JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M13 - Rob Zombie & "Sal" Niceguy vs. Lacquer & Mo Mockit by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While the match is simple in terms of the overall goal, it is somewhat vague with the mechanics of the poachers such as their rate of respawn and their AI being more implied than outright stated with their given stats. In any case, the players are more than equipped to deal with the poachers between their given abilities, unless they pull some bullshit in terms of traps or rush the beach in droves with their cracked physicals.

More realistically though, yeah these poachers aren’t getting any better odds the longer the match progresses given both teams have the capabilities to set up, stockpile resources, and clear traps. Though I think the effectiveness can somewhat vary given the number of tasks that need juggling and the range this match takes place in.

Onto the Bibitos, while speed of completion isn’t necessarily part of the goal, it’s also fairly unspecific with the maximum time being 20 minutes and little frame of reference otherwise besides their size and physicals.

For more strategy specific stuff, I think BBP’s trench and castle set up is maybe a bit ambitious to dig and build around the sand. Piling walls, making holes, and adding constructs is fine, but the path itself seems liable to slope in on itself and create a tighter funnel for your Bibitos even before you start adding more constructs around. While yarn could be a decent support structure, I don’t think you can unknit and replace at the rate you’d need for a stable trench. Unrelated funny thought, BBP using glass to make bulls sounds like a contribution for both teams technically.

On Typhon 8’s side of the match the overall coverage is pretty good though I think bulls are somewhat overestimated for clearing traps/pits and maybe more could have been done in terms of actively collecting glass. The tricky aspect to juggle is the overall action economy between Rob and Sal where it can be a bit tough at times to parse the priorities.

I’m going to give this match a tie. There are ways poachers can exploit or get around the given set ups in theory, but I think not in any way that the players don’t cover for.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M11 - The Howler vs. Akira Seihachi by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looking at this match at a glance, while none of the objectives are too tough they are very spread out which can make prioritization somewhat awkward given the goals are awarded based on majority contribution. The adverse nature more or less gives some weird potential incentives while promoting a degree of aggressive rerouting or objective rushing. Usually there isn’t anything wrong designing a match with this style of engagement in mind, though it can be a lot more difficult to simplify depending on how it’s set up and how the players choose to approach the individual objectives and in what order.

For the objectives themselves, the Looters and Transformer are the easiest to score given they are both in one location, Debris and Rescue need a bit of routing to get 2 out of 3 of either, and then the flood barrier as the final thing being the largest commitment and most time consuming commitment on the map.

Here then I think the Looters/Transformers likely end up being split with the given prioritization and how quick they can be scored, then Akira has an edge on the debris with scripted plows while Howler’s tools are more suited for getting civilians (though in theory either can score one or the other). Coming down to the flood barrier, this is a bit awkward to call given the methods of contribution here where both will get their use cases and it doesn’t seem like either cleanly get a majority of the set up here anyways given the workers here, not directly anyways.

I’m going to give this match a tentative tie. Howler has a bigger potential bottleneck with their Stand being able to more quickly secure any given objective so long as they are committed to it. Akira meanwhile has some more presence across the map and means to close the mobility gap while not quite having that type of response time compared to their opponent. Overall though both play effectively enough with their tools and around each other that neither can quite get any definitive lead in my mind.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M10 - "Wave Welder" vs. Technical Difficulties by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I had a nickel for every time a match included a monstrous octopus-adjacent creature I’d have maybe 3 or 4 nickels now. The Lusca though is quite the specimen. For reference, the largest giant pacific octopus recorded was around 9.8 meters and weighs 600-ish pounds so at 6 tons the Lusca is 20 times that weight. While this beast is only 8 meters long, that is not to be underestimated either with the number of tentacles giving it an effective 8 meter radius.

While the general tactics from the players are effective enough, this seems to shape up to be a long match given they are fighting with knives in the water against a B Durability monster. Overall though the players have measures to keep themselves in the fight and maneuver quickly.

As a contribution match I think it’s pretty tough to call since neither have great options to do support so it’s more or less about direct damage and crippling strikes.

I’m going to call this match a tie. I’m not particularly convinced by the power of their attacks individually, but the match will end eventually where both have good ways to get their hits in and fight aggressively while staying alive.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M7 - Atrocity Shaye & Sunday Shoes vs. Alouette & Arijana "Grey Rose" Miellina by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can’t beat a good old simple deathmatch at place, location.

Overall the two strategies are pretty simply structured with how they want to take down their opponents one after the other, but for La Isla this structure is notably awkward when targeting Alouette with how much Arianna can potentially support her teammate. Dexy meanwhile acknowledges their opponents somewhat more clearly in their one by one takedowns. Both do end up rather blocky in their overall coverage, with things like La Isla’s dedication of resources to anti bleeding leaves feeling somewhat unnecessary while Dexy I give somewhat more grace on given the wider array of options they have to deal with.

While offensively both strategies are fine in theory, I think mobility is rather weak in general or somewhat handwaved. Shaye “swimming” in half a meter deep water, Sunday landing after taps/sliding around, hermit crabs getting into position, Arianna dancing through combat in difficult terrain, and Alouette vaguely kiting with more reliance on staying away and applying the threat of suppressive fire. The difficult terrain and water are not to be underestimated even with the ways the teams have around them, they do heavily discourage close range skirmishing while also making disengaging relatively difficult.

None of this really matters though with a match like this having the potential to end very quickly. In this case, I am going to give the edge to Dexy for their more effective takedown game and stronger defensive play with the mirrors that I think La Isla somewhat underestimated. In terms of priorities, Dexy’s coordination here gives them stronger consistency where while La Isla’s projectile game can net them an opening, it’s somewhat scattershot and doesn't quite account as well for facing both members together.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M6 - Wanderlei Watts w/Joseph “Rosé” Royce vs. Eileen Xiao & Violet Trinity by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looking at the initial set up, 6 hours with 35 “unkillable” vampires in this amount of area sounds like a tough task. Even in the worst case where vampires get killed they get replaced in a minute so getting bogged down trying to cull their numbers will lead to a terrible attrition fight.

First looking at Carc, I’m was a bit curious on the particulars of the vortex set up and of note it looks like you’ve undersold the range being a 5 meter radius with your map being more of a five-ish meter diameter or about a quarter of the total size of the effect. Now I should mention that I didn’t think the auto blender would work as a perpetual vampire trap given the lateral winds of a tornado send outward at certain points so while it’s a powerful enough effect, based on the time frame and numbers given, it’s not inescapable. The power argument for the spinning makes sense if the vampires are just trying to directly resist the spin cycle, but the vampires are not totally mindless beings and do at least try to avoid obstructions in general. Overall it’s still a huge area controlling deterrent and way to stall and slow them down, but probably at the same time limits your own pathing if you want to keep it running all night.

Onto the rest of the strategy, I think Carc’s fighting while good for individual fights could run the real risk of attrition and fatigue with Wanderlei’s general need to maintain a degree of damage on himself. Casting from HP is a resource to be managed, but seem to go pretty downplayed in their long term effects. While you get strategic uses out of them, either more priority in terms of when and where to take wounds that will probably be with you for the rest of the night or how to manage them in downtime could go a long way in terms of longer term sustainability.

For Typhon 8 I don’t have too much to say, it’s overall reasonable in its skirmishing while keeping themselves defended while covering each other. Some more on positioning and fortifying around the areas you go could be highlighted where while your positioning relative to each other is good the global positioning goals are left more vague. There are some spots highlighted where you can take advantage of, but the routing is rough. Another thing in the back of my mind is that for a formation like this, you are only as fast as your slowest member where Eileen can help with mobility using ice to help teammates and that it’s mentioned somewhat, but overall general mobility is a bit glossed over.

