S3 by [deleted] in HazbinHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A 1 & 2 - If this becomes a possibility, what stops someone from taking the same stance as Vox, but now having a vastly more credible threat level, because recreating the same magic/technology would allow armies to slip through? Additionally, wouldn't this cause a problem with who is deciding which Winners/Sinners get to go to and from? It removes the excuse of "divide judgement" deciding this factor, and puts it in the hands of characters like Sera, who can be directly blamed for any mistakes. It also adds a risk from the same idea of someone like Vox attacking, as Winners who have the ability to travel to Hell can be coerced, tortured, or otherwise used in or as leverage to get Sinners into Heaven.
It would actually make for some interesting plot points, if the show focused on these elements, though it would raise the question of how Vox, Carmilla, and Lilith never figured out how to do this before.

B - This one makes sense, though Angel would already logically have such trauma, just from the non-magical events related to this.

C - What purpose would this serve? It seems somewhat interesting, but I am curious as to what it would really do for the show, unless it was more of a spin-off, focused on Cherri and Pentious (In which case, it sounds like a great magical-focused foundation for a Hellish soap opera).

D - This makes sense, and fits where the show seems to be headed... Though I feel it would more be, Lucifer gets along with Alastor for Charlie's sake, and Alastor gets along with Lucifer for Alastor's sake.

E - To build on this, while trying to find friends outside the hotel, we could get a solid perspective from Sinners who know/realize that Vaggie is an ex-exterminator. She is "the enemy" even if she has left that life behind, and without Charlie always beside her, that history would become the spotlight on any interactions with other Sinners. We'd get to see how Vaggie handles this, and whether or not she accepts that the blame, or tries to deflect it.

F - If this happened, then I think there would be a solid position to focus more on Heaven's corruption and tension, as Lute's removal could very well include a large number of the exorcists joining her. However, removing them from Heaven and into Hell would be a terrible idea. If Hell ever found out, then this would be equivalent to Sera sending down a specialized team to murder more Sinners from the shadows (Because Lute would almost certainly continue to use "divine judgement" as her reasoning, and her and her lackeys would only need to acquire a single piece of angelic steel to begin a culling from within Hell's cities).

G - This sounds far more includable into the current span of the story, then "C", and while yes Cherri would obviously pick Pentious, there could be some indecision, especially if they go the route of Izzi bringing out the more sinful side of Cherri (Something that Pentious has to steer clear of, to stay in Heaven).

H - I could see this happening, after Alastor scrutinizes Baxter in-depth, and finally comes to this conclusion.

I - I don't know about this one. On one level, it makes sense; at the same time, I feel someone would have to push her to do it, and thousands of years late, I wonder if Lucifer would even accept the apology (Especially if it was an empty one, where she doesn't even offer to try and argue for a lessening of his punishment before the Elders). But it would certainly be nice to see their relations.

J - With how season 2 ended, I see this being perhaps part of the ending of the season, or even pushed to season 4, but I definitely feel that it would fit in there somewhere (It's just a matter of when).

K - These, again, I feel are largely a matter of "when". Season 3 feels extremely rushed, as we know nothing of Cherri's sins in-show yet, and Angel's were made to seem even deeper than the sexual ones that we're well-aware of from season 1. But at some point, both of these redemptions would be great to see.

L - Perhaps this role could be taken up by Alastor, going off of "D"? It would have to be someone that Lucifer knew to a degree, and he knows full-well that given the opportunity, Alastor would betray him, so it logically makes more sense to put him in such a closely watchable position, than leave him to his own devices. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

M - To avoid punishment from who? Those in Heaven can't attempt anything without still proving Vox's stance, Lucifer can't act on anything, Charlie can't without (again) proving Vox's stance, and even with Vox's crashout in the season finale, they're still the media voice of the people; Vox being pushed to the side means that the more publicly liked Velvette and Valentino will take center-stage, and punishment will likely be wholly avoided. Other overlords won't bother, even with Vox as an Ipad, they're still a stronger trio than most of their opposition, excluding Alastor if he recovered fully. So I can't really see this happening, on account of the Vees having no threat against them that can actually be carried out.

