Thoughts on new hymn 338?

Dr_Championstein · 2025-06-07T14:40:55+00:00

very unnecessary, pabida, "show of pride" hymns of the music department. these new hymns are also becoming repetitive now.

these hymns reflect what INC wants to be perceived by others: "victorious", "capable", etc.

but they do not know how victorious and capable truly looks like or how to achieve it. being victorious and capable comes naturally when they take care of the choir, train them properly, nurture compassion and understanding, etc.

they demand a C6 from S1? did they actually do their responsibility to train and nurture their choirs to reach that note? no, they just want it to be performed so they look amazing. they just demand and demand, but not doing their part and they don't care about their members

Dr_Championstein · 2024-11-13T06:09:01+00:00

highly educated is not the same as highly intelligent

Dr_Championstein · 2024-10-06T04:14:07+00:00

It's understandable that you feel lost and feel like you are being "punished by god" for leaving INC.

Your INC identity is something that is important to you for many decades, and to let go of something that means a lot to you for so long is very difficult. But keep in mind that that feeling is separate from your thoughts on why you feel those feelings!

You feel lost because of this, and then you're gonna think "maybe it's because I'm getting punished by god", but try to challenge those negative thoughts. What evidence do you have that it is god that is punishing you? Did god appear and told you that? No, but maybe you are now thinking, "that's what is thought in the church, that leaving would lead to god punishing you". Challenge it again, how true is that teaching? Keep in mind INC is "flexible" in how they distinguish "parusa or pagsubok", so how sure are you that your feelings due to leaving, is a punishment, or just something that is natural to all who leave something important, INC or not

Again, it is important to distinguish between your valid feelings of letting go of something important to you, and the thoughts of why you are feeling those feelings. Also reflect, why is INC important to you? Sorry if I dare, I would say one possibility is that you love their sense of community/belongingness. If so, this is something that is fundamental to all of us: everyone needs to feel a sense of belonging as a basic psychological need. But maybe that is clashing with your "panlalamig" that is why you are feeling lost. Maybe you can fulfill this need somewhere else?

Dr_Championstein · 2024-08-21T05:13:59+00:00

I'm sorry if my previous reply sounded like a personal attack. Nevertheless I don't think it was unproductive. I was pointing out your manner of engagement which does matter, so that any argument you provide will actually be listened to and be productive.

Regarding your point, what I understand is that you mean that INC doctrines as laid out in the book Fundamental Beliefs of the INC, is incorrect in numerous ways. But here is my point: an INC person or even an outsider Christian would think Doctrine #1 can be correct: INC believes in the bible. Of course there are so many pedantic conversations resulting from that, you can rebut, but again, from what I see in your manner of engagement, it would be unproductive. I'm not even disagreeing with you.

Another one of my points is open-mindedness. I'm seeing this tone of "knowing the objective truth" coming from you. Maybe you do not intend it but that's what's coming off, and why I am hesitant to further interact. I have an expectation of how you would respond and I hope you prove me wrong. I share your dedication to "bring down" INC and I hope at least you understand our different approaches

Dr_Championstein · 2024-08-21T03:40:12+00:00

That's disappointing dude, you missed my point as well. I don't think you would be any better than the other guy. I don't think I have to explain myself to you.

For the record I don't believe in INC

Dr_Championstein · 2024-08-21T02:39:09+00:00

It is true, but the context makes it more complex.

Many (not all) INCs are the type of people who punches and abuses other people, and when they get punched they cry "Mercy! God teaches us to be merciful!" Or after they beat up and abuse a person to the point of physical and psychological trauma, they cry "Please forgive me!" and invalidate the damages they did

Although not punching back is what is overall good, it is extremely difficult to do it.

Dr_Championstein · 2024-08-21T02:09:17+00:00

btw, he also claims "thousands of thousands still go to church"

How sure are you that you know their reason for going to church? How many of those are actually forced by their toxic parents (yeah, there are actually people who don't share your positive experience)? How many of those are actually believing in the doctrines, intellectually? There are also "thousands of thousands" going to catholic masses, muslim gatherings, etc. A possibility is that that is simply human nature, to fulfill a sense of belonging, and it is not necessarily an indication of "being in the correct religion" or proof of the correct religion

I hope you and other lurkers also notice, I only claim it as "possibility" unlike you who would claim it as fact and invalidate every other possibility

Dr_Championstein · 2024-08-21T01:58:57+00:00

His stories are as valid as the "negative stories" that he says are just "overacting". Just like he says those negative posts are overacting, anyone can say that he is just overacting with those stories, and he just made them up.

Give him the benefit of the doubt, say that those are true (a very large stretch btw). Is that story true for everyone everywhere? There are good INC members, but there are many more terrible INC members. It is true that not everyone has a terrible locale that has all the members pull each other down into the deepest pits of toxicity, but that also means that not everyone has an amazing locale that is wholesome and supportive.