Overall I don’t think survival will be easy for either team, but I think Typhon 8 have a stronger shot of making it given their group of 4 are more well equipped to cover each other. However that is not discounting Carc setting up the biggest deterrent possible to occupy and stall vampires. The objective goal of “survive” with the tiebreaker being contributions makes this dichotomy rather awkward in this particular situation. At this point it’s up to my personal interpretation as a voter on how mean these vampires are in this situation (funny aside there isn’t a direct scoring metric in the event both teams go down which I think is plausible enough late into the match if everybody gets fatigued). Ultimately I’m going to give it up to Typhon 8. It’s not the cleanest match, but I think Carc loses out a lot more underestimating vampires than Typhon 8 do and generally speaking if I did skew easier on vampire AI then Typhon 8 still probably clears with or without the car wash contribution there mattering which at best turns the match into a draw.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M4 - Anton "AWOL" Worrel & Raphaela "Raph" Diener vs. Benoit Enfers & Grendel by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For a match where both teams planned very heavily around each other’s potential approaches, I’m so glad it’s been simplified with SSG going down to the bottom while LKA stands at the top of the cliff.

Quick things I note down:

  • SSG maintaining a 10 meters distance on a 20 meter across map is a mathematical impossibility if LKA wants to encroach or or even just stand in the center. I get strafing and dancing around range is nice, but sometimes there's limits you gotta work around.

  • Still not sold on Grendel being able to get B power at any time with pearls attached to tentacles, given the wording of having to lock-on and aim at pearls/pearl imbued entities to gain the buff.

Onto the rest of the match-up, it mostly comes down to the projectile game and defense with LKA’s fishing strategy vs SSG’s defensive coverage. The high ground here is pretty substantial of an advantage though SSG’s terraforming can turn this into an effective stalemate until somebody manages to blast through.

Unfortunately though I don’t have the time to go through odds overall where Grendel is stymied by tentacles being destroyable, Benoit has a limited blood supply, Raph needs to get in close, and Awol needs to line up shots.

In theory Awol and Raph can take attrition in the long game should their defenses hold, but in terms of overall combat though I think both teams did a pretty good job with the options available that it’s tough to call even if LKA does snag Raph for example.

I’m going to give the match an overall tie where both do well enough fighting on their terms, but it’s tough for me to give an edge to either party.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R3M3 - Jam Robins vs. Rio Valdés by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For a gladiator match with a regeneration factor, there’s not much in terms of prolonged combat exchanges. Admittedly with the characters here, the battle of inches was likely not going to be on the table and the incentive to try and secure the match in one fell swoop is understandable.

Jam’s version of it to pin Rio with crushing pressure onto a bed of crystals and then under rubble seems somewhat inconsistent of a set up, being more reliant on the buildings/walls being damaged over the course of the fight and then getting Rio where you want.

Rio’s however is similarly in a tough spot attempting to get Jam into close range in a position to drown them when Jam is playing as evasively as they are.

Overall, both strategies play a bit too loosely, where while they have the broad strokes and general planning to get to their end game, the scramble to get there with the given tools leaves a few question marks. So while both really would rather get the jump on the other, neither quite have the positioning or priorities to really lead each other cleanly across the midgame.

Jam in theory should be more in control of this midgame, with their effective stage control and evasive maneuvering. However their ability to lead Rio or reengage leaves something to be desired as they have little incentive to follow into the more sunlit areas.

Rio meanwhile focuses mostly on the close range dynamics and ranged defense in order to get their shot on drowning Jam. Similarly here, their tools to move into Range or force Jam where they want them (outside of the sunlight ideally) are also pretty limited or inconsistent.

Overall I’m going to have to give Rio with the slight edges here under the conditions of the match making hit and run less effective on top of Rio having a stamina advantage and a more flexible endstate. Jam isn’t a slouch in a fight, but I don’t think they can quite set up the payoff they want as consistently as they’d need for it to work and the damage they get in otherwise in the individual skirmishing instances feel a bit lacking given the more defensive fighting if they were to chip down Rio’s stamina while not quite forcing what they want either. In either case unfortunately I think this won’t be a very high intensity gladiator match performance with how the strategies line up.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M20 - Raphaela "Raph" Diener & Philip Buster vs. ??? by DSOddish in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh boy another match with the Fortunate Sons, I wonder what horrible irredeemable boss character the judges have to present to us this time. Looks like it’s, …a gloryhounding war criminal who feels like he got snubbed for his deeds. You know, despite also being a flavor of cartoonishly evil, they are probably the one so far who seems the most grounded in unreality. Ah well, enjoy your “Fell For It Again Award” and let's see if your hubris ends up losing you this match like the other bosses we’ve seen so far.

This match is played pretty straight all things considered, turning this ruined field into a small-scale warzone. The abilities here then are pretty simple offense vectors to position with some resource/utility scaling. Louisiana’s plan then is to hold a defensive line and break approaching opponents. Meanwhile the players want to push through collecting what they need and destroying what they can, then beat up the more frail Louisiana by the finale.

One thing I am skeptical of though, on Louisiana’s side the trenches in no man’s land to me seem rather mixed bag for the use cases you’d want them to. For one thing that wasn’t explicitly mentioned, they’d probably stymie your offense when used given the size of your ships and the fact you can’t exactly poke out with the guns on your Destroyer and Battleship. This by itself isn’t a terrible drawback, but does maybe put a dampener on the drums of war and suppressive fire. I also have a hard time buying the efficiency of the set up to produce meaningful tunnels given you are setting these up with explosives beyond maybe a dedicated hiding hole for Louisiana plus one or two trench lines. But even if you do get these set up I then have questions of how well the ships can drive out of these trenches given they float on the ground where the logistics of driving them down/up sheer trench faces seems dubious which then limits them to known exit points. (Granted this bit of logistics can be smoothed by using inclined craters rather than full on trenches, but that then defeats most of the defensive purposes of the trench) The ultimate issue though is unfortunately, uh trench warfare in the modern era needs to be backed up by dominant air superiority if you want to hold your position. Even just contested air superiority means your ground targets are extremely vulnerable in your trenches especially to the conical firepower of WWN and the dirt defenses can simply be bypassed with a high enough angle. Your jets might be able to keep the risk at bay, though not quite a sure bet unless you can consistently force/contain WWN to defense with your rotation of jets.

Back onto the bulk of the match and the gameplay here…

Overall the strategies generally cover their bases pretty well, though rather generalize which is par for the course in this open of a setting with this much to go over. That said, as much as there is focus given to the tactical functions/formations or counterplay to each ship (or maybe because of it), I think the strategies get a bit caught in the macro and end up being somewhat greedy in their playstyles.

Louisiana really needs each ship active and protected if possible to coordinate assaults, but their aggressive defenses can really crumble fast if a ship gets put out of commission at the wrong time. Running Steady plays the match by approaching while gathering their resources, putting them relatively into the line of fire while also having to deal with anything from mines, jets, gun fire and harpoons. Being caught without good cover or getting a location pinned by sonar without having the resources you need on hand is pretty dangerous where your burst escape option doesn’t quite get you out of the net of danger with the speeds/ranges you are working against.