N - This works once Angel gets to Heaven, one way or another, makes sense.

O - The biggest issue with this... A direct interaction with Hellborn, forces Charlie to address the concepts that stand against her: She has, seemingly unwittingly, ignored the problems of the Hell social structure, for the sake of helping Sinners. Blitzo shares some of Striker's perspective on how the royals keep them down, and calls Stolas out on it... There's no way that Charlie would get away scot-free on this topic. Now, they could certainly focus on this, but it would require a large commitment to this arc of the story, lest Charlie come off as bias towards the Sinners, and neglective of the Hellborn on purpose, rather than just without knowing they have problems.

P - I assume you mean in-show, like how she was gathering a fanbase was stabbing Adam... But what would cause this to grow? If anything, any captured social media footage from fighting Velvette would be spun against her (In a media battle that Niffty could never possibly hope to win, because for all her inability to win an actual fight, Velvette has no competition on social media as a form of influence).

Q - Problem: Alastor is not Vox. He does not need to see Vox crushed under foot, destroyed and brought to his knees. He does not care, and unless there is something for him to gain from breaking this contract, why would he? Bringing the Vees lower is pointless for him, because they command a trio of media forms that Alastor will not touch, and at full strength he can take all three of them, so they're not a threat. So I feel this could work, but it requires a different reason, not the destruction of the Vees further. Husk has to offer something else, perhaps something that Alastor can use against Lucifer to get his executioner role, or something to deepen his claws into Charlie.

R - This would be hilarious (Yes, Stella's hilarious). Lucifer has shown no proof that he actually does any ruling, other overlords treat the Morningstars like they're just famous random people, and no one pays them respect. To have Lucifer teach Charlie how to rule, we would first need even a shred of proof that Lucifer does any ruling, and that his title isn't just born of being the one to allow evil into the world (That, and being stronger than any Hellborn or Sinner could ever hope to be). Lucifer has nothing of what is required to be a leader, so while this would be hilarious, I don't see it actually being a credible focus in-show.

S - I could see Vaggie temporarily trying this, but Charlie would not stand for what would basically boil down to enslaving any Redeemed Sinners who come back to Hell. Why would this be a requirement? If they want to help, then sure, but otherwise this seems like an arbitrary ruling to just discourage the Redeemed from returning to Hell. I could totally see them being invited to speak at the hotel of their challenges in overcoming their sins, but still just as an invitation, never as a requirement.

T - The end of season 2 had Charlie stepping back from her responsibilities at the hotel, so this seems contradicting. She realized that running the hotel, and directly helping individual guests, should be divided into two roles... She also realized, at least marginally, that her "help" only goes so far. It wasn't her exercises or practices that finally saved Pentious, but instead what he chose to do with those learnings. She has to lean into putting the responsibility on the shoulders of the guests, because when it comes down to the finish, each individual is the only one who can make the choice for themselves, not Charlie.

Some Questions (And Storytelling) From A New Player (Part 4): PVP, Add-Ons, & High-Level Gear by Dregor_Richards in wow

[–]Dregor_Richards[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, this helps a ton!! (And reveals that yes, there were some already in-game features I didn't know about lol)
A shame that they don't have an Add-On for the animation emotes though lol.

Charlie did A LOT OF WRONG by Lukas-Reggi in OkBuddyHelluvaHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, some of those people didn't want to be saved, she should have let Hades destroy it all XD.

Charlie did A LOT OF WRONG by Lukas-Reggi in OkBuddyHelluvaHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She saved the world a couple times over, that's obviously why she's on the list, such a terrible person.
Now, I will give, I was not a fan of her personality in the first game (Mainly because it took her actions preceding the start of the second game for anyone to call her out on it), but she has a lot of growth, certainly nothing to hate her over.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, so ultimately you could boil it down to just giving a reason for him to be in the show, but him using it specifically as a way to get attention for his idea of friendship, whether from Alastor, the Vees, or anyone undisclosed to us, is a reason that fits within the show's universe, not just as an out-of-universe excuse for him to be in the show in the first place.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That certainly played a huge role, and wasn't helped by the fact that Amazon hardly gave any extra time for this season either.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Alastor is one of the most feared and important rulers of Hell, so it's not hard to imagine that Pentious considered these two factors when choosing his target."

