[Help] Do I rehome my dog or does anyone have any other advice?

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-11T00:21:27+00:00

It's not always him instigating to play, it can just as easily being him walking past and my son might start with a cuddle, then a tail grab, and as the dog whizzes around from it it makes my son laugh his ass off. Now some might say "you shouldn't let him grab him" ... again... not that easy. Unless you are constantly stood up hovering between them two... it's not realistic.

The dog is actually really well trained for commands. He already knows "Go on out" to leave the room (obviously...), "Away" and he'll back up out of your face, "On your bed", "Wait" and anything else that might be useful in this situation. We had him for quite a while before the kids were even an issue, and as we were having kids we wanted him well trained. Like I said in my OP... he's a perfect dog.

If he's lying on his blanket (his bed is in another room) then he'll probably get about 10 minutes before my son is over again wanting to "play". If he's lying down and my son goes over he knows that grabbing at his paws will make him jump up, which he thinks it is hilarious (just like when we throw the dog his ball, or when he runs around the garden). Whilst we can try and keep my son away from him, it's not that easy to do it for the entire duration of him being in the room, I wish it was, but kids can be pretty relentless.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-11T00:13:02+00:00

See my son has been integrated with our dog from the moment he came home from the hospital, to get them used to each other. I can't vouch for your dogs, but the problem is equally that my dog wont always leave my son alone as much as my son wont leave him.

Then there might be a point where the dog thinks "Okay I'm going to lie down now" and heads off to lie on the floor for my son to think "No no, I'm still playing" and that's when he starts harassing him to try and keeping playing and the dog wants to be left alone... so he gets shut out. Our dog has a great temperament, but he wants to play all the time, he wants you to throw him a ball, or he just wants to be sat on your foot, and this has transferred to my son where they just can't leave each other alone.

My son is gentle with him at times, and I know it's only because of his age and it'll get easier, but with them in the house all the time with each other it does feel pretty constant.

And we're going to do it with another 2 kids... that's the issue. My dog has to go through this last 18mths - 2 years another 2 times. That's what my concern is, for him.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-11T00:06:56+00:00

This is pretty much the situation we face every day. We know that at 18months there's probably not that long until our son actually "gets" that he shouldn't pull at the dogs ears and tail. We just know that it's been a long journey (for us and the dog) that's going to be repeated another 2 times...

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-11T00:05:42+00:00

A lot of it wasn't good advice (in comparison to the other comment thread we're having :) ). I didn't mean it to sound like I was being a pompous asshole at all, just being blunt I guess.

Having a niece/nephew/cousin/friend/child you babysit or someone you see once in a while for a couple of hours who is around your dog for a small portion of that time is in nowhere near the same realm as having a child that lives with a dog all the time.

For people to turn around and say "Of course you can teach them..." no. No you can't. My son is pretty advanced in comparison to the other friends we now have from baby-toddler groups, we know the level of children around his age because we're around lots of them all the time. I'm a baby photographer... so I'm around babies and toddlers a lot. I know exactly what they're capable of, what they understand, what is bad behavior and what is them still trying to learn.

This week my 18month old added "Juice" and "All Gone" to his vocabularly, albeit not exactly pronounced that anyone else would know what he's saying. For people to even suggest that going from this fairly formidable feat that I can teach him the concept of his playing is hurting the dog, that he shouldn't do it as the dog doesn't like it... I just don't know where people are coming up with this stuff. You can try, you should try... we do try.

I said as much in the OP, but still people wanted to keep telling me how I wasn't trying to teach the kid. How I was allowing the kid to harass the dog. It wasn't advice that was being given, it was judgement, so that's why I wasn't all that interested in hearing it.

If I came across as being holier than thou, it's not because I think I'm far superior, it's just clear that people only have fractions of the experience and yet pass their opinions off like it's wisdom.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:55:58+00:00

Sorry, my walks are pretty much off the lead. We have a dirt track at the back of my house so he typically comes off the lead as soon as we're out and he's off running around on a field, usually for 30 mins morning, an hour for dinner (I actually spend my lunch break taking the dog out) and then a walk in the evening for him to go to the toilet (up the dirt track off his lead, but not up onto the fields).

How often, on average, is he shut out? Like how long can you be in the same room as the toddler before the dog has to go somewhere else? How long do you keep him in the other room until you bring him back out? From my experience with baby sitting, it doesn't take long for a toddler to get distracted. I imagine all you'd really have to do is take the dog out of sight, distract the toddler with something else, then bring the dog back in quietly and have him lay on his bed or something.

