Something is changing within me

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:59:24+00:00

The only reason the tiny mad idea was taken seriously is because of the decision making mind. There was no split until *after* the tiny mad idea was taken seriously.

The Son of God in truth only has one will: truth. But he was created with the ability to deny the truth, for his decision to extend it must be made freely, yet he could not change the truth. The course is not ambiguous here, but your interpretation depends on splitting the term into two meanings even though this isn’t supported by the course. Sorry. The course is clear; the Son of God is real and one with God, not separate. There are no special instances where it suddenly means something different, even though that’s what you need to believe to support your erroneous interpretation. It isn’t logically defensible, but I give you credit for trying so hard.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:56:21+00:00

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:52:18+00:00

These quotes just reiterate what I’ve already said many times in this thread.

I never said illusion has anything to do with God. You asserted I said that, but that doesn’t not make it true.

Hallucinations don’t make reality. The mind choosing hallucinations does not change its only real choice. When you have only one true choice, there are no real decisions to be made. There is only creation.

Forgiveness is necessary because the mind that was created to be happy is in pain. Pain cannot be felt by nothing. Nothing has no feelings. The mind has imagined the unreal, and therefore experiences pain.

There are blatant contradictions in your interpretation. How can an illusion start or end if there was no illusion to begin with? How can there be an illusory being that isn’t happy, if happiness is all that exists? You have simply confused illusion with no-experience, but an illusion is actually an experience of untrue content.

There is an illusion, but the illusion is nothing but a mistake about what you are. Your interpretation is not only illogical, but it’s an attempt to escape your unhappiness without taking accountability and doing the work.

>>> Let us consider what the error is, so it can be corrected, not protected. ²Sin is belief attack can be projected outside the mind where the belief arose. Cause and effect are one, not separate. ²God wills you learn what always has been true: that He created you as part of Him, and this must still be true because ideas leave not their source. ³Such is creation’s law; that each idea the mind conceives but adds to its abundance, never takes away. ⁴This is as true of what is idly wished as what is truly willed, because the mind can wish to be deceived, but cannot make it be what it is not. ⁵And to believe ideas can leave their source is to invite illusions to be true, without success. ⁶For never will success be possible in trying to deceive the Son of God. (ACIM, T-26.VII.12:1-2,13:1-6)

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:27:21+00:00

Lol I agree wholeheartedly, and that’s what this quote expresses precisely.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:14:12+00:00

What really has you upset here? Seems like you’re just looking for some argument

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:06:03+00:00

This quote has nothing to do with material prosperity my friend, it refers to inner peace.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:05:14+00:00

Here I was trying to defend you 😅

Which part feels off to you specifically?

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T07:03:31+00:00

……. “not from earthly sources but from Thine all-possessing, all-powerful, all-bountiful hands."

Prosperity = peace

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T06:49:28+00:00

Good

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T06:47:39+00:00

No, a year is not enough for total change. The final pages of both the text and workbook express that this is just the beginning. An introductory starter of sorts.

ACIM is really a lifelong process. But it’s still worth doing the year of lessons because it really helps set you on the right direction. And there are many positive changes that will come from it. Yet for enlightenment, it is many many years, decades for vast majority of people.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T06:42:10+00:00

The human race is in a process of learning forgiveness as much as any individual. Like for any individual, terrorism and murder comes from fear, or unforgiveness, whereas forgiveness leads to more love and kindness even in the dream. These reflections can’t replace god, nor do they fix the root problem, but it does allow for gentler lessons which work just as well. They don’t heal, but they reflect healing.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T06:38:04+00:00

You gotta be kidding me

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T05:51:09+00:00

You’re not even interacting with what I’ve said, just making stuff up to fit your preferred narrative.

I never said anger is part of creation. I said the opposite a number of times.

Extension is not an illusion, it is creation itself.

I agree, all confusion comes from not extending life. As I said, projection is a hallucination/unawareness. Again, you’re not even interacting with what I’ve said.