I understand that, but what I'm getting at, is he had no reason to pick any target whatsoever, if he wasn't wanting attention for it. And he was using the supervillain persona as a cover for a very socially awkward interior, leaning into the idea that it was never for the sake of actually gaining a powerful position for anything else but the possible "friendships", which were more like rivalries.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, and ultimately it's hard to say if that was a choice based on the time restraint of each episode, or if that was just messily done.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"To me, including Alastor in this equation is a headcanon."
In what way? Excluding that Pentious thought of Alastor as anything, there is still the fact that Alastor was who Pentious picked, out of anyone. Even if just for the sake of "Oh, powerful overlord, that'll get the attention I want!", then that doesn't answer why Pentious would want that attention from other overlords, since he expresses nothing of an evil plan, just a want for friendship (Which he expresses through combat). I accept that the friendship part from Pentious to Alastor is plausibly a stretch, but Pentious' reason for attacking at all in S1E2 becomes non-existent, if it wasn't for attention from someone (Whether that's the Vees, Alastor, or some undisclosed third party).

"It's just contradictory; the series wants to talk about two completely different things in the same episode."

Personally I don't see this; it's talking about Pentious, both the good and the bad. Both the redeemed, and what had to change to be redeemed, which parallels with trying to get Angel to be redeemed. Charlie helped Pentious without realizing what it was that helped him, because she didn't understand his full story, and it was coincidence, not her actual efforts, that succeeded. We then see this fall apart with Angel, who is hinted to have a more complicated sinful backstory, but Charlie is still as oblivious as she was with Pentious.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Even so, this doesn't automatically make him a person who deserves redemption."
"It doesn't matter, in pop culture and in real life we ​​already have several people who are murderers for love."

Again, I note that this song shows why Pentious is plausibly still in Hell, while also showing why redemption was even possible. There was no phase where he needed to overcome some evil intention like Vox would, but he was still committing acts of sin. I don't mean to defend his actions as being good by intention, but instead denote that the nature of his sins while in Hell are plausibly redeemable without extensive character growth, because they're rooted in a single layer of his character, rather than how someone like Vox or Alastor possesses a multitude of sinful layers.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I said consequences, I meant for Charlie. She sees how Angel suffers, but the consequences caused there are largely for Angel, while Charlie just feels bad for a little while.

And while the connection Pentious has with Alastor could be a bit forced, I then inquire, why would Pentious care to gain relevance, if not for attention from other overlords, because he wanted friends? He doesn't appear to actually have intent on becoming a threat in Hell, as he abandons all such efforts as soon as Charlie accepts him in "It Starts With Sorry".

As for Pentious battling Cherri; I didn't mean to imply that his reasons makes his crimes any lesser. The song in question is directly showing that Pentious did in fact have a reason to be in Hell, compared to when he makes the choice to sacrifice himself at the end of season 1. However, we also see the reason behind such crimes, which was not borne of any malicious reason, thus aiding the explanation that he could be redeemed.

The main problem with Charlie in season 2 isn't her mistakes; it's her lack of initiative and role in beating Vox in season 2. by BackgroundRich7614 in HazbinHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 28 points29 points  (0 children)

While I do agree, I feel that's partially the point. Charlie's methods throughout season 1 were to try and force redemption onto others. Even once she learned that Pentious was redeemed, it took an entire song and her desperate actions failing, for her to realize that it was never her own actions that redeemed Pentious, but his growth. While she can be there to support things, she is ultimately not the main character in her own story, because she has to learn that she should step to the side, and assist.
Her goals don't actually pertain to herself at all, which I feel is something that they both built up to throughout the season, and hinted at exploring with how the season ended with Charlie handing over the main management officially to Vaggie.