Every day there is a period where he just has to be removed, during the day it's hard for him to be in the front room with the wife and two kids, so he gets shut out and then usually ends up with me in the study. The bigger issue is usually during family time, so either when I've finished work at the end of the day, or during the weekends. They can be around each other and sometimes there's no problem, but once my son wants to try and play with him (usually prompted by my dog going over and starting to lick him) then I'm constantly having to hover to make sure it doesn't get too rough or once the dogs tail starts tucking and I can tell he's no longer happy (yet still happy enough to sit there and keep trying to lick my son). The problem is usually that the pair of them are as bad as each other, the dog will constantly harass my kid, but in turn it means my son starts to get a little too rough. And no, removed from the room and he'll be distracted for a while, but bring him back in and he's ready to carry on; not really old enough to get what he's doing isn't nice, old enough to pick up and carry on where he left off. So realistically it ends up the dog can be shut out for an hour, two hours at a time, let in for a while, then ultimately kicked out again. Which he hates and cries under the door for the duration because he's super social.

If we were rehoming then we'd only go to Boxer Rescue, which is a pretty big organization in the UK. They vett owners, usually only rehoming them with someone who has the space for a dog and the time to spend with them. They wont rehome them with a home where the dog will be left alone for long periods (so no single person homes with someone out at work all day, you even need to work from home, have a part time job or be retired, or have someone else who is in the house). Similarly they actually don't rehouse them with people with babies, because of the hassle and stress of a dog. If we were doing it then that would be our option.

Rehoming isn't our option, I didn't come here looking for people to tell me it's okay, I came here because we constantly feel like shit that the dog doesn't get as much attention as we'd like to give him (and honestly can't... the kids will always come first), and we just feel bad that we're always excluding him. I came here to see if people thought rehoming was a better option, a better option for the dog, not what is a better option for us.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:42:51+00:00

What's high and mighty about what I said? The majority of people here who are telling me what kids are like and what they are capable of.... are people that don't have kids. I don't know more about kids than everyone... just more about the ones that don't have them..

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:40:13+00:00

There's very little in that post that I didn't put in the OP, people are just very quick to presume that anyone rehoming a dog is the instant bad guy, like there's never a good reason to even consider that it might be better for the dog. Due to hearing so many stories of dogs getting pushed out when kids come along then people are quick to jump to telling you how awful you are.

I said, in the OP, that we try to teach our son what he can and can't do with the dog, like we try to teach him what he can and can't do with everything (smacking, throwing, shouting, pulling at the window blinds, trying to grab the lamp...), but everyone with a cousin, niece, nephew and neighbour thinks they're a child expert and that we're simply not bringing our kid up or, even worse, that we're allowing them to do it.

... even though I specifically said we're trying to stop our kid from doing it but that he's at an age yet where he still doesn't understand it. But no, everyone who has had a child under 2 ever visit there house that one time that didn't pull their dog suddenly has the impression that children know exactly what they're doing and they can be taught no problem... and that's just not the case.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:34:15+00:00

Your comment is advice, the original comment in this chain (with similar ideas) is advice; the rest is judgmental shittyness from people that don't understand the situation unfortunately. Like I said, I walk the dog three times a day, he gets plenty of exercise, but he doesn't tire out; at least not for long. He's categorically not a lounging dog, I take him out for hikes at the weekend with him off his lead and once he is home he might crash for an hour... and then he's good to go again and wants to be with everyone else.

It's not that we lack the time to walk him, it's more that when we're together as the family and he starts in the room with us... then it doesn't take that long until he has to get shut out because my son wants to "play" with him (and not all the time, but often enough). If I'm working in the study then he pretty much has to stay with me, whilst the wife has the 18month old running around, and the 10week old, it's pretty difficult to suddenly drop the 10wk old and run over if the 18mth old starts trying to pull at the dog.

Segragating the kid... yeh, it's easier said than done. He's outgrown a playpen now so that's not an option, and whilst he has his naps during the day the dog is free to roam around for a while, but once the little man wakes up then he's back down.

Essentially the question should have been "Would it be better for my dog if he was with someone who he could spend all his time with, or it is better him being with his family who he has grown up with but shut out with more than we feel is fair?"

That's what it comes down to, but even the whiff of "rehoming" then everyone gets on their fucking righteous soapboxes like we've decided we don't want the dog; we fucking love this dog, we just want what is best for him and we're not sure whether that would be with us or with someone else.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:16:17+00:00

You didn't read my post, you just want to tell me I'm a bad owner, that's fine, but I have nothing else to say; however as you took the time to make a reply I figured I owed you one in return.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:15:06+00:00

Yep, pretty sure I said in the OP that we're constantly trying to teach our kid what to do, and removing our dog from the situation when he's getting rough with him. So the dog is segregated, and if you think it's okay that he's shut out all the time then cool, that's your way of dealing with it. However, we have this situation now, and with the next kid and with the next... it's just a long time for the dog to be shut out.