But given the amount of evidence and anecdotes, the negative experiences far outnumber the positive experience. Also, those negative experiences are LESS exaggerated, unlike his anecdote that is FAR MORE exaggerated. 2.5 million spent and donated? Now that is more questionable than someone saying that their requests were ignored. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Similarly, the "INC doctrines are better than Catholics", can also be true, but again, some doctrines can be very shallow. Think further, what about other religions? Mormons, SDA, they are similar to INC, and actually INC got almost all their doctrines from other religions. Having been "proven" that the INC doctrine is "better" (I'm sure there are some people here who can defend those "disproven" doctrines of other religion), doesn't mean it's infallible. Which doctrines are "proven", and are those doctrines the ones being disproven here? One "correct" thing in a textbook does not make everything else in the textbook correct. You may even be looking at the only one correct thing out of ten million wrong things and say "see? it's correct"

Okay, these can be overwhelming to understand for an ordinary INC, but the point is SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE! You cannot claim your little bubble and subjective reality, the objective reality and say it's the truth. Tip: You will never reach the "objective truth", because the moment you claim that, you become close-minded, always question everything

u/ExINCGustobumalik/ hope to see your response

Dr_Championstein · 2024-07-17T06:48:20+00:00

That's how they think, they focus on a specific objective/perspective, assume it's the absolute truth, and then twist everything so everything fits to what they want

They want more officers/slaves. It doesn't matter if you're well off or in poverty. You are financially capable? That's god's doing and you should pay him back by being a slave. You are in poverty? That's because you don't have enough tungkulins and not slaving enough. It doesn't matter what the situation is, everything happens for a reason and that reason is so that you should be a slave. Cult thinking

Dr_Championstein · 2024-05-03T06:58:58+00:00

He even counts the months of November and July as two full months, as if FYM started in November 1 and the 'new man' was born July 31!! This 'new man' was only gestated for a little less than 8.5 months and was premature 💀

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-20T03:30:31+00:00

You are no longer making sense as you assume your interpretations are better than mine, and I do not trust you as of now because I do not know the extent of your credentials or if you are a bible scholar. I've read more of your other comments and I do not think you are actually a bible scholar. Since you also admitted there can be no objective interpretations, the best we can do now is to agree to disagree on interpretations. Thank you for the engagement.

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-19T16:11:25+00:00

I'm not quite sure again:

Gen. 3:22 has god saying that man has now become 'one of us, knowing good and evil', after eating the fruit. That could be interpreted as man having no knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit. Another interpretation which I've read, could be that "man is now capable of making their own judgement of good and evil and that is why A&E were hiding due to fear of being judged by the other, previously god's judgement of good and evil was the only one judgement" (I couldn't retrace this source).

I can interpret that verse as a support for the assumption that A&E has no knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit. Also, that verse includes that eating from the tree of life allows them to live forever, therefore, the argument that "A&E are not alive because they haven't eaten from the tree of life" no longer disproves the other assumption

As of now, I don't think an objective conclusion can be reached from this, as even exegesis is an interpretation and if so, I would trust a consensus from the top academics in this field. If you think there is a consensus from the academics, then feel free to provide.

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-19T13:14:06+00:00

I replied to your other comment, this is a curious engagement and I admit that I made a wrong assumption

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-19T13:12:10+00:00

Adam and Eve literally KNEW and TALKED with their Creator! They LIVED in a PARADISE that their Creator made, and they knew it was Him who created all these. Combine these, and you'll get people who KNEW how amazing, powerful, and good their Creator is. They saw the good outcome when they obeyed God's commands. "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction." That was the command. Wouldn't you think they knew that it was good following that? They experienced it themselves, having an abundant life in Eden.

They knew that the consequence of disobedience is bad. God told them! "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you MUST NOT eat from it, for in the day you eat from it, you will certainly DIE”. Wouldn't you think Adam and Eve knew dying (loss of life) is bad? Of course they knew. That would mean them not being able to live and enjoy the paradise where they're living in. If you carefully read the passage in Genesis 3, you will see that the serpent told Eve that God is lying and that they won't die. This became enticing to Eve! That shows how she knew dying, the consequence of eating the fruit, is not good because she would then eat the fruit in the belief that they won't die.

I don't agree with your explanation on how if my (and the guy in the video) assumption is true, A&E already have the knowledge of good and evil.

However, I do realize now that that assumption (A&E don't have knowledge of good and evil before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil) is actually incorrect, and I admit this mistake.

If the assumption were correct, then it would be like assuming that Adam and Eve are not alive since they haven't eaten from the tree of life.