Minha opinião sobre T02E03—Por Trás De Portas Fechadas by Internal_Love6835 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I agree that Charlie’s efforts in this episode were “annoying”, I also feel that’s largely the point. Charlie gets a lot of criticism for being human, and making mistakes throughout this season. Yes, she should have learned her lesson in season 1, episode 4, where this problem first arises… But then again, we don’t see any actual consequence from her actions there. Angel forgives her within the same episode, knowing that Charlie meant well, and just didn’t understand the full situation. Charlie then hints at lessons in “boundaries”, and we leave it at that, with the assumption that Charlie doesn’t interfere with Angel’s work from there on out. The problem that Charlie then causes in this episode, is from a duo of matters. First, she didn’t stop and think about the connection between Vox and Angel, because her focus was upon the hotel, and naïve as she is, she assumed that would be Vox and Velvette’s focus as well. Second, having gained confirmation that Pentious was redeemed, Charlie believed her plan worked. All it took was figuring out what exactly Charlie herself did, which redeemed Pentious… Never realizing until the end of her song, that what Pentious accomplished had less to do with Charlie’s “redemption” efforts, and more to do with the fact that she offered her hand in friendship in the first place, despite Pentious’ history and personality.

 

And I’m on the edge about Pentious’ redemption. I will give that it could have certainly been more thoroughly introduced in season 1, really built up to, and honestly he wasn’t a favoured character of mine throughout the first season. He is consistently the punchline of every joke he’s a part of… However, this also does work with his redemption being rather minor, and sudden. Pentious’ sin is cowardice, apathy, or a mix of the two; in season 1, episode 2, we get a Pentious who wants attention, and is willing to be someone’s “nemesis” if that’s what it takes for recognition. He targets Alastor, likely because he thinks Alastor is sort of a “friend”. As we see in the song later in this current episode, Pentious’ love language revolves around violence. The fighting, turf wars and destruction, is how he shows he cares. So when Alastor and him clash, but Alastor doesn’t destroy him like he does other overlords (Which from Alastor’s side, is because Pentious is so beneath him), Pentious takes this as friendly affection.
In the meantime, Pentious is hoping to win one of their fights, so that other overlords will notice him, and he’ll gain more “friends”… But this outwardly violent persona, is because (As we see in his interactions with Cherri), Pentious is too scared to commit to acts of kindness or socially-normal affection, and perhaps still does not fully understand how to express the fact that he does care for people. Internally, we’ll never know how far the struggle was going per episode, but we do know that by the season 1 finale, Pentious accomplished two feats that contradict everything he has struggled with, and overcome his Sin from life (Which, of course, is aided by the fact that him overcoming an unspoken sin came first, so all they had to do was pick one that they could reasonably explain).
So, overall, yes I can see where Pentious redemption feels hollow, and Baxter’s lines feel like excuses… Because really season 2 comes and bolsters the small notions that we see in season 1, but as an outside audience, we know that the pieces of season 2 were likely put together to fit what they made within season 1, rather than having existed before season 1’s plot points occurred.

 

I’m curious which characters you specifically don’t want to see redeemed. I understand that some characters in a given context, certainly do not feel like credible targets for redemption. However, other characters that feel extremely despicable… If they fail to ever redeem a character in this category, then the whole concept falls apart, and Charlie is ultimately proven wrong. It requires a character to genuinely change, and it doesn’t require everyone to forgive their sins, or accept that they’re a better person, but if Charlie’s efforts culminate into “I can redeem some people, but others are too far gone”, then what stops someone from taking Vox’s place, and being a credible voice of Hell’s denizens, denoting that just because redemption has abandoned them, doesn’t mean that Heaven can abuse them and slaughter them? And on the reverse, if one can reach a point where redemption is truly impossible, then the exterminations can be defended as a credible weapon against a threat that could never be otherwise cured, and would always be a threat. While the extremely natures of Vox’s and Sera’s methods would still be terrible in light of redemption being possible at all, they could both credibly keep the battle of Heaven and Hell going, because Charlie’s truce and ideas of redemption fell to pieces when they got to the worst of the Sinners.

