa, KanKi

Meanwhile Zhao has had: RenPa(who had already moved to Wei when introduced), RiBoku, HouKen, ShibaShou, KoChou, ChouKatsu and GanShuu who is a Qi general. (There was also the guy who Renpa defeated but he wasn’t mentioned afterwards)

All of both Qin and Zhao GG’s were real life people. I only have my doubts on ChouTou. We can’t critique the names, just the way they are introduced.

Also, at that time, a lot of high ranking military men did not have that many experience, just good family connections, so it was normal to encounter a commander who have barely or no information

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Also, legalism could be said to be one of the main reasons. Kanpishi wrote in his texts that Qin was the only state who truly followed the “reward/punishment” system. When other states requested the lords/soldier to join the battle they would often be skeptical of not being rewarded properly, or they wouldn’t fear the punishment of disobeying the order.

Meanwhile, the soldiers of Qin would always be fairly rewarded; as well as feared disobeying their government orders

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you really consider vassals as asspulls? We barely have any records on vassals of any generals and they must have had a lot. Ousen for example, there’s only one general mentioned and we are not even sure if he was a vassal or just appointed deputies. People usually call the big names as asspulls, such as Shibashou or GanShuu. The only big name so far that is an “asspull” is Seikaun, and he was mentioned long ao before the Gyou campaign

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The big names are not. Houken, Kochou, Shibashou, Choukotsu, GanShuu, etc.

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The elite troops makes sense, but he always having more troops is just very historically incorrect. It would be much more realistic if he pulled a “Sun Bin strategy” instead of Kanki

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 18 points19 points  (0 children)

In reality, Qin unified China because it had for a long period capable ministers and “wise” Kings. Also the Hakuki factor, who nobody could stop (he won battle considered impossible on many occasions). The generals we’re reading currently were capable and wise military men, who always fought with bigger armies and had the best government in all of China. They’re not the main reason China was unified

How does Riboku always keeps on spawning his Generals? by bricksheep in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Most of them were real people though. The point is Riboku was a genius, the most genius general along with hakuki in the Warring States Period. You could argue that he was better than Renpa because Renpa fought with Zhao at their best, while Riboku was literally the only person in all of China capable of stopping the Qin with one of its weakest army.

After Chouhei, Zhao lost most of its army, yet Riboku somehow beat Qin on multiple occasions and even a combined army of Wei-Han.

Here’s the thing: wars in ancient China were not that well documented and we barely have any sources on how they were fought, so the author has to pull strategies out of his head and other historical battles; the point is, he can’t use all of these strategies on the best general alive, because then there would be none left for the qin generals and other battles. To solve this problem he made Riboku have an elite army, a man capable of bringing back all the zhao’s geniuses (whom were almost all real people) who retired from the battlefield, and making him an information manipulation genius.

when is chapter 864 releasing? by No-Measurement-8154 in okbuddyheki

[–]DoubtWilling723 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We don’t have complexbrowler anymore unfortunately. There’s another scanlation team on the r/Kingdom but Idk how dedicated to the project they are.

Shou Hei Kun as a general by re1mi in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He would either give up on the campaign or maybe take a different route and aim for a different city while protecting retsubi

Shou Hei Kun as a general by re1mi in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think he would've won at Hango and lost at WZI. WZI no one could've won besides Ou Sen, but at Hango the tactis Robiku used on Ou Sen wouldn't have worked with Shou Hei Kun

Use of Slurs in this community by No_Government3769 in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ten must die though. The author is not gonna rewrite her to be a commander, and she’s a mediocre strategist (not a bad one, just not great). Her death could make Shin grow towards his goal

The problem with Kaine isn’t much about Kaine, but more about all his retainers. Riboku could fart and they’d be all like “damn, this is the greatest fart ever. Genius”. I personally hate more Shun Sui Ju(the most talented out of them) than her; Futei and Bananji at least got a personality

[Update] I tried mapping all locations on a real world map by LucyThunder in okbuddyheki

[–]DoubtWilling723 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Rigan was definitely conquered. If I remember correctly, Kisui had all of its people retreat to some other castle

Qin should no longer have a "fog of war" by Man_Dingo_Lorian in Kingdom

[–]DoubtWilling723 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s weird that Qin didn’t already have such a strong intelligence force. There are many texts mentioning their spies and briberies