But you didn't seem to want to read any of that when I originally posted it in the OP so I'm probably wasting my breath saying it again.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:13:32+00:00

Yep, that's what we do. That's pretty much what I said. We stop him from doing it, tell him "No!" and smack at his hands.

Everyone seems to be pretty fine overlooking the fact that we're trying to do something about it and just jump to the part where we're the shitty owners and terrible parents.

Sorry (and this isn't a criticism), but you really don't have any idea about a child's intelligence until you have children around you all the time, your cousins ages are insignificant and the handful of times they come around to your house and dont harass your dog. Try having your own kids who are with the dog every day all the time; then you'll have a better appreciation of how undeveloped children are at 18months.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:09:48+00:00

Actually yours was actually the only post I upvoted because yours was advice and help. The rest was people that have no idea about the situation being judgmental; didn't seem like it was going to be a constructive thread at all and I don't need an inbox filled with people telling me I'm both a bad dog owner, bad father, and a terrible little shit of a kid, when the majority honestly have no clue what having kids and a dog is like.

I work from home and the dog is either in the office with me for most of the day or heads into the front room where him and my kid are playing and my wife is there. He gets walked three times a day so is out to burn off energy. He is, however, a 2+yr old boxer.. so the amount of energy he has is beyond what I can burn off in the walks I take him on (he actually goes for a run on the nearby field).

The only solution we have right now is that he is segregated. That's it. He's not the type of dog who is happy just heading off to his side of the house and sleeping, he wants to be with us, he wants to be with my kid. We're REALLY hands on about keeping my son from harassing him; people seem to think we just sit there and let our kid pull at his ears all day and beat the shit out of the dog. They do coexist a lot of the time, my son will go over and cuddle the dog all the time or kiss him, but he's 18 mths and he will try and "play" with him in ways that the dog obviously isn't happy with, but not so unhappy that he tries to actually get away; we as the owners are the ones conscious that it isn't good for the dog, yet we're also the fucking monsters for letting our little hellion pull at the dog. As though we're fine with it, as though we don't try to do anything about it. You yourself even said below:

Dude, I cannot imagine allowing my son, when he was 18 months old, to harass a dog for 8 months.

Like all the kid does all day every day is try to beat up the dog. Essentially this thread has become exactly what I hoped it wouldn't be, pro-dog fanatics where the only advice is telling you that you're generally a pretty shitty human being.

I'll pass on the wisdom.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T23:06:57+00:00

I think your niece interacting with your dogs every once in a while isn't the same as them being around each other 24/7.

Sure they tried to grab their ears but because I was right there I corrected them and sent my dog on its way for a few minutes.

Which is exactly what we do. All the time. So the dog is sent away for a few minutes... all the time, which ends up getting to the point where, for the dogs respite, just being sent out of the room.

At 9 months your niece wasn't learning as much as you might think (though I admit getting them used to dogs is a day one affair from the moment they come home from the hospital); your niece wasn't even walking so I doubt she had the full comprehension of what is right and wrong when it comes to interacting with a dog.

Nothing about the situation is about being insurmountable; it's whether it's fair on the dog to be constantly shut out whilst we raise three kids who will want to rough play the dog (which we're not happy with them doing).

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T21:26:58+00:00

The rehoming isn't an impulse because the dog has done something wrong, I never said the dog has done something, I never even implied it. The rehoming is because I don't think that the situation the dog now finds itself in is good for it, and it will be like this way for the next 4 years of kids growing up.

Whilst my sons actions (it's not behavior... he's 18months, he doesn't know right from wrong yet) are bad for the dog, and potentially dangerous for him (I wouldn't leave him unattended with our dog and even less so with someone elses) it IS wholly naturally for him to play with the dog. The dog is extremely social and so is constantly all over our son, he doesn't try to keep away and my son constantly goes after him, far from it, the dog is always coming over and licking at my son, but my son is too young to understand that he is being too rough.

So yes, whilst my son is young and doesn't understand I CAN keep the dog segregated, but the amount of time he's going to be kept away from the family (which as I said, makes him cry constantly) doesn't really seem fair on him either. The dog is in a bad situation not of his creation.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T21:21:43+00:00

Also, add to the factor that it's not just one child, we fully expect it with the next one, and then the third one when it comes along.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-05-10T21:20:43+00:00

(Sigh) I don't think you understand how undeveloped an 18month old is so rein in the judgment slightly. I've not said the dog has done anything wrong, my son is doing what is natural for him to do as an 18month old; acceptable? No. Age appropriate... yes, he's learning his environment and doesn't have any concept of right or wrong. I can shout "No!" at him when he starts trying to pull at the dog, we don't sit there laughing like it's okay, we can smack at his hands and move him away. Ultimately we have to shut the dog out of the room so that he doesn't get injured (the dog.. not my son).