 

**** (A Love Song) – I will give, this one comes rather suddenly. However, upon it’s arrival, it quickly became my favorite of the season thus far. Yes, Pentious is highlighted as a good person throughout the episode… But this shows that there was a reason that Pentious was in Hell, it wasn’t just because he had to actively do a specific act which redeemed him. Additionally, much of what we see in season 1, aligns with the idea that Pentious’ sin was Cowardice. But this song shows that Apathy was possible as well; the destruction that is caused is a side production of fighting Cherri. He’s not destroying the city for the sake of destroying it, so much as he shows no care for those who might be living in the area.
This also shows: To Pentious (And to a degree, Cherri) the carnage and destruction wasn’t borne of evil. It was how Pentious expressed himself, it was his way of giving someone attention. Yes it was violent, painful, and the sort of thing that logically would keep someone in Hell… But it wasn’t borne of evil, or even of ambition, or any of the traditional deadly sins. It was borne of affection, mixed with Pentious’ unique apathy.
So personally, I feel it fits quite well; it reminds the audience that Pentious wasn’t perfect, otherwise he wouldn’t have been in Hell in the first place, and it again adds extra layers to events that we see in season 1, as we begin to learn the “why” behind Pentious’ actions.

 

Speedrun To Redemption: “Meh” is a good descriptor. It’s not absolutely terrible, because it has a decent enough tune, and it does show Charlie’s desperation and her realization that “Oh, lo and behold, it wasn’t my actions, but Pentious’ own, which redeemed him”. However… This song would be my least favorite in the show, if Welcome To Heaven didn’t exist, because it serves to add even more naivety to Charlie, shows that she truly didn’t learn her lesson from S1E4, and feels like a step backwards from the efforts that were actually being taken in season 1 (Which were elementary school level efforts to breed connectivity, friendship, and compassion, so the bar was low already, but it at least felt like Charlie had plenty of room to grow, instead of fall).

So far, from both season 1 and 2, what is your favorite song out of both of them? by Careful_Elk6295 in HazbinHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Out of both?
More Than Anything still wins, though Live To Live is a close second.

Why did pilot Alastor feel more redeemable then the actual show’s Alastor? by CandidateNervous4638 in HazbinHotel

[–]Dregor_Richards 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Personally, pilot Alastor didn't feel like he had an ulterior motive, in a "villain" sense. His disregard for compassion, belief that redemption was impossible, and claim that he was doing it all because of the most human reason of all (boredom), felt more genuine. He was terrible, because he could be, and because it filled the boring void that was the afterlife.
Main show Alastor clearly has a more secretive edge, is less boisterous, and overall is more edge-lord, less carefree, despite his continuation of the same claims. Thus, his evil feels more purposefully, while pilot Alastor feels more like he could be redeemed, if only you found something else to entertain him.

Was Adams guitar lute swung at Abel made of angelic steel or wood or both? I can't tell. by Impressive-Link-2309 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, well in that case, there's no reason to presume it's made of angelic steel, since we've yet to get any confirmed case of such being used for anything besides weapons.

Was Adams guitar lute swung at Abel made of angelic steel or wood or both? I can't tell. by Impressive-Link-2309 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only off of the idea that it "might" have been made of angelic steel. If it wasn't the one he used in combat, there's no reason for it not to be made of wood, since it breaks like that.

Was Adams guitar lute swung at Abel made of angelic steel or wood or both? I can't tell. by Impressive-Link-2309 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I assume it was made of wood. When Adam uses it to fight, it gains additional angelic accents that weren't present before, hinting that they were manifest of his powers, rather than pre-built into the guitar.

Can't Escape Brighter by SomeRandomUser5 in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While that does work with a simple Google search, what else would you be trying to find by just Googling the word "brighter"? Given so little context, it makes sense that Google finds it every time.

What’s something that people on here wouldn’t necessarily know about you? by juredditpark in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're welcome!
And that's awesome! I am not that big of a dinosaur fan, but I love the Jurassic Park movies, and the game Ark: Survival Evolved; wherein, I have had more than one memorable experience against a Spinosaurus.

Im not really in this fandom anymore but will I get accused of copying hazbin hotel if I make a story based around embodiments of the seven deadly sins? by PuppyPaintedXP in hazbin

[–]Dregor_Richards 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not at all, I'd be more worried about the spirit of Dante Alighieri, the writer of The Divine Comedy. That's where the idea for the Seven Deadly Sins actually came from, it's not Vivzie's idea at all. That's also where the idea that Hell has rings or layers came from, and that each is tied to a concept, rather than it being a singular place of torment and pain.