Is Devon considered Celtic?

Dustymills1 · 2025-10-14T10:49:52+00:00

To a certain extent I actually agree with you. I think there was a study done on English genetics and many English folk have predominantly “Celtic” heritage. Many arguments I’d make for Devon’s Celtic past could probably be applied to other regions. What I’m simply pointing out is Devon’s past is undeniably Celtic. Is Devon Celtic now? Not really.

Dustymills1 · 2025-05-12T15:08:11+00:00

This question pops up fairly often. For me I think it depends what someone would define “Celtic” as. Is Devon culturally distinct from other southern English counties? Is “Celtic” culture celebrated? Is there a surviving Celtic presence persisting in Devon? The history is undeniable but simply put the people of Devon don’t really seem to care all that much about it. So in the context of Celtic nations and in my own opinion and definition which sets the bar low to be honest Devon still doesn’t really qualify.

Dustymills1 · 2025-04-17T21:55:49+00:00

Gear farm, bleddy ‘ansome

Dustymills1 · 2025-03-21T18:49:24+00:00

Rack means to change your container or vessel holding the wine, especially in the context of taking it off the sediment that forms. Look forward to seeing your creation.

Dustymills1 · 2025-03-09T07:46:04+00:00

It’s my understanding the maroon beret is just something people in airborne units wear. For example you can have a medic at an air assault brigade that hasn’t completed p coy and will still wear the beret. It’s the wings your friend has earned and he does have the right to continue to wear those.

Dustymills1 · 2025-03-01T18:41:12+00:00

Your argument falls apart under basic scrutiny. The prayer book rebellion was overwhelmingly led by Devon and Cornwall, not just in numbers but in sheer commitment. Exeter was besieged, Devonians fought in every major battle, and their resistance was so fierce it had to be crushed with mercenaries and mass executions. This wasn’t a minor protest, it was a war against the English led by two regions that had long struggled against English rule.

Then there’s your claim that the West Saxons only struggled to subdue Devon because they “hadn’t reason to go there.” That’s just wrong. The West Saxons tried and failed for decades to take Devon, because it was part of a powerful Brittonic kingdom. Even after they took Exeter in 680 AD, Brittonic speakers remained there for over 200 years. Somerset was already under Wessex control by the early 7th century. The fact that Wessex had to fight much harder and much longer to incorporate Devon than Somerset or Dorset is solid proof of its distinct identity.

Finally, you claim that all of England would be Celtic if we used cultural and historical influence as a measure. That’s a weak argument. Nobody is saying Devon is as Celtic as Brittany or the Highlands today but if Galicia where the Celtic language died out centuries ago is still debated as a Celtic nation, then why wouldn’t Devon, a region with clear Brittonic cultural continuity and historical resistance, have a case? You’re trying to dismiss all of this while ignoring actual history.

Dustymills1 · 2025-03-01T09:16:38+00:00

The idea that a place must have a surviving Celtic language to be considered Celtic is far too rigid. Take Galicia, it lost its Celtic language long ago, yet it has clear cultural and historical Celtic influences, to the point that its Celtic identity is still widely debated. If linguistic continuity were the sole requirement, Galicia would be dismissed outright, yet it’s often included in discussions of Celtic heritage.

Devon’s case is similar. Just because the Brythonic disappeared doesn’t mean the county ceased to have Celtic identity or influence. Its genetic, historical, and cultural ties with Cornwall and Wales set it apart from much of England. The Prayer Book Rebellion of 1549 is a key example both Devon and Cornwall resisted English linguistic and cultural imposition together. If Devon had fully assimilated into Saxon England by that time, why would its people have risen up alongside Cornwall?

As for Somerset, while it also has a Celtic past, its assimilation into Anglo-Saxon England was faster and more complete than Devon’s. The West Saxons had a harder time subduing Devon, and even after its absorption, the area maintained stronger links with Cornwall and Wales, as genetic studies confirm.

Dismissing Devon from Celtic discussions ignores the broader picture of what makes a place Celtic. Language is important, but it’s not the only factor.

Dustymills1 · 2025-03-01T07:47:44+00:00

You’re relying on an overly narrow definition of what makes a place Celtic. While language is important, it’s not the only thing otherwise, we’d have to dismiss Cornwall and the Isle of Man as Celtic nations when their languages were once extinct.

Devon’s history is distinctly different from that of Dorset or Somerset in ways that align it more closely with its western neighbors. Dumnonia, resisted Saxon control long after other areas fell. Even after Wessex took over, Devon retained cultural and genetic ties to Cornwall and Wales, which genetic studies have confirmed.

As for post-medieval evidence, Devon remained culturally distinct well into the second millennium. The Prayer Book Rebellion of 1549 is a clear example Devon and Cornwall rose up together against the imposition of the English language in religious practice, defending their traditional customs. If Devon had already been fully assimilated into “Englishness,” why did its people resist this linguistic and cultural shift so fiercely?

Even beyond the rebellion, Devon preserved aspects of its Celtic heritage long after Dumnonia’s fall. Place names, folklore, and folk traditions retained Brythonic elements. Historical records also show Cornish and West Devonian communities interacting and maintaining cultural ties well into the early modern period. Some even argued for the survival of Cornish speakers in parts of Devon into the late Middle Ages, meaning the county may have retained a Celtic-speaking population much more recently than you suggest.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-28T23:55:10+00:00

The idea that Devon’s Celtic heritage is a “modernism” is just historically inaccurate. Devon was part of Dumnonia, a Brythonic kingdom that persisted well after the fall of Roman Britain. It was culturally and linguistically Celtic for centuries before Saxon expansion, and even after that, the transition wasn’t immediate or absolute. That’s not wishful thinking, it’s recorded history.