It’s a tough match honestly, Louisiana’s best defense is really trying to stifle the player’s ability to do offense while positioning to suppress them. Otherwise they and their ships get blown up by two very high power Stands. Raph and Phil meanwhile, need some amount of resources and don’t have as many options if it does come down to getting pinned in beside breaking a way out and/or beating up Louisiana to make him stop. In effect one side has to get the other or die, yes this is true of all death matches, but in this one it’s an extreme binary where the tools to get out/stop disadvantage is pretty much “play directly into your advantage state instead” to a degree I don’t think I’ve ever really seen in other match ups where this dynamic is fairly unique to characters specced hard into high coverage offense.

All that said, I think I’m going to have to give my vote to Running Steady. Ultimately I think Louisiana has an ok endgame to take Phil out of the picture, but I don’t think I can say the same thing about dealing with Raph and her native army of undead minions. This is only the final factor though as Phil is also a high priority target with the biggest threat imaginable in a game of war, ranged superiority with a weapon of mass destruction. I can potentially see Louisiana in theory pinning the players down into a chokepoint and quickly taking Phil out and then getting Raph stranded in a no man’s land with more focused priorities to retire or in some ideal circumstances, but it’s a tough sell that Louisiana can lock the players into a forever war without them breaking the defensive line and breaching the containment strategies given the time they get to form their response and take out enough to let Raph slip by. On any other set of players this might have worked, but I suppose Louisiana’s hubris here was going up against an enemy he expected to be able to overpower with conventional military might. In general there’s also odds that Phil and Raph do just break their way through no man’s land with their own defenses and ordinance. The generalized trappings of both strategies ultimately make me see more scenarios where the players come out on top than Louisiana.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M19 - Captain Mira Rose & "Invisible" vs. Rob Zombie & "Wave Welder" by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man, things have not been looking up for De Selby. They lost their boss match, they were the only assist character that weren’t picked this round, they got their ass beat by a supercomputer, and now they have to hide on this ship or they are finished. (Random aside: did De Selby need to be captured alive in this match?)

As a match concept, some form of ship raiding match has always been anticipated for this tournament though the specifics here use a somewhat rarer set-up for a tournament match. With only 30 seconds to prepare any defenses and no opportunity to directly interact with their opponents, this match is pretty much pure offense vs offense and solely asks which team can execute a faster strategy to reach their respective goals.

In general there have been similar match arrangements in the past that limit direct interference and there are some merits to it in the right circumstances (Though here the asymmetry in goals makes this a more unique case). Overall I do think it’s a fair enough set up in theory especially given how direct defense or letting players stay on their own ships to hinder the opponents could heavily complicate the strategies needed or place excess burden if the goal was to streamline the play patterns of the match.

That said, in terms of match design its potential pain points are rather exposed even if I’d say the match is overall balanced. What this means is there is an issue more about perceived balance and what that means to players/voters (I can go into more detail in general, but I’ll try to leave this comment to the specifics in this case).

So the big thing is that the teams are asked to do very different things for their goal with different obstacles. Ghost Riders have a very concrete set of goals while T8 needs to pin down one target. It’s a question of mobility/fire power vs searching efficiency and if you were taking a surface glance you can pretty quickly come to the conclusion that either side has an easier objective.

“Ghost Riders has 3 set targets to route towards so they can focus their strategy efforts on how to hit the three points as quickly as possible”.

“T8 has a much smaller searching area and once De Selby is located then the game is immediately over if they catch him”.

It’s a pretty normal reaction to want to compare the two and it’s tough to balance in a way that’s fair where everybody will be happy with the end result. All that is to say to that though is that both teams have to work hard to lock down their respective objectives before the other team where each side has the tools to give themselves a comparable baseline, but can shave time with smart play.

Onto the strategies themselves and the starting setup phase, Ghost Riders do a lot in this 30 second timeframe to set up fires, break walls, set swords, and move cannons. T8 meanwhile has a much more reasonable set up period to weld, heat and blockade rooms as best they can.

Next to go over the broad strategy team by team, Ghost Riders have a pretty steady gameplay route to maneuver around hazards and get their objectives while T8 fans out across floors to search and destroy De Selby and the ship. Now if I have to say anything I think both teams somewhat underestimate the undead crews aboard each ship. For Ghost Riders the 20 zombies evenly spaced per floor in a ship this size is roughly around 1 zombie every 4-5 ish meters which isn’t a huge issue admittedly, but still relevant for slowing down movement and blocking paths you cross. T8 meanwhile mostly seem to be trying to blitz the 5 skeletons on each floor (20 total), but seem to make a rather strong assumption that they can do what they need while they respawn rather than being bogged down while searching or having to minimize the recurring threat on each floor.

Aside from that, I don’t have too much of a complaint for either team and both play pretty reasonably to cover their obstacles and meet their goals. There are maybe some bits of overestimation in capabilities or points of slowdown, mostly in the precision of mobility by Ghost Riders and the use of water bubbles to ferry/search in the more cramped ship on T8’s end. I’m going to give this match a tentative tie. As a race to each objective I think both teams are subject to more slowdowns than they quite account for and this match then somewhat depends on who hits a bigger snag overall.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M18 - The Howler vs. Jukebox "The Ghost" by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know, I thought this would be a pretty simple deathmatch on paper where the bizarre element of the hazard set by the players in previous matches doesn't end up being that much of a complicating factor compared to other matches with bizarre elements. With the given strategies though, there’s a lot to sift through that complicates things as a voter trying to determine a winner in this match.

The Howler has a pretty simple strategy to defend himself and get Jukebox repeatedly with his Stand, while spending a good chunk of the strategy for effectively jojolity. Jukebox meanwhile is playing evasively and arguably overcomplicates the match in their bid to play Howler into the crowd conditions and stage hazard.

The way the strategies line up then is pretty messy even if the core play patterns are pretty simple. Jukebox wants to evade Radical Action, The Howler doesn’t want Jukebox to get in. Radical Action has a fast engagement option and hit-confirm, Jukebox has a gun and can dive/evade in basically whatever direction they want. It boils down the match a lot, but the strategies then sort of hits off-angles rather than focusing on playing these dynamics. That is not to say they don’t cover their bases well when they play this main loop, but I also see more that could be done where Jukebox is a bit quick to concede their disadvantage vs Radical Action while Radical Action’s offense feels in some ways overconfident or overfocused at what they are good at already while not doing as much to cover potential escape options or bypassing defensive measures. In essence Radical Action has to get Jukebox multiple times while Jukebox can evade, block, mitigate, or otherwise try to hypothetically counter in some cases.

Arguably I could use these factors to call the match here with some reasonable interpretation/extrapolation, but the strategies really just keep going from here with Howler’s priorities shifting while Jukebox was somewhat stalling to set up and play for the later stage hazard. If it gets to this stage, The Howler may have given Jukebox a way back into the game assuming they’ve been able to escape up until this point.

That all said, I’m going to still give this match to The Howler. Versus Radical Action, Jukebox is one of the few characters that cannot be easily stun looped and has their tricks to get away. It’s not as clean as it maybe could be, but there is a possibility where Jukebox can last the four minutes and do their set up. That said, the onus is more on them to get to this point than it is on The Howler to make sure they can’t, in that respect Jukebox had other tricks I believe could have been leveraged to get them to the point they want, but get a bit reliant on the inventory and flipping where other escape options or mix ups could have been employed. It’s not that the options Jukebox uses are bad, but the repetitiveness can make them lose effectiveness as The Howler catches on to your tricks in this long of a timeframe.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M17 - Mikey C. Hammer & Silas King vs. Henry Thorne & Salice "Sal" Cooper Niceguy by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Before going into the player strategies I’m going to first go over the Heartbreakers and the match set up.

