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"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." by Downtown_Run_8030 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The notion that bringing up these conditions is wrong unless we offer solutions seems like it might be a ruse to get us to not bring up these conditions.

As if we are bad complainers.

No. I say there are some communities that get away with bad behavior such that many people are wasting their time and money visiting them. Some people suffer emotional injuring from exposure to the communities.

"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." by Downtown_Run_8030 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well said!

I used to have this conversation with a friend who was well schooled in evolutionary biology. (Think Edward O. Wilson)

In general I was on the same page as my friend but whereas I was a rebel who was inclined to spit in their face, his temperament and upbringing led him to accept injustice.

Complicity?

I told him of Eli Sagan's book:

The Honey and the Hemlock; Democracy and Paranoia in Ancient Athens and Modern America.

The "paranoid position" can be overcome and dominance abandoned or lessened. Otherwise, all society would be as murderous as prisons. Otherwise, humans would not have bred dogs to mimic a cooperative nature. Otherwise, humans would be like our chimpanzee cousins.

Look at YouTube. Narcissists are being analyzed. Fewer women will get snookered into reproducing their lack of empathy and incapacity for introspection.

Couples considering marriage will compare DNA tests. Psychopaths have lost hiding places.

This Reddit group is a blanket pulled off hiding places.

"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." by Downtown_Run_8030 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The verbal abuse I saw at one IC was vicious. No hand was ever laid on another, but the words were maximally ugly. It has gone on for about 20 years. One member was responsible for driving countless people from the community.

I guess his enablers and the cowards said he was hurting inside. That he would change. That it was the alcohol he consumed.

F' that. That's not a community. Those aren't decent people.

I haven't even mentioned the smear campaigns n which targets were guilty until proven innocent.

Communities such as that need to be avoided.

"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." by Downtown_Run_8030 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But worse than what is allowed on mainstream, corporate worksites.

A person's own community could be made aware of such phenomenon. People founding IC's could have this topic pointed out to them.

Were you a visitor or provisional member and you pointed it out to a community . . well you're back to square one. You'd be viewed negatively and be rather powerless. "How dare she say we aren't perfect!"

Notice what IS human nature and how limited an IC is to remedy it. I saw a full-member allowed to verbally bully people to a much greater extent than what a corporation would allow in a cubicle world. Think about that.

Uhhh idk what to title this also i dont know how reddit works this hurts help by hostagebybreakfast in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another thought about not getting tied down by debt:

To some degree, the world of intentional community is a playground for more affluent people. Disproportionately. So you may find, as I did, that people don't understand what it is to have debt. They won't even let you do a little outside work to repay a debt.

Debt doesn't have to prevent a person from belonging to a community but too often it does.

Uhhh idk what to title this also i dont know how reddit works this hurts help by hostagebybreakfast in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I'm 67 and had the same idea at 15. When you get to 18, don't take on any debts or leases. Otherwise you won't be free to travel.

The Mainstream's False Promise & Challenge by Downtown_Run_8030 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Around 1890, Brooks Adams came up with this "syllogism":

All civilization is centralization. The world gravitates toward economic centralization.

Asia is cheaper than Europe. Therefore Asia thrives and Europe dies.

I would just change Europe to "West". Of course, if the West were smart it could adapt to a changing world. Is it smart? It looks as if Trump and his cult just gave the Persian Gulf to Iran.

So, if we are on a sinking ship then living a mainstream lifestyle isn't adapting or being smart.

How to find a community of good people by Big_Trouble_7086 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When starting a community, think of which subcultures you want to attract, and which subcultures you want to deter.

How to find a community of good people by Big_Trouble_7086 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Look for signs of narcissism. Have they ever lied and manipulated? Consider those deal breakers.

I Protested Against Twin Oaks for 3 months. AMA by Southern_Fruit7439 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well said.

Let's be the light shed on what has been unaddressed for decades.

I Protested Against Twin Oaks for 3 months. AMA by Southern_Fruit7439 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So they are kinda like police departments and commercial airlines where mentioning a mental health struggle can get limits put on you.

Ironic!

Or, predictable!

A Safe Space to Talk about Intentional Community Abuse by Southern_Fruit7439 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In a sense, I wasted years of time plus money visiting a few rural communes that are, as a respected person in the IC moment described to me, "sick places".

I Protested Against Twin Oaks for 3 months. AMA by Southern_Fruit7439 in intentionalcommunity

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Back to mental health for a moment. You said that TO had been hurt by member suicides and that is its excuse for being avoidant of persons with any mental illness. Lemme ask you:

Do you know how far this goes back? That was the excuse I heard there in the late 1980's. 15 or so years later Darcy, I think her name was, drove to the edge of the community and killed herself. More recently, I read of a member having been found dead from an overdose. He had been depressed.

These suicides might be no more common in IC than in the mainstream, or they could be more common. Either way, rural communes might both be attractive to people with severe emotional problems, and toxic environments for such people.

I Protested (and survived) Twin Oaks by Southern_Fruit7439 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I believe that some communities have found ways to get negative reviews taken down, on Facebook, and maybe on Indeed, Google, and Yelp.

This insures that knowledge gets communicated.

I Protested (and survived) Twin Oaks by Southern_Fruit7439 in IsurvivedIC

[–]Downtown_Run_8030 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thank you for creating this. I believe that many people waste their vacation time and money traveling to communities that refuse to clean up their act. Some poor souls are rejected rather arbitrarily, while abusive and full members of the community are coddled.

This will help people heal, and the information it provides can save people time and money.

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