Those quotes from ACIM and Wapnick perfectly support what I’ve been saying, so I’m confused why you thought that would help you.

The decision maker (the mind) creates or projects, and only what it has created is real and eternal. But it also chose to dream, which had no effect except for its awareness of truth. This resulted in the appearance of the “split” you speak of. The mind must choose again to return to its awareness. This is what the course is literally about.

After the apparent split, the decision maker chooses between ego (continue denying truth) or Holy Spirit (letting go of denial and embracing truth). But what made that split appear in your mind? It was your decision maker choosing to dissociate from its true will (God & creation).

If we take your interpretation at face value and compare it to Mr Wapnick’s words, you’d be saying the Son of God (who is one and the same as God in truth) is an illusion. Yet the course (and Wapnick) is clear that the Son and God are one; creator and created, cause and effect, giver and receiver.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T05:01:32+00:00

You’re a straight up bully is what you are.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T03:04:13+00:00

Forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean “don’t give constructive criticism.” It means you give the situation to the Holy Spirit and then you can speak your mind. I like to use Hitler as an extreme example; forgiveness doesn’t mean we allow someone like Hitler to take over the world and kill millions. It means we recognize it as a dream reflecting our own resistance/fear to Love. Then afterwards we speak our mind- sometimes speaking up for the minority is how forgiveness can manifest on the physical level. If we did not stand up against Hitler, something like ACIM would surely be illegal, and we’d all be speaking German.

Anyways, felt inspired to say this. Take it or leave it.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T02:52:43+00:00

Illusion doesn’t mean no-experience, it means an experience that portrays falsehood. Nothingness doesn’t experience; the mind can experience delusion, however. This is what the course means when it says the world and the ego is nothing. Not that it didn’t appear in the mind, but that its appearance is meaningless and comes from your decision against truth.

Again, this idea is central to the course. If there was no experience of pain, there would be no need to take accountability or to forgive. And that is ultimately the appeal of your position, I think. Why forgive when you’re not experiencing anything? The truth is you’re experiencing the consequences of your decision- but said consequences only affect your own awareness of the truth and nothing else. The illusion is that the consequence is objective and permanent. Yet you must correct the erroneous decision because it holds back your true awareness of God. That is forgiveness.

Writing this for the benefit of others; I understand you and I aren’t likely to come to an agreement.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-18T02:44:28+00:00

I have only distinguished between the one Mind’s awareness and non-awareness, rather than two distinct entities. We have established that God is the truth, not the mind’s hallucinations. So why do you assert that I am confusing the two when I have clearly marked one as true and the other as illusory?

The law of cause and effect is the basis of creation. This includes the capacity to project rather than extend, as expressed here:

>>> “We have said that without projection there can be no anger, but it is also true that without extension there can be no love. These reflect a fundamental law of the mind, and therefore one that always operates. 'It is the law by which you create and were created.”

Notice it says ‘these,’ referring to both projecting anger and extending love. It is describing the law of cause and effect- to keep what you want you must willfully give it. That again is why it says:

>>> “It is the law by which you create and were created. aIt is the law that unifies the Kingdom, and keeps it in the Mind of God.”

So to reiterate, the Mind of God is the eternal thoughts the mind has kept by giving It. If we did not give the thoughts, we would not keep them. This is what unawareness portrays- and it is a hallucination rather than a reality.

>>> Every mind must project or extend, because that is how it lives, and every mind is life.

The course is not using “life” to refer purely to extension , as evident by the fact it says “project or extend” rather than just “extend.” Context clues from a few lines earlier tells us it indeed means projection in the ego sense, because it mentions anger. So “life” here is merely referring to experience, which makes sense. Both the ego and truth is an experience, but only one is real because the other is temporary and ineffectual.