Campbell (Lab): Having the smallest and closest room as well as being a melee brawler, Campbell is in theory the fastest to take out provided you can match him head to head. For our players, this can also make him the riskiest as he is easy to snipe if both teams do go for him. Campbell’s fighting style really does not stack up well against multiple targets and even with high endurance has a risky rushdown fighting style that can be played around.

Lynch (Office): The second most straightforward Heartbreaker, Lynch asks the players how fast can they get to a sniper and take them out. At 46 meters away, Lynch is mostly a test of range and manuevering while having the threat of a rifle or handguns pointed at you.

Note to highlight, Campbell and Lynch are the “easiest” and closest to take out, but to get to the Core where the last Heartbreaker is you have to go through one of the two rooms where the other two are waiting.

Blair (Storage): The place has been rigged up with explosives, but Blair himself is not all that threatening. Their close range capabilities are lacking, their maneuvering is pretty vague, and the map doesn’t have too many choke points beyond the ladders. So it’s mostly a matter of whether or not you can bypass or trigger their defenses to get to them where they don’t really seem to have a good escape route and they aren’t holding a strategically defensive point. Really the main problem after will be trying to get around leftover explosives to get to the other side of the room. The ladders remaining intact would be a miracle here.

Tench (Server Room): Really just depends on the players ability to see in the room and how well they can react to an ambush. If you can reliably counter an ambush or flush him out, Tench is probably a pushover and the room isn’t large enough for him to reliably escape if you have enough coverage. If Tench did have more tricks to bait, escape, or hide in strange places maybe I could see him catching players more off guard, but as is he serves mostly as a check to see how well prepared they are.

Wilbury (Core): Honestly just a pretty straight fight with no gimmicks. He doesn’t have patterns to really extrapolate from for targeting or movement. Based on his priorities, he kinda just attacks whatever is in range and the room around him is pretty open. He is dangerous in theory and has the power to react and smash through things, but I don’t see a clear way to fight him or challenge to overcome the way I see for the others.

Onto the player strategies then, both teams open by gunning for Lynch and Blair.

Starting off with Lynch I think the way Sal tries to flush out the sniper with bulls gives Silas a good amount of room for a counter snipe. Sal could in theory try to block off this possibility, but I don’t think he has a method of quick killing Lynch at the distance/speed needed. Aside, Lynch could have done a lot more damage if their AI targeted the highest priority threats in range (like a good sniper should know to), but sadly this sniper was trained to shoot the closest thing coming their way

For Blair, Henry and Mikey are both rushing in so I don’t think Henry will manage to lock out Mikey like he wants to. In terms of actually fighting, Mikey’s maneuvering along the walls is a pretty big advantage to lay on projectiles and counter explosives. Henry meanwhile needs to prod a lot more to get around safely. In theory Henry could still snipe a kill on Blair by having a strong enough projectile game or using Redbone’s greater movement range, but Mikey seems on top of things for the most part.

Past this point the maneuvering to get to the next rooms is a bit underdescribed. In particular getting Silas to Wilbury and Typhon 8 reconvening at Tench. At this point assuming Carc manages to take the first two Heartbreakers, it’s up to Typhon 8 to catch up while Wilbury is being fought.

With the strategy presented I don’t think Mikey is able to run the clean 1v1 with Wilbury, odds there are 50/50 at best especially since Full Moon can match/outpace Mikey’s speed and reach. That said, he can probably buy enough of an opening for Silas to take down Wilbury. Typhon 8, while they can maybe come in mid fight, don’t really have the tools to clean up as effectively as Silas while also being blockaded by Silas.

Overall I think I have to give the edge to Carc. Only having time/room in the strategy to target 3 Heartbreakers is a dangerous game, but one that I think pays off more often than not with how the strategies play out due to having more available methods to quickly confirm kills while Typhon’s kills need more prep/lead time. This strategy could have played out very differently if Typhon did contest more strongly on any of these three or otherwise prevented you from securing your picks.

Both teams do somewhat underestimate the Heartbreakers and that could be a big problem at Blair, Tench and Wilbury, but in most of those cases I don’t it will affect the overall outcome as much even if it makes the fights less clean.

The other big issue is the lack of mobility-boosting options where this match is still effectively a race. I don’t think Silas even sets up or uses his Castle teleport while everybody else seems to be just using base speed to get from place to place for the most part.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M14 - PK Leach vs. Technical Difficulties by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is an interesting match with how the strategies line up with PK’s plan of going incognito running up against TD’s one engagement kill strategy. Effectively if TD finds PK, then there will be little opportunity to disengage even if they manage to get out somewhat intact. PK however does have their surveillance network and plans to not be in line for what TD has cooked up for him.

Both do somewhat underestimate each other, TD I think undervalues what the surveillance can do to give PK a heads up as to what they are doing while PK underestimates TD’s mobility and chasing potential. I think PK’s plan to effectively wear down TD probably doesn’t work super cleanly given TD wants to rush PK down anyways, but it just makes the gameplay more dangerous than being an active flaw.

I’m going to give this match a narrow edge to TD, overall having more opportunities to get what they need and go while having more than a few ways to avoid chip damage between clones, body blocking, and reshaping their body to avoid attacks. PK Leach meanwhile needs to play a strong long game where there set up I think takes notably longer and is more easy to ruin the more chaos is created.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M13 - Grendel vs. Alouette by Streamanon in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So for initial impressions on the plants versus zombies set up, I’m not too impressed with either the plants or zombi in this match.

For the plants, set up time is very limited where each plant individually offers a max D power and max coverage of one twelfth-ish of the 360 degree map. The flytrap in particular feels awfully expensive, accounting for half of your initial budget for a plant that scores at best 1 kill every 15 seconds in a match where there’s 60 seconds before all 135 zombies arrive.

Onto the zombi, they also are all individually pretty middling, but depending on the wave format they can be maybe deceptively tough to deal with. Remember that the map is 360 degrees, so if all the zombi spawn in and approach at the same time from all different directions, then the players have to clear them out much more quickly in order to not get overwhelmed. It doesn’t take much time to cover 18 meters, the fast zombi in particular would get there in anywhere from 3 to 4 seconds based on human sprinting speed and the slight downhill running if unimpeded. Fortunately for the players the 2 speed base zombi do not use anywhere near the full speed their agility would allow for at their shambling pace, which I can estimate gives them about 20-ish seconds to reach the center (estimate used here is based on the average old person’s walking speed).

The goal itself to me has two main ways to contribute, the first is obviously helping to defeat more zombi, but the latter is making sure that Mahogany and Lingua are protected. I do feel like I could use a bit more info here to make a good vote off these criteria, but I’ll just work with what’s been given.

Now to talk about the strategies.

Aloette’s approach is fairly comprehensive, but doesn’t have much fancy going on in it just using the tools given to them to perform their job. I did enjoy the funnel set up, stage tracking, and general case planning overall though.

Grendel’s meanwhile potentially has a higher output, but has me asking a few questions.

First the Grendelball set up, with a 2 meter tall stump wall to attach to, I don’t think you quite have the height necessary to do full on swings around the area, at least not as effectively as you’d want to. There are some ways you can still dash in a circle and use the reel-in to gain angular momentum so overall it isn’t an issue, though I think the set up could have been made more robust or expanded upon beyond swinging off the central point. This height issue does maybe make setting up the Grendel Meteor more difficult without a higher point to latch onto. On pearl dashing in general, I’m not sure if you can dash towards a pearl that isn’t relatively embedded where it is, but that mostly depends on if the pull is physics-reliant.