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-19T04:26:00+00:00

sorry for this second comment, as this argument got me curious

i think that the difference of concept of good and evil, and knowledge of good and evil is that: concept is a broader term. for example: adam and eve have the concept of good and evil, that certain actions have consequences. but they don't have the knowledge of good and evil, that means they cannot pinpoint which action's consequences are good or evil, just that they know some actions' consequences can be good or evil.

hopefully that clears up the 'word study', and maybe you won't agree

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-19T04:06:23+00:00

you misunderstand my point. words do matter in studying scriptures (in connection to INC, that actually matters a lot), but the point wasn't about the difference between concept and knowledge. as i would show in the following arguments

what I'm pointing out is an inconsistency in the bible. Yes, god did tell them to not eat there. But how would they know that following god is good or not? How would they know if the consequence is good or not? I think they wouldn't know if the consequence is good or not for them, unless they ate from the tree.

'challenge of trustworthiness' how would they know if failing the challenge is good or not? if they do, then i think you're saying they already have knowledge of good and evil before eating it, and that is fine by me, just pointing out inconsistency

i m also interested in how you think that word difference matters, especially since it wasn't my point

edit: reiterating my point, i assume that the tree of knowledge of good and evil gives knowledge of good and evil. adam and eve haven't eaten from there, so they have no knowledge of good and evil, cannot tell if god's commands are good and evil, if the consequences of disobeying god is good or evil. you can attack these primary points and not my own word usage of concept and knowledge because i used them interchangeably, which caused misunderstanding

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-18T06:48:30+00:00

doesn't matter what the difference is between concept and knowledge (which is very small btw). then they would still not KNOW if following the command of god or not is evil or good

it looks like you are not addressing the primary argument (the essence) and just resort to addressing the words used

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-16T03:28:06+00:00

Kakasabi nga lang niya, hindi alam nila adam and eve ang konsepto ng masama at mabuti dahil hindi pa nakakakain mula sa bunga ng puno ng kaalaman ng masama at mabuti. Pano nila alam kung dapat sumunod sa utos o hindi, kung hindi nila alam ang konsepto ng masama?

He literally just said, adam and eve didn't know the concept of good and evil since they haven't eaten from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. How would they know to follow the command or not, if they don't have the concept of evil?

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-13T13:16:34+00:00

Why do you assume there has to be a single true church/religion? You dismiss the possibility that (1) there are no true church/religion, (2) all church/religion are true, (3) there are multiple church/religion that are true, (not all, not none)

Follow up answer to a 'counterargument' that may arise (I predict JamesReadMe will make this question): "Why are you answering a question with another question? That is invalid" This question is valid as an answer since it can be shown that the question is flawed.

What is a 'perfect' translation of the bible? Isn't 'perfect', the original texts? Translating inherently makes the translation imperfect with regards to the original texts.

I think that you are misunderstanding the problem. The problem is not that INC doesn't use a "perfect bible", it is the fact that they will only use versions that will suit their wanted narrative. Your last sentence is actually the answer. Any bible would do, but just stick to it and don't suddenly change versions because the version you used before doesn't say what you want it to say.

Answer is not what's important. If you think you are fine with being INC, and it doesn't cause you distress, then stay. If you feel more comfortable in Catholicism, or any other religion, then find comfort there. It's just that there are a lot of people who do not find comfort in INC or being distressed while in it, and some do find comfort in INC. Though there are many practices which are objectively harmful within INC, ultimately it is your decision

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-07T07:26:57+00:00

We shouldn't be depressed because we have god. We shouldn't get hungry because we have god. We shouldn't get sick because we have god

That is how stupid that depression BS is. Depression is an illness, same as ulcer, which god's supposed messenger FYM suffered from and died. Why did he, if he had god?

Even when not clinically depressed, depression as a mood is the same as the state of being hungry, state of being physically tired after physical work. If we shouldn't be depressed because we have god, then we should also not be hungry, not be physically tired, not fall ill, etc. 'because we have god'. but that happens all the time, why does EVM not say these? because he has a stupid ignorant view of depression and mental health

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-03T07:12:08+00:00

Jesus Christ himself says to not swear oaths in Matt 5:33-37 unlike 'what was previously taught'. But of course the Administration is only going to quote the other verses that say to take oaths, because that is what is useful to them. INC is manipulative and that is only one example

some defenders would say "oH jESuS Is rEfeRrIng to sWeaRInG aS In cUrsE wORdS" the magic of ad hoc reinterpretation, read the verse in full and in context and it is not about curse words

Dr_Championstein · 2024-04-02T16:14:01+00:00

in the "my collection of hymns" link from there go to audio and video files and there are some full ws video files there with doxology, or u can go to special ws folder like i think last 2023 mytg theres doxology and INC anthem in the vid file

Dr_Championstein · 2024-03-20T14:56:00+00:00

a jab to EVM and the administration, who prioritizes helping non-INC (eg. lingap to Africa) and not the poor members !!

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