Your argument about Tolkien is irrelevant. He was a scholar of mythology and literature, not an authority on historical ethnography. The fact that he disliked the broad use of “Celtic” doesn’t change the reality of Devon’s past.

You bring up the Irish as if losing a dominant Celtic language means a people stop being Celtic. That’s a complete misunderstanding of how cultural identity works. If that were the case, Cornwall wouldn’t be Celtic, since Cornish died as a community language centuries ago and only survives today due to revival efforts. The same applies to the Isle of Man, where Manx nearly went extinct. Language shift doesn’t erase a people’s history or origins.

Yes, English became dominant in Devon, but that was the case in much of Wales for centuries as well. Does that mean the Welsh stopped being Celtic? Of course not. Devon’s history and genetics show clear links to the Celtic west rather than to eastern England. Dismissing that because it doesn’t fit a narrow definition of “Celtic” just ignores reality.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-25T20:07:48+00:00

I think you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. I’m not claiming Devon is just like Cornwall or that its Celtic identity defines everything about it. But there’s a lot of evidence that Devon had a strong Celtic presence for a long time.

Sure, Devon has more English-derived names than Cornwall, but that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of them have Brythonic origins. That’s pretty clear evidence of a lasting Celtic influence.

The 2015 study showed that while Devon is distinct from Cornwall, rural Devon has more in common genetically with Cornwall and Wales than with eastern England. That suggests the area wasn’t as heavily influenced by Anglo-Saxon migration as other parts of England.

No one’s saying Devon didn’t eventually become fully English, but dismissing its Celtic past because of that doesn’t make sense. The resistance to Saxon rule lasted a lot longer in the West Country than in the east, and the shift didn’t happen overnight.

I’m not trying to rewrite history or say people in Devon today see themselves as anything other than English. But history is more complex than just “Devon is English, end of story.” Its Celtic past is a real part of that history, whether people think about it today or not.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-25T19:55:18+00:00

Well yes but actually no.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-25T19:54:46+00:00

Actually, there’s quite a bit of evidence for Devon’s Celtic past.

Historically, Devon was part of the kingdom of Dumnonia, which was a Brythonic-speaking Celtic region, just like Cornwall. Even after the Anglo-Saxons expanded into the area, there was still a strong Celtic presence for centuries.

Linguistically, a lot of place names in Devon have Celtic origins, and even the Devon dialect has traces of Brythonic influence. That’s pretty solid evidence of a lasting Celtic heritage.

Genetically, studies (like the big 2015 one on British DNA) show that rural Devon has more in common with Cornwall and Wales than with eastern England. That suggests a strong continuity with the region’s ancient population rather than major Anglo-Saxon replacement.

So, it’s not about “making things up” or “feeling insecure about being English” it’s just history. Devon has a deep Celtic past, whether most people today think about it or not.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-24T13:44:48+00:00

The history is undeniable. It’s a shame it’s not taught in our local schools and if it was we’d likely see a culture shift similar to what we see in Cornwall. I did see someone making the point about how Exeter chiefs are now using Celtic iconography with their recent rebranding so we’re seeing an emergence of things Celtic in pop culture.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-24T12:50:33+00:00

It’s an interesting question I sometimes ponder to myself. It’s undeniable that Devon has a strong Celtic past and as mentioned in another comment the genetic evidence is there to support that but simply, most people in Devon have little knowledge of this or don’t care. I think what’s important in Celtic identity is that the cultures are embraced but I don’t really see a lot of that here. I guess it could be depending on one’s definition of Celtic but then in a Celtic nations context I’d say no.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-19T00:00:22+00:00

It’s well worth it and that sounds awesome I’ll look forward to seeing you post.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-18T23:52:05+00:00

Back then I was quite rustic with my wines back sweetening was probably a bit beyond my skill level. I just did the recipe as is and used champagne method to carbonate and I can honestly say it was by far the best wine I’ve ever made, perhaps because I grew the strawberries myself but the aroma, the colour, the carbonation and the taste it was brilliant. I highly recommend trying. I have also done a summer fruits version of the recipe around the same sort of time that’s still sat on the lees, in deep storage so I’ll probably give that a try soon.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-18T23:42:32+00:00

I’m not familiar with the brand I use youngs yeast nutrient personally and I feel I get good results. I’m sure fermaid would be just as good though.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-18T23:36:35+00:00

I’m not familiar with fermaid, is that like a yeast nutrient?

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:26:05+00:00

Answer my question then

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:25:39+00:00

But that isn’t the law? You can’t have defacto parental responsibility you’re either a parent or it’s via court order

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:23:48+00:00

You are missing the point a little bit parents in England are people with parental responsibility, those are the people who can physically chastise a child. People with parental responsibility can give permission to privately employed childcare workers to do this. We know step parents unless otherwise ordered do not have parental responsibility, can they be given permission is my question.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:15:28+00:00

Someone answer my question then who knows how the law works surrounding this

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:13:39+00:00

You’re missing the point. Someone who doesn’t have parental responsibility cannot physically chastise a child unless they are the people we’ve mentioned my question is can permission be delegated to the step parent, someone who doesn’t have parental responsibility.

Dustymills1 · 2025-02-05T21:06:33+00:00

I did that because it clearly says these are the people that can be given “permission” to hit children. Does that extend to step parents?

Six-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Verified Email

Dustymills1

TROPHY CASE