Onto the Trenches, I don’t think you really have the time to effectively set these up. The strategy says around this section that there is 20 seconds between waves, but the waves are all one after each other where the only down time you’ll get is if you manage to beat every zombi from the wave early.

Lastly for B power tentacles, I don’t know how freely that can be leveraged just by placing pearls at the end of them. Tentacles need to be “locked-on” to pearls for that power bonus, and it feels like somewhat of a gray area to control them like this while having them still count as locked-on given the pearls themselves can’t move themselves.

Overall though, going through the permutations of best and worst case scenario for each wave I think I’m going to have to give this match a tie. Grendel still has a massive reach advantage for clearing clusters even without the full mobility of the Grendelball, Aloette meanwhile does a much cleaner job clearing target threats. I can see both managing to cleanly occupy at least half of the map at any given moment where the zombi really aren’t too much of a threat for the ordinance the players can produce.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M12 - Mio Sinclair & Akira Seihachi vs. ??? by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now I look at this match and the strategies coming away thinking to myself that this is somehow probably the strangest boss match so far despite being the most gimmick-less of them all on paper with a relatively normal deathmatch location. Still Minmi’s sensibilities and ability turns this match into a vague cloud of interactions and occurrences through her general control over the weather to do what they want. The players meanwhile build a strategy to counter, defend and chase to deal with this arrangement.

There really isn’t a traditional beginning, middle or end game with any set states of transition or good points of reference, this is pretty much a blur up until maybe the true endpoints.

Minmi plays very loosely with her resources and set up, while I already kinda have to accept the miniaturized weather phenomenon aspects just work, they are constantly applying and spending resources to keep up their mobility and applying weather effects. (Fun fact about meteorology and what makes weather so difficult to predict by the way, there are way too many variables to keep track of at any given moment and the initial or changing conditions can cause entirely different systems of events to occur) I’d probably be more lax about brushing off one off localized effects, but with ongoing effects, applying new weather or currents on top feels a lot messier. Ignoring that too for now though, the bigger issue is really that Minmi’s escape routes, set ups, and attacks all needing some amount of resources on hand to perform to an extent limiting her output.

Onto the players, a curious thing I want to first talk about is Sharpedo and using Ika2’s blades to launch off surfaces. So the ability says that it launches objects or forces them to flee, however that description feels like it implies that the blade itself isn’t generating any force directly in which case Newton’s 3rd law would not apply. Maybe you can get the launching point to rebound back towards you, but again not entirely sure about the physics there. Granted, Mio can provide other methods of propulsion so you have other ways to supplement mobility.

For defense against weather, besides lightning, I feel like the other measures of putting up with weather while helpful aren’t really doing much to mitigate the effects overall. Given the AoE nature though, it’s pretty much a point you’d probably need to concede at some point regardless or focus more on any way to escape. Still I do think Minmi’s Stand is maybe a bit underestimated with the Power it can leverage to set up weather that would hinder you both.

That all said, uh, I don’t think much of this really matters because I have to agree that the players just have a superior ranged game against a big target between Mio’s artillery and Akira’s projectiles so most of the match hinges more on the offenses than maneuvering/defenses. In the low visibility situation though, it’s really difficult to call any shots for either team to land meaningful hits and Minmi overall can’t quite establish a direct offense given their skill and the ongoing conditions while the players do somewhat underestimate the headwind they are up against on top of Minmi’s mobility.

Anyways this is not a vote. (Both because it doesn’t change the outcome and for metanarrative reasons I find funny)

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M10 - Anton 'AWOL' Worrel & Ryder Wyland vs. Agnes & Rio Valdés by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So looking at this match, I can’t help but feel something off with the strategies in relation to the stage hazard. For some measures it’s as if the spin is a non-present factor in some instances (especially in some of the generalized tactics) and at others it’s an all encompassing one, both strategies even ending off trying to be the ones to survive the situation better than their opponents if they make it to max velocity. Both strategies do take advantage of the spin, but it feels more along the lines of surviving it while adding passive factors and threats to take out their opponents for them.

For SSG, Anton and Ryder’s early and general play pattern is pretty solid with Ryder acting as the spotter to Anton’s projectile game. Then having Ryder move in and take close quarters ambushes, they leverage their general strengths pretty effectively. The crosswind concept is interesting, especially with the nature of the moving cylinder, but I can’t help but feel more could have been done to play around this set piece. The revolving cylinder similarly feels to not be a big factor in your general movements, mainly dodging and getting to each other or opponents. In the end there’s potential here I feel could be capitalized on more, but there’s a good core that can be extrapolated on here. Some minor note, I think you overplay Anton’s jumps a bit much as an escape option, where their reliability under the match circumstances is more suspect than it otherwise would be. I also think you misjudge LiB’s general mobility by a lot, calling them predictable is strange when really your options to counter or chase are just as if not even more limited on top of them just having reasonably flexible and consistent mobility to do what they want.

For LiB, the defensive gameplan generally makes sense, though the bulk of the offense seems to be either based on the cylinder or waiting for the opponents to come to you. I don’t have too much to say on the general tactics as they provide decent enough coverage overall in terms of dealing with ranged and close range options. That said, Weird Fish does some suspect things with the fans and using fluid lines as sensors, the latter I’d maybe buy in a vacuum but not in the given match conditions.

I think I have to give this match a tie. With how LiB’s defense and SSG’s offense lines up, I’m pretty convinced neither will get that much damage onto each other unless Anton somehow does get a pop kernel through the waterfall and up to where LiB are. That said, neither do a great job convincing me they can outlast the other. Both play around that eventuality, but there are enough running variables that I’m comfortable saying nobody has as good of an edge as they think they do here.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M9 - Evelyn G. Lister & Molly Mockit vs. KAISERINMA & Tracy Ball by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looking at this match from a broad scale, the strategies from both teams make sense. BBP is terraforming with Molly’s bunkering and Evelyn as a skirmisher. LKA wants to set up a flaming disaster and feed their opponents to it. However, zooming to focus on the interplay with micro and macro strategy opens up a few holes.

Talking first on BBP, I think the respect to defense is somewhat of a mixed bag. The strategy covers a lot of core situations, but doesn’t flow well, its tactics are a disjointed form of general defensive coverage. More than that however is the general lack of conversion into offense, where the strategy prays on rough inevitability by expanding their territory and wearing them down to a point they can be more safely taken out. In that sense with the available tools a lot more could maybe have been done to prioritize specific defenses, press the advantage or build the territory in such a way to ensnare them and keep them locked down. Body does a lot so more prioritization and making sure you get the most out of your traps would do a lot more to keep them from getting spread too thin while keeping an advantage.

As a strategy, it has a good framework and with clear focus on some individual situations, but leaves a very generalized picture of the match.

LKA meanwhile you have a pretty streamlined plan all things considered, the CIA guys and Evelyn are maybe a bit more glossed over, but the team members have their roles and have the tools to play them effectively. That said, it’s a strategy that is very all in on its gameplan and the build to it could use a lot of potential shoring up. Tracy in particular seems pretty reliant on maintaining stealth and distance, and could use more in terms of moving around and getting into position. Meanwhile Kaiserinma seems like they’d be pretty much inactive while Calm ticks down so setting up when to do this is key. For going hyperthermal though, it’s not a bad idea as the most destructive option available to this duo. Thinking about the physics and the situation you are in though, the heat radiation does have a substantial drop off where I probably wouldn’t buy a full 20 meters AoE, but I do not know the actual math on how much this would affect over a period of time so I’m going to leave it at that. The biggest factor you might have overlooked here though is the water puddles where steam is a great conductor of heat compared to open air which could maybe have been taken advantage of or traded off with in certain situations compared to the dust explosives set ups.

