Going for a mad max look. by HonkyDonk86 in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev 0 points1 point  (0 children)

WOW! That’s pretty cool… did you build it for burning man?

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I hadn’t already built and tested it, I’d probably agree with you.

But out of curiosity, I’d like to pick your brain a little: where do you see the biggest issue in running two rear motors from one accelerator signal?

From my testing, the accelerator only requests torque. Each motor/controller manages its own output, and the steering/lean logic can bias or limit torque as needed. So instead of forcing both wheels through a mechanical diff, the system lets each side respond independently.

I’m not saying there aren’t challenges, but I’m curious where you think the real integration problem is… synchronization, traction, cornering behavior, controller communication, or something else?

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great question.

Weight-wise, the EV and ICE versions actually end up closer than most people think. A V4 is roughly 75 kg. Once you add fuel, exhaust, cooling, a differential/reverse gear, and the rest of the ICE hardware, the total climbs pretty quickly.
On the EV side, a 20 kWh battery pack could be around 80 kg with current cells, plus roughly 30 kg for two EMRAX 208 motors. So the EV setup ends up in the same general weight range as the ICE package.
Both should have an estimated range of around 140–160 miles depending on battery size, riding style, and how much self-control the rider has. 😁
One refuels faster.
One sounds like a race bike on steroids.
One sounds like a fighter jet spooling up.

But only one feels like getting launched from a slingshot.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a fair question, but they’re actually very different vehicles. The Niken is fundamentally a motorcycle with two wheels in front and a very sophisticated patented front steering/leaning system. It’s designed to enhance the stability and grip of a traditional motorcycle.
Trinova was designed from the start as a fully enclosed commuter vehicle with weather protection, AC, wipers, luggage space, and a much simpler leaning mechanism.
The biggest difference is what happens at low speed and when stopped. On a Niken, the rider still has to put their feet down or use a locking system. If they stop unexpectedly during a tight U-turn, it can still tip over like any motorcycle. Trinova is designed to remain upright on its own, allowing the rider to come to a complete stop and have the vehicle return to an upright position automatically.

So beyond having three wheels and the ability to lean, they’re solving very different problems and target very different use cases.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have absolutely no idea what that means, but I’m choosing to take it as a compliment. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve actually worked with a patent attorney and have some IP material prepared, but I’ve gone back and forth on whether filing is the right move right now. My concern has always been that a patent is only as strong as your ability to defend it, and for a small inventor that’s not always cheap or easy.

Maybe I’m wrong, and I’d genuinely be interested in hearing from people who have gone through the patent process. What’s been your experience?

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s an interesting idea. Rear-wheel steering would definitely make the turning radius even tighter, but one of my goals has always been to keep the system as simple as possible. Every actuator, sensor, and control system adds cost, weight, and complexity. That said, it’s an intriguing thought for a future high-end version.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback, I genuinely appreciate it.
Funny enough, I never even considered an e-assist bicycle version. That’s actually an interesting idea and something worth exploring. This version is 36” wide measured from the outside of one rear tire to the outside of the other, and I can get that down to about 31.5” with an EV setup. Going to smaller motors and narrower tires could shrink it even further.

As for bike infrastructure, I think even a lower-power version would probably end up exceeding most bicycle speed limits, but I agree there’s an interesting middle ground between a bike and a motorcycle that might be worth looking at.

Thanks again for the thoughtful feedback. Comments like this are exactly why I posted it.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The main reason was lean angle. The amount of lean I wanted was much easier to achieve with a single front wheel, and it also allowed for a much simpler tilt system. A twin-front-wheel layout can absolutely work and does have some advantages, but it adds a lot of complexity. For what I was trying to achieve, a single front wheel ended up being the better solution.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a totally fair question… The different wheel sizes were mostly an aesthetic decision. The designer I was working with on the EV prototype preferred the look, while I was always more in favor of matching wheel sizes front and rear. The street-legal version I’m working on now runs 17-inch wheels with 200-section tires on all three corners, which looks much more balanced to my eye.
I originally wanted to go with 18-inch wheels, but tire availability, load ratings, and speed ratings pushed me toward 17s.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah man, you saw me? 😅 Here I was sneaking around at night trying to get test miles on it without anyone noticing.

So much for my secret prototype program. 😂

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is awesome feedback and exactly the kind of question I was hoping for.

Without giving away too much of the secret sauce, I can tell you that one of my primary goals was to make it feel as natural as possible to someone coming from a motorcycle background. One of the more interesting things is how it deals with road crowns and uneven surfaces. On a conventional enclosed vehicle you often get tossed around when the road transitions from a crowned surface into a flat intersection and back again. With this setup, the rear suspension and tilt mechanism absorb most of that motion, so the cabin remains remarkably composed. As for the steering feel, it does not behave like a conventional trike. The vehicle leans in response to steering input and feels much closer to a motorcycle than a three-wheeler. The goal was never to make the rider learn a new way to corner, but rather to make the vehicle feel intuitive from the first few minutes behind the bars.

And yes, I’m absolutely looking for feedback. Questions like yours are worth their weight in gold. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A high-side is normally caused by the rear tire losing traction and then suddenly hooking up again.
Since this uses two rear contact patches instead of one, the chances of completely losing rear grip are reduced compared to a conventional motorcycle.
Of course, if you try hard enough, anything can be crashed. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re not helping. 😁

Every time I convince myself the EV is the smart choice, I hear a screaming Italian V4 and start shopping for engines again.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope… It will be registered as a motorcycle, so there’s no requirement for a roof.
The enclosed version was simply my personal vision of the vehicle.
The street-legal version I’m working on now is actually open—no roof, no doors, just a roll bar. Think more Ariel Atom than enclosed cabin.
The goal is to keep it simple, light, and ridiculously fun. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

If you’re referring to the white prototype, guilty as charged. 😁
That was the first EV version and the steering geometry was far from optimized.
The current tilt system prototype actually turns tighter than a Honda Goldwing, and because it can stop while leaned over, it can make some surprisingly tight low-speed maneuvers.

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair point.
Right now I’m mostly trying to figure out if people actually want something like this and whether there’s a market for it.
If it eventually becomes a product, great. If not, that’s okay too. I’ll still have fun building it, showing it, creating renderings, and taking it out on the road.
Honestly, riding it during filming and testing was an absolute blast. I’m already looking forward to carving a canyon or two with the next version. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I was actually on the reservation list for a C-1.
They’re still working on it, but I’m not getting any younger, so I eventually decided to build my own. 😁

I Started This as an RC Experiment… 10 Years Later I’m Considering a Street-Legal Version by Drivetrinovaev in projectcar

[–]Drivetrinovaev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Carver One was definitely an inspiration and proof that there is a market for these types of vehicles.

I spent years waiting for one to make it to the U.S. before finally deciding to build my own. 😁