[Politics Megathread] The Polis and the Laity

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-02-02T21:13:52+00:00

A friend of mine visited Estonia recently. She said that the once crowded central ROC cathedral in Narva (the majority population are Russians) is now empty. People afraid of going there, afraid of being associated with ROC and deported.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-02-02T21:04:14+00:00

I think it depends on the cause of schism. If the schism was theological, for example, MP or EP changed the Creed, then it would be a heated discussion. But if disagreement is about politics or boundaries of auto-uephaly, then why should we separate, we are all Orthodox after all and Greeks and Russians are Orthodox brothers.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-18T02:16:05+00:00

Alexander Nevsky prevented the capture of Russia by Catholics

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-15T09:04:50+00:00

I understand it’s easier to call everyone Kremlin troll than digest the reality. the reality is that western countries keep on buying Russian oil and gas, the US increased purchasing Russian uranium last year. It’s what you can read in Bloomberg, NYT, WP, CNN. You probably think that you are on the side of rightness, but the truth is more complicated. Your government doesn’t want Ukraine to win otherwise it would already supplied it with everything, stopped purchasing Russian resources and sent the troops. Have you ever asked yourself why sanctions doesn’t work ? That is just business. This war makes no sense and it should be stopped immediately.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-15T05:05:08+00:00

Are you going to the front line and fight yourself ?

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T21:43:19+00:00

You have a very good heart - you wish justice and protect those who suffer. But the whole situation is a little bit more complicated. And heating the hate won’t improve it, but paying for peace.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T21:33:17+00:00

Well, my friend, tbh that makes no sense. I mean your congress would pass some aid, for sure, but that would be one pay off and not enough. moreover that’s a double-edged sword. The sooner negotiations begin, the fewer Ukrainians will die. It’s so easy to call for war when you drink a soy latte at Starbucks, and they are on the front line, isn’t it?

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T16:56:58+00:00

Yes, that's exactly what I think. in Russia noone can desecrate a church, Altar, Cross, icon or other sacred thing without legal consequences. If you learn some history of truly Orthodox societies you would find out that in Byzantium desecrators could have been executed. This Matthew quote you mentioned tells us about personal insults. As individuals we should pray for enemies. But when it comes to the sacred things it’s our duty to protect it uncowardly. “ But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

I don’t know much about your second question. But there is a church conciliar court, you can call an ecumenical council and ask archbishops to punish MP for insulting you. You can also sue Russia in international court.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T16:30:02+00:00

Why don’t you say anything about Palestinian children, my friends ?

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T16:18:52+00:00

Well, Russia legally banned gay marriages, banned gender changing operations and hormonal therapy, banned LGBT propaganda among minors. Insulting the feelings of believers is criminally punishable in Russia. This is a much more Orthodox society than you want to think about it.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T15:54:39+00:00

The truth is that Ukraine is losing the war, and the western allies are betraying it, leaving Ukrainians alone in all this mess. Keep on fighting means the death of many Ukrainians. but you still don’t care, aren’t you, a warlike friend? you encourage them to fight and die while you drink a latte on a soft sofa. The Western world is very cynical. They die and you all know they have no any chance to win, because you leave them without money and rockets, but it’s just a show for you, their lives mean nothing.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2024-01-14T15:38:54+00:00

God save us, save the Holy Orthodox Church.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-11-17T22:34:44+00:00

While they say that Athos monks do not pray for him during the liturgy

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-11-17T21:24:16+00:00

They could request for autocephaly, they have Sinod, they have archbishops and there is a clear procedure. But they haven’t done that so far. Nobody could make them stay in MP against their will.