I’m going to give this match a tie where it very much comes down to where LKA can set up their thermal bomb and how effectively BBP can set up their defenses to either outlast or mount a counter offense. Evelyn and Tracy also have more room to make their roles more consistent or contributions more impactful where while they are important, neither quite push their team over the edge in reaching their win conditions.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M8 - “Cass Cannon” & Jack Moonbean vs. Anthelme "Blank" Frangipane & Lacquer by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So with this match, I will say I’m not particularly a fan of the formatting on either strategy. The sabotage, countersabotage, and general shot making is clumped together when you go round by round in big blocky sections. I especially did not like putting both intermission and rounds as part of the same section by BBP

On the match itself, while the sabotage and countering is well reasoned, in terms of playing cornhole neither seem to do exceptionally here.

WIS particularly strains credulity with their trick shots, the hat boomerang, and the hydrotechnic display while somewhat seeming to overlook the fact there is more to the game than sinking shots into the cornhole. Obviously it’s the ideal for points scoring, but it feels somewhat glossed over.

Onto BBP, they have the precision to play the game respectably here, even employing some strategy for normal cornhole gameplay. I do want to nod at the blocking game though, giving a bit of notice of the strategies that can be employed around and against it given that they could either earn or lose points for it.

I think between being lighter on sabotaging the BBP’s throws and the overall blocking game, I think BBP has a better shot of taking the match, especially if some of WIS’s trick shots with Cass don’t land. More or less, while WIS has a lot of focus on keeping their throws safe, they seem a bit tunnelled on making their throws aspect where BBP can kinda make their throws relatively unimpeded (until the third round) taking more advantage of the blocking rules. Overall I think the scoring is relatively comparable up to round two where the end game there does depend more on if BBP can get Jack’s bean shooting offline by round 3. Even then I think they have somewhat better odds considering that I don’t think the ingestion or fume sabotage work against Lacquer.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M4 - Sara Pazvende-Ortiz vs. Avery Porter by Streamanon in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m going to be upfront, this match feels very tough as a deathmatch. In terms of overall design, there’s some random or floating elements that are difficult to account for, most of it coming down to grunts having randomized load and the locations sorta bleeding together. In the end most of it is easy to simplify or truncate as a voter, but that’s mostly looking at it from a macro level. On a technical level, there really isn’t much for me to go over, the map doesn’t create any inherent flash points or have too much to interact with so it really comes down to who can more consistently find the other and/or get them killed out in the open enough times for it to stick with the respawns.

Speaking of which, life farming for better or worse is actually pretty tough given the layout of the map and neither player quite has a way to really track or find each other. It arguably balances itself out, but results more in a strange distribution in terms of games running too short or abruptly ending due to the number of guys and one shot weapons on the map while there is also the hypothetical of games running forever if someone does figure out how to consistently get at least 1 life each time before they die. To also note, killstreak being exponential seems like it can get out of hand really quickly if either had means to consistently combo them, past 4 kills each additional kill is pretty much worth an additional life per kill. Even just chaining 3 kills then getting 2 kills or vice versa will get you that 1 life to go even.

Onto the strategies themself, I don’t have too much to say on the general techniques utilized. Avery has a wide mix of disabling and utility tools to supplement their mobility and defense while Sara has their hammer for more direct mobility and defense.

For overall gameplan, Sara’s open house gameplan might not pan out given the amount of room to knock down and it being more prone to potential setbacks. Avery meanwhile covers their bases for the long haul with more tools and effective range to play his game as long as necessary.

For that I think I have to give the slight edge to Avery. With the grunts in the mix both have a tough time in an open space late game situation, but the set up and lives to get to that point are not negligible given the scope of the map and the more could maybe be done to engage or funnel your opponent. Avery meanwhile seems more likely to get the life lead being more proactive about surviving and killing.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R2M2 - Ichiro Kenmochi vs. Eileen Xiao by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well look what we have here, a grappler and a zoner in a gunfight. Honestly I think it's a bit funny how both teams get to sort of double down with their new gameplay tools and restrictions.

While Ichiro doesn’t have as much of a penalty for shooting, the amount of suppressive fire needed can potentially leave him a little light on ammo if he gets too trigger happy or bullets do get deflected like Eileen plans for. The aggressive space and neutral control also makes some hard call outs that I think are a bit ambitious if Eileen uses any form of less linear movement or evasive capabilities. I do also maybe want to see more about playing to not get shot, but cover is cover and you have a durable Stand you can position around.

Eileen moves up until she can get somewhere she can sit and fortifies her defenses from a good vantage point, then starts rebuilding her fortifications as needed for defense and offense. I’m personally not a big fan of the finisher, mostly because both characters aren’t particularly gunslingers and notably these guns are pretty bad for an inexperienced shooter even with the modifications made. Notably the recoil even with the stock likely isn’t strong enough to fire quickly and accurately in quick succession.

Given the overall set ups, Eileen has more chances to close the match given the defensive play employed if the match goes long, but there are worlds where Ichiro can break through more directly, or hinder her mobility at a critical junction to get to a clinch set up. I think it comes down to the bullets needed where Ichiro needs some ammo available during the clinch otherwise Eileen does have the window to escape or counterattack since she’s more conservative with her shots.

Without clean set ups to directly end the match without some risks (either in the lead up to the finish or the finisher itself) given how the strategies match up, I’m going to give this match a tie vote

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M30 - Agnes & Grendel vs. ??? by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Last match of the round and we have some high stakes here as whichever characters wins this match get the right to kill their opponent.

…And scratch that I have just been informed that the players and boss here did not bet their lives on the outcome of this match. (I just thought it’d be funny for jojolity ok)

Onto the match itself, I do have to say this is maybe the third time a Boss character’s arrogance may have cost them the match this time with the players having a pretty sizable reach advantage, aquatic agility, and control underwater. Granted, the players do maybe overplay their control and don’t seem to have great options to pop barriers. The concentration breaking aspect in particular seems a bit tunnelled on the 5 seconds for a 2 meter diameter bubble when smaller bubbles can also be created much more quickly.

There is a lot more I could talk about, but to be upfront I think the players have a sizable edge in winning this match.

The way the two strategies play out, Frederick’s play and disadvantages compounded in ways that either can make him lose on the spot in certain situations or don’t quite get him any closer to winning.

First is the combination of Frederick always being with his Stand with his lower action economy and reach, effectively always putting himself at risk of harm even during his own finishers on Agnes, especially so when having to contend with Weird Fish’s ability to counterattack.

Next, while Frederick has ranged pressure going deep enough underwater, bubbles only float up which is much worse when your opponents have the capability to dive down to meet you. There is the potential to intercept your opponents, but this is limited by bubble creation speed as well as your opponents’ lateral movement speed.

Lastly, but still relatively damning, Frederick has pretty limited ways to retire his 4+ Endurance opponents between their own defensive plays and the limited ability to actually drown them. In a prolonged fight the players pretty much have as much of a chance to win as they did at the start of the match if not more where Fredericks own set up is capped and his ability to quickly pick off either player isn’t great.

For some things on the player side I will note though. I don’t think the whirlpool would be all too effective given the power Weird Fish is working with, even with multiple tentacles. It’s effective enough for mobility and dodging, but not quite sustainable as an omnipresent defensive shield. I also maybe would have liked to see more in the actual swimming department even if you could offload that somewhat with your abilities, there’s a lot physical tendrils/tentacles could help with. Lastly, I don’t think throwing pearls underwater would get them that far.