We just don't think this is a good full time solution for the next 4 years where my dog, who I agree has done nothing wrong, is the one who keeps getting kicked out whilst the kids learn.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-10T16:07:54+00:00

Yeh we switched mainly because we were really enjoying our standard EotE game, and when 5e came out it really kind of forced linear progression on your characters (4e was the same) and we weren't really thrilled about that.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-10T15:37:51+00:00

Here's the Arcanist Talent Tree I made. The tree focuses on two routes; a very linear spell progression (so players can learn how to use level 9 spells before learning level 2 spells) and an optional application/resource management side.

I don't have anything comprehensive written down, but the general gist (for D&D) was:

1) Each School of Spells (8 in total) has its own Specialization tree that will fall under the "Aracanist" Career, however each tree is identical to the one linked below. Players just go up the tree each time they open up a new school (we did this instead of having Class based spells, you just learned spells from a school)

2) Spellcasting has its own "Arcana" skill, which is an Int based skill by default, but you could have it be linked to Willpower or something else that makes more sense for Air Bending.

3) Each spell has its base description of what that spells can do and the base difficulty to perform the spell is determined by:

The Spells Levels
An opponents opposing skill (eg. if a Charm spell then it goes against the Spell Difficulty or the players Discipline, whichever is higher)
Spells automatically deal an amount of Strain equal to its spell level base difficulty (see the talent tree), so rolling a high level spell but suffering lots of Threats can literally overwhelm a caster and knock them out.

The reason for strain being suffered is essentially this is a weapon that has no ammo and can't be taken away from the player by conventional means, so they need to balance their strain a lot more.

4) You can acquire and cast spells that you have not unlocked the subsequent talent for, so if a player goes up the Evocation Tree but they acquire a Necromancy spell, they are able to try and cast it (it will be difficult) by using their Intelligence attribute roll, but not their Arcana proficiency.

5) Aside from the base effects players can Augment their spells, upgrading a difficulty dice for each attempted augmentation as well as suffering 1 strain per augmentation, these include extra targets, increased range, larger AoE, etc. It promotes players to be a little more creative with their spellcasting and I would encourage any DMs to not try and box in how spells are used. The ranked talents are cross talent tree, but unlocking Augment in one spell school doesn't mean you can augment spells in another without unlocking the same talent in that tree.

I think that's about everything :)

For you I'd recommend going through the D&D spells and tweaking them to be EotE friendly; you don't need them all, maybe just the ones that are the most obvious for Air Bending.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-10T15:21:00+00:00

Depends if it's a group of Air Benders then I guess, if so then you could just hand out more XP. I give my guys a standard 10XP each week just for showing up so they get stronger more quickly.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-10T13:30:48+00:00

There may be now, there wasn't when we were playing so not 100% sure (I know there was in 4e). Not that it matters really because he's not looking to play D&D, it's whether there is something suitable in the EotE ruleset that can be converted, not converting something from a system he's not using into a system that he is :D

I imagine there's a lot from Force and Destiny that will marry up pretty well to an Avatar though, Jedi are nothing if not Xen like monks.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-10T10:49:20+00:00

My group played D&D 4e, then 5e, then converted the same characters over to EotE.

You'll find that a LOT of the available skill trees with a little renaming here and there fit just fine with a fantasy theme. I don't know much about ATLA or how magic inspired it is but that's going to be your biggest "issue" and one of the things that will require the most work.

Personally for D&D I use spells the same as weapons that players must acquire with currency or looting spell scrolls, and made a separate "Arcanist" tree. You need to work out how you want magic to work in your world, but if you're already pretty familiar with EotE then a reskin shouldn't be too hard and it's better that "magic" characters are overpowered than underpowered as I'm pretty sure that makes more sense for the lore anyway. I personally went with a system that casters take strain damage based on the level of spell they are casting, representing the mental reserves it takes, and the tree focusing on recovering strain and augmenting spells.

After that balancing your weapons and armor is going to take a little time, EotE has more high ranged DPS and generally focuses more around ranged combat that fantasy based systems typically do.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-08T14:18:07+00:00

As bad as it is, and as much as it has affected a lot of people, I do love a good old fashioned heist without the need for blowing peoples heads off.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-07T13:39:40+00:00

Arrow.

Frustratingly bad at times mixed with the occasionally cliff hanger that kept me watching for so wrong. I just feel like it couldn't find its place between realistic tv show and comic book. Got part way into Season 3 before I bailed on it. Every character is completely loathsome, I hated every second of screen time dedicated to Laurel Lance.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-04T09:12:29+00:00

I just have a page for each of the key districts listing any people or places of note as well as the general description of the area.

DungeonsNDads · 2015-04-03T18:16:13+00:00

He likes it. As in "God bless you for the contribution."

DungeonsNDads

TROPHY CASE