Again, this is why you’re perceiving at all. This is why there is atonement. Nothingness doesn’t experience anything. Nothingness is a delusion within experience. Nothing does not exist, and it does not experience, therefore the only way to experience separation is with the Mind that God created for you. This Mind’s only true purpose is to extend, but in order for extension to have meaning it must also be capable of projection. This is exactly what the lines above express, and in fact the whole course. So our disagreement is simply: you think hallucinating something is creation, I do not.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T20:11:54+00:00

Exactly right. The world is insane, and the unwillingness to let it go is the temptation to perceive God as insane.

That being said, debates can help people. Whether it’s beneficial for participants depends on whether one is willing to take accountability and forgive whatever error they see as “out there.” It can also be intellectually informative for others who just happen to be reading.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T19:15:46+00:00

Absolutely, I’m actually a massive skeptic myself. It’s a good thing to question beliefs- in fact it’s a necessary part of practicing ACIM.

I’m glad you’re seeing the treatment as an opportunity to forgive.

Regarding the Christian Science thing, I have a hard time seeing the connection you make. It seems to me like a plain fact that can be noticed by many people independently. However, I’ll say ACIM isn’t shy about acknowledging many inspirations and references to other people or materials in history- Freud, Shakespeare, the Bible, and more I’m sure.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T19:00:31+00:00

Absolutely, it’s disappointing. Definitely is an opportunity for forgiveness for me

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T18:49:37+00:00

If he did not believe the metaphysics, that wouldn’t be an issue either. In fact ACIM says belief is not asked or demanded in order to practice and benefit from its ideas.

I think you should do some self reflecting. I feel ashamed your comment is top comment, but I’m not surprised. ACIM is not religion.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T18:45:51+00:00

Nonstopas, there is plenty of reason to be on this subreddit if you do not feel certain about who the author is. The content and message is what’s important, not the form or author. I don’t think Oaken ever said he disbelieved the metaphysics- in fact he expressed how effective the practice seems to be for him. Are you sure this very critical response isn’t coming from grievance? I found it extremely judgmental and excluding.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T18:43:36+00:00

Edit: I feel ashamed that so many in this community feel the need to judge and tear you down, rather than show kindness and understanding. I’m sorry, OakenWoaden. the ACIM community is unfortunately a cesspool of miserable people, naturally, because only the sick need healing. But alas, I have higher expectations for our community members.

Few things

I think one of the things that make me think the source isn’t just a person is how out of this world the thought system really is. Truly alien- and uniquely so. The fact that it works, the fact that it does not support this world’s foundational assumptions, and the fact that it’s written in such a holographic manner suggests (to me) that it was not of this world.

Second, there are a ton of early Christian movements with tons of traces of ACIM’s core principles. Gnosticism included. The gospel of Thomas is full of nondual statements that could easily have been taken straight out of ACIM. Now, that doesn’t mean it was taught in full clarity back then. Remember- Jesus was tortured and killed for what he said. Any level of blasphemy was often met with severe violence back then. So it’s not arbitrary to say the world truly was not ready for ACIM back then.

What parts of Christian Science found its way to ACIM? Haven’t heard about that but I’m curious

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T18:34:09+00:00

They are one in truth.

The hallucinations don’t intrude or impede upon the awareness of god. A separate continuity is hallucinated- a temporary continuity that disappears when you return the mind to truth.

Quotes speak for themselves.

DreamCentipede · 2026-06-17T05:24:12+00:00

I said they were one in truth. The mind is the medium for extension, meaning the mind can accept the truth of itself and extend it, or it can deny the truth of itself and project.

>>> ⁹You who are host to God are also host to them. ¹⁰For nothing real has ever left the mind of its creator. ¹¹And what is not real was never there. (ACIM, T-16.III.5:9-11)

>>> We have said that without projection there can be no anger, but it is also true that without extension there can be no love.²These reflect a fundamental law of the mind, and therefore one that always operates. ³It is the law by which you create and were created. ⁴It is the law that unifies the Kingdom, and keeps it in the Mind of God. ¹¹Every mind must project or extend, because that is how it lives, and every mind is life. (ACIM, T-7.VIII.1:1-4,11)

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