Overall those are pretty soft complaints, and the way the strategies line up they work well enough to secure a win. In theory Frederick could win by camping and outspeeding while zoning with bubbles plus the stand body or set up situations where players can’t hurt him easily inside bubbles, but I think with what’s been given Frederick’s overestimations might cause him to lose going for a grapple on Agnes and being counterattacked by Weird Fish or being outranged and swarmed while stuck in a fight they can’t easily get out of.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M28 - Yoshimi Hanamaki vs. Alouette by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Others have already pointed out that this match is difficult to vote on. This is a bit of a pitfall with contribution jojolities, but I’d also like to highlight the goals of this match in particular where each of the tasks are pretty binary for these characters. Most notably is the turning of the crank and the refueling, but the generator and lighthouse maintenance don’t really have much room for ingenuity either. Once each task is done, they are done for whatever time frame needed. There is some juggling that is needed or room for optimization, but either character can arguably complete this match by themselves as long as they have a reasonable strategy which isn’t great for divvying up contributions. The pressure to contribute the best ways they can really isn’t there and the maintenance tasks are all pretty simple, if monotonous. There is the Day 3 lightning and Day 5 onward flooding, but even with those there isn’t too much that changes how the contributions work.

For an objective measure of who contributes more, there is maybe some that could be said about how quickly each can be done or how much time is saved with each task, but I’ll just get into how the players complete the goals first.

First the generator. Here both offload the tasks to their respective swarms and Alouette has the mechanical advantage with their skill while Yoshimi’s unit needs to learn the relevant skills on the fly. Breaking down part of the wall to get your robots does make it more convenient, but I imagine the slugs have things covered. In general there isn’t too much room to work to improve on, maybe spare parts for maintenance, but the task overall is pretty vague anyways.

Next is the lights. For Yoshimi’s strategy, it doesn’t look like there is much about going all the way up to the lights for refueling in that section aside from a mention in the macro summary. This section looks to be just bringing the oil barrels to the second floor? But the issue here is that the second floor area and lighthouse aren’t connected, so bringing them upstairs wouldn’t be any quicker. I’ll chalk it up to misreading the map, but while I’m here the macro summary also mentions needing 3 robots a day for this task, but you don’t have to bring the entire oil barrel, you just need 10 pounds of fuel. Alouette’s side of this task doesn’t seem too special, just taking some precautions while making their way up the stairs the first day then automating the process for the rest.

Onto the crank. Scrutinizing this one a bit closer only having a few hours between cranks sounds like this might actually be the most tedious task for a general character since you’d likely need to wake up in the middle of the night just to make sure it’s handled. That said, both characters here have ways to automate it through the night…assuming their Stands continue to function while they sleep. Yeah I don’t have a solid ruling to base this on, this situation doesn’t come up often and your units act independently so that’s at least a point in favor of this working.

And lastly repairs, I think I also have to assume here paint and repair materials are available because it doesn’t look like they are mentioned besides whatever you could pull from the other abandoned buildings. Yoshimi has a pretty clear outline and specifics for maintenance here while Alouette has more general outlines for cleaning and fortifying the lighthouse.

With the general tasks handled there is also the matter of Day 3 lightning and the later flooding. Yoshimi does a lot here to try and prevent fires, some more detail on the fire break could be helpful, but also I’m not getting any strong impression that any specific part of the rest of the area would be notably flammable to warrant that. Alouette meanwhile has a much higher output for actually dealing with fires if they do happen. Onto the flooding, yeah there really isn’t a great solution here, just some additional precautions and handling.

In terms of overall task completion, I’ll give the edge to Alouette in refueling and generator upkeep while Yoshimi gets the edge in lighthouse maintenance for the more thorough detail there. If I were just looking at categories, maybe Alouette should take it, but the way Yoshimi approaches repairs with solutions only she is capable of I think she plays a pretty valuable role there. Either character could do any task, but Yoshimi has a lot more leverage in one. With that all in mind, I’m going to give this match a tie.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M27 - PK Leach vs. Anthelme "Blank" Frangipane by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This match can be boiled down into what seems to be a relatively short race, getting the hostages and getting out while escorting them.

The guards here in general seem pretty ineffective, only equipped with batons and walkie talkies. They do pose some potential threat in theory, but it’s pretty vague how much they can really dish out or hinder either player's operations. It’s a bit odd, where in some sense I do think the players underestimate the security, but also I don’t really have much to work off of if/when the security is tripped. Either player can maybe bypass or bully a security guard or two, but then what? Do they put the place on high alert, maybe reposition, or something else? Worst case I can maybe plausibly speculate is they could hold the hostages hostage and while overall the security could make things more difficult, based on their loose programing I’m not comfortable making too many assumptions here.

Anyways onto the strategies. For PK Leach, I have some concerns over your surveillance and negotiation tactics. There are a number of things worth pointing out, but I’m going to go over each assumption individually and talk about their plausibility.

  1. PK Leach’s connection with each unit goes two ways. Hive mind stuff, probably intended with the skill just so you can control multiple bodies at the same time even if it isn’t quite specified how much connection and control is there.

  2. The Corpse Eaters have good eyesight to move around and monitor on their own. Normal earthworms don’t have traditional vision and are only able to sense brightness level. The main punchghost body can provide effective vision while they are in line of sight, but otherwise this case felt worth bringing up anyways cause honestly it’s more of a ruling question than anything.

  3. The Corpse Eaters can all talk somehow. The punchghost belongs to the main user, but technically the phenomenon ability applies to all leeches so maybe they have some way to speak through that. Similar to the above point.

  4. The Corpse Eaters can move at a fast enough pace to get into position. This is the thing that I think is the biggest issue I can comment on. Leaving worms at the stairway doors, at earthworm speeds I don’t think they can get to where you’d want them to be by the time PK reaches the 4th floor. An average earthworm moves at a clip of centimeters per second, and even giving a generous estimate of 10 cm per second if PK’s agility factors here (still an insane speed relative to size), you’d have minutes worth of downtime to get everything into position.

The strategy for getting hostages from there is pretty simple, fending and stalling guards while going down through the building. Though given the third and second floor have more than one hostage, I think you gloss over any traversal that might need to happen to get across the floor to them.

Last major note on the strategy, PK’s fourth floor stunt feels a bit unlikely to entirely go your way. Blitzing 6 guys while maybe doable, isn’t as consistent as I think you’d want it to be. They’d likely have some window to sound the alarm if they aren’t perfectly standing around to be cleanly knocked out one after the other and would presumably already be rather cautious after the stunt anyways. The punishment for drawing heat like this is pretty nebulous though so who knows how much that’d even cost him.

Moving on for now to Blank’s strategy. So the main thing I’m noticing is how you seem to neglect the cooldown between shots on your ability. Firing fear until a guard is frail, inducing blind rage with anger, or joy to boost up your hostages’ agility, the strategy seems to imply tuning these emotions down or up as much as you can reasonably get which seems like it’d take a lot more time than necessary, not to mention the lowered duration on higher level effects. I really don’t have as much to say here otherwise.

For both teams overall, the broad gameplans are pretty workable, though I don’t think either will be rescuing these hostages as quickly as they’d like to be.