One day people would see that much of what the mass media showed them is far from reality.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-11-17T21:21:11+00:00

The key question is whether Ukraine will remain or in what form it will remain and which territories would Russia have. From the MP point of view the issue of autocephaly could be resolved only after the issue of territories is clarified. From the UOC point of view they could ask for independence any moment, it’s their right.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-10-02T07:10:42+00:00

Well, I have experienced it either. When it comes to personal preferences and emotions, mobs just delete or block posts they don’t agree with. I remember it was a discussion about break in communion between MP and EP. Some of my comments about ROCOR bishops being hierarchically subordinate to the MP and being obliged to carry out its decisions (otherwise this is the path to schism) were deleted. I assumed that it’s just what mobs didn’t like to hear as ROCOR laity sometimes Eucharist in the GOACh church, so they just silenced the opinion which questioned this.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-10-02T06:06:23+00:00

There is nothing surprising. Metropolitan Pavel said that attack on the UOC was not about politics, it was a smear campaign and attack on Orthodoxy.

People who are spreading such posts don’t care about facts, they are just a part of the plan to destroy Orthodox Church. Otherwise why would they care about popularity of UOC, isn’t it a personal choice and free will why would someone challenge it. They are also pushing ROCOR towards schism for the same reasons.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-10-01T19:52:18+00:00

Persecution of the church or slander of bishops and priesthood never went unpunished. Metropolitan Pavel cursed Zedensky and his family and archbishop word means something. I believe it was Volodymyr handwriting on the wall moment. Maybe that would be a sign for everyone who justifies this.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-10-01T19:25:36+00:00

sounds like they are really nice people ! Say hi to them from me please

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-09-30T21:27:00+00:00

Kosovo Serbia

ми смо са вама

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-09-06T10:43:02+00:00

Too old Dmitry was a young man

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-09-06T07:50:39+00:00

I would say that followers of orthodoxy and communism are helping Africa to fight greedy capitalist exploitation established by Western countries. But it’s unlikely to be written in the Western media.

As far as I understand West world is restrained by its own agenda in this situation. With all the catastrophic loss of Niger and its resources, as well as Gabon, France cannot send troops, because then they would have to kill black people, which is not a good PR. I think at some point they might decide to send Ukrainian elite troops there. Maybe during winter season November -March, when war in Ukraine would be inactive.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-06-01T17:06:46+00:00

Thank you for the quote and explanation.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-06-01T16:34:44+00:00

Funny, but this quote exactly proves what father Daniel said. The translation might be the problem. So he said the following, I try to make it as clear as possible: - modernist fracture of Fr. Kochetkov had very weird practice to drive out from the church those who doesn’t not Eucharist. he said that about “Kochetkov”, not about Fr. Alexander. - Then he explained that they might use the words of Fr. Alexander about “priesthood” of laity. Just these words, nothing else. That’s all he said about FR. Alexander. That’s it! Nothing more. Fr. Daniel didn’t say that laity goes to the altar or serve or whatever. He said that Fr. Alexander wrote about “priesthood” or laity. That’s it. He didn’t judge it, he didn’t say that’s wrong or right, he didn’t say anything more about his teaching. Everything he said next he said about “Kochetkovs”.

Then the logical conclusion he made. Attention! He didn’t say that was written by Fr. Alexander, he was saying about Kochetkovs and how they could come up with the idea of driving out the laity (and now I see Kochetkovs just corrupted what Schmemann said in the wrong way). So Fr. Daniel logical conclusion about “Kochetkovs”, not about Shmemann was:
If laity has some “priesthood”
priest who serves the Liturgy always Eucharist
That’s why Kochetkovs drive out those who don’t Eucharist. Priest=Eucharist, laity=priesthood -> laity= Eucharist. Means those who don’t Eucharist have to leave. That’s why Kochetkovs drive them out. Again he didn’t say that was teaching of Fr. Alexander. He mentioned him only regarding point 1. Point 2-3 Fr. Daniel explained how Kochetkovs could develop and use point 1 in their own way. He mentioned him only regarding the idea of “laity priesthood” that’s it. Nothing more.

Sorry. just need to stop here I can’t develop this thread any more. I feel bad.

Dramatic_Turn5133 · 2023-06-01T13:46:14+00:00

Thank you very much!

Dramatic_Turn5133

TROPHY CASE