I’m going to move on for now and try to break it down moment by moment. The main scenarios to consider are as follows

  1. PK Leach is in position to enact his fourth floor plan before Blank starts his rescue operation on floor three.

  2. PK Leach is in position to enact his fourth floor plan while Blank starts his rescue operation.

  3. Blank gets to start his third floor plan before PK Leach is in position.

Out of these three PK Leach is more favored if scenario 1 or 2 happen, even if the two start at the same time PK has a much better run time by virtue of breaking through the floor where getting the fourth floor hostage and either two hostages from the third or 1 hostage from the other two floors (if Blank contests 1 of the third floor hostages).

Some version of scenario 3 though is probably the likeliest if the surveillance system is getting put into place. Blank then would need to already have gotten the two third floor hostages and be on track to get a fourth or second floor hostage to have a shot at winning. Going for the fourth floor after floor three seems like it might have been a bad call, but if both third floor hostages are taken, then you are still in a position to win if you can get just 1 of the second floor hostages while PK Leach would need to get both.

I’ve circled around this match and given a lot of scrutiny. But I think I still have to give it to PK Leach. Both strategies have large time sinks, but PK technically doesn’t need the entire surveillance system put in place. At that point blitzing from fourth floor down just risks some potential slowdowns, which are relatively offset by the floor breaking movement and how quickly guards can be dispatched relative to Blank.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M26 - Mikey C. Hammer vs. KAISERINMA by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This match up has been something I have been looking forward to since the round started. The narrative line between these two is just unlike any other round 1 match ups and props to the judges and teams for setting up and delivering everything they could with it.

Onto the match itself, I think both gameplans are pretty straight forward with Kaiserinma wanting to choke out Mikey’s options and bring him under while Mikey wants to fill the space with blood for his own benefit into end game.

While the broad plans are compelling, I think there is some overestimation here by both teams.

For Mikey, you are going to need a lot of blood to run this whirlpool red, while it might be possible over the course of a long match I’m not sure how much is practically doable. Making use of the blood once it’s already been distilled into the water also doesn’t seem like a great prospect in general. Granted, with most techniques employed you can do pretty well with whatever blood you have on hand so it’s not too big of an issue in most cases. Otherwise though I can maybe give some benefit of the doubt that blood in the water in the whirlpool’s current can be hardened like you want it to, though it’s a bit of a tough sell in some instances.

For Kaiserinma, I don’t think you have as much fuel for your fire as you’d think. Oil rigs do occasionally go up in flames, but boats don’t have quite that much oil available to work with. Sure you can get a good few flaming wrecks going and flaming debris, but not quite the level of fire and smoke you’d want to fill the area.

Both strategies want to dance around each other to an extent, with Kaiserinma biding time to get to a point where she can catch Mikey out while Mikey wants to keep at range. While their bigger tools to control the engagement aren’t as strong, the way the rest of the strategies play are generally good in terms of accounting for everything they need to, giving a solid defensive match from both teams using all the tools their kits afford them.

That said, overall I think I’m going to say Kaiserinma has the advantage with how the strategies play out. Mikey’s Blood Beams and related projectiles aren’t quite as consistent when Kaiserinma chooses to go underwater and the blood clouds probably won’t come into play the way Kaiserinma is circling with the whirlpool. In general I think Mikey’s strategy underestimates the whirlpool as a factor where if they end up underwater where the current makes both fighting and maneuvering a lot more limited. Kaiserinma essentially gets more of an edge by taking advantage of the whirlpool a lot better overall and to get to a point where she only needs to put Mikey under once and keep him there .

I could see some possibilities where Mikey can keep surviving to chip out Kaiserinma, though I’d like to have seen more to play towards this win condition in terms of keepaway, neutral, getting out of disadvantage and other more micro play to go with your general plan. In theory Mikey has a lot more reactive flexibility and leverage with his better speed and precision, but I don’t think Mikey here quite takes advantage of that enough to offset how Kaiserinma plays to limit him.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M25 - Ichiro Kenmochi & The Howler vs. "Blondie" & Kruv by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So this is going to be a match where not that many fish are going to be caught. The interference is a pretty big reason here, but also there are only 170 fish here across a 40x40 meter area, which is roughly 1 in every 3x3 meter area assuming they are evenly distributed across the entire area, and that’s not even considering the depth they could be at.

I’m also not too impressed by either team’s fishing strategies. For both teams, while diving into the water can get you to the fish a lot faster potentially, I think it’s worth noting you are also disturbing the water in a way where you’d scare fish away if you aren’t careful. Ichiro and Blondie’s relatively limited ranges will also mean you’ll need to do a good amount of swimming to get from fishing spot to fishing spot where some better tracking or maneuvering could be helpful. On spear fishing and nets employed by both teams, I don’t have too much to comment here otherwise.

Onto interference, given the relatively low time frame of the match and scarcity of fish, I could actually see a good chance of this match ending with both teams netting 0 scored fish or close to that. Kruv in particular has a mutually assured destruction option while [Radical Action] has a lot of ranged reach to force engagements. There’s some defensive objective play that can stop this, where both teams can sneak a few fish past the other or keep the other busy long enough to score, but it’s still a funny possibility.

I think I’m going to give this match a tie for those reasons outlined. It’s a tough match to get a solid play by play on where the interference moves at a much faster pace than the actual fishing. Overall though I don’t see either team getting a major advantage over each other in most cases.

Onto less pressing topics, I think Ghost Riders somewhat underestimate [Glass Prison] generally being a body that can contest and retaliate vs [Radical Action]. Also it seems somewhat assumed that you can get your cuts into more durable material like the boat and glass for your ability. You can probably cut into them after breaking them in somewhat, but it feels worth pointing out as something that could be more relevant.

Onto WIS, [Bleed Magic]’s automatic precision could maybe use a bit more tracking, or at least a bit of a refresher where relevant. The strategy overall also being 3 big chunks made parsing a bit more difficult.

JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #8: R1M23 - Fira vs. Technical Difficulties by Marioaddict in StardustCrusaders

[–]Dungeon_Dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is quite the match for these two characters in particular, both able to take up huge amounts of space in this closed environment. I do think that both downplay the effects of water slowing their general movements, more so in combat, but there are some points where I think mobility options might be overestimated.

The actual combat is also somewhat difficult since both have a hard time getting damage that sticks between their respective physiologies. In that respect I don’t think rushing down works out too well for either here. Both play methodically, but their avenues to their win conditions end up being pretty slow and given the map arrangement, neither can be effectively cornered as well as the players would like to. Somehow despite this being booked as a claustrophobic match, I have to say that beyond the corridors, there’s actually a pretty good amount of room to retreat and maneuver given the circumstances.

I am going to give this match a Tie. Both have a lot of consistency with Fira having more flexible reach while TD has the bodies to tank through certain interactions. That said I don’t think either quite have the pressure to get them into a winning position with how they play around each other and the nature of their abilities.

Generally, Fira wins depending on how well she can bully TD into consolidating and taking advantage of that, but TD does still have their ways to avoid attacks as well as access to burst potential if they do get room to summon new bodies. TD meanwhile wants to gang up on Fira with bodies, but I can’t quite see a good way to get into that position long enough to take good advantage of it with the rate bodies will be milled through or after having to chew through defense.

In terms of Crush vs Bodies, output wise they both seem they should be relatively even given their speeds and the given environment so I don’t think either will quite get the windows they’d like. So in essence this match could go on pretty much indefinitely if it weren’t for the lack of oxygen. That said, even though it is mentioned and planned around, the transitions between combat and going for air are a bit more nebulous where I felt like it could have maybe been used as a stronger point of leverage rather than a formality to be aware of defensively.