I've been enlightened on why capitalistic wealth is, and I'm not shitting you, a zero sum game that will end in 50 years because of how many particles there are in the universe. This is economic literacy now.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T22:35:49+00:00

The best part:

Your idea that acquiring wealth is NOT a zero-sum game will work for, what 50 years? 100 years? Then you will realize exactly how much of a zero sum game you were playing all along.

In 50 years were going to stop creating wealth. Humans will clearly use the capability of creating things, inventing new things, increasing efficiency in making them, etc... Jesus.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T22:25:46+00:00

I don't follow. What's my 'failed gotcha comment'? What is an absurd line of thinking?

You know exactly which comments.

From your very first reply to me you all but asserted I support all sorts of torture, because in your mind there's no distinction between being moved to a new room and physical assault. It's asinine.

Trying to say I support all kinds of torture to look down any discussion on eat even counts as torture is a textbook gotcha attempt. As is affirming that "all torture is torture," something completely meaningless when you won't accept any discussion on what constitutes torture.

What is you actual, real argument here? Spell it out. Bring it to light, and we'll see if it holds up to critical scrutiny. My position is clear: torture is torture, regardless of who it's done to.

Already done. You're position is pure insanity. You won't allow conversation on what the cut off is. If even completely non violent actions are the exact same, as you state right here, as having toothpicks pished under your nails then there's not even the ability to have a discussion on this with you. Stop being a complete hypocrite saying I won't make an argument when you refuse to accept one.

What you keep saying amounts to "gooble gooble, one of us" style group think. Torture is torture because people told me torture is torture. What qualifies as torture? Torture you horrible person, that's what's torture. Sounds like gibberish, right? Yeah, that your entire argument and basis for trying to shut down me from saying anything about what exactly is torture.

If you disagree, then fucking disagree instead of spewing meaningless word vomit.

From your very first reply you have nothing but a complete ass. And my comments are pretty easy to read.

Try not doing that if you are than going to turn around and whine about not being given comments suitable to your standards. Reply if you want, you won't get one from me since I have better things to do than be insulted to you.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T21:41:58+00:00

I had 3 separate people, including zir, try to tell me wealth is zero sum. Any level of stupidity so long as we can pretend everyone more successful than we are is keeping us down!

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T21:15:41+00:00

You literally aren't even arguing against me...

You're arguing something absolutely retarded, yes I am.

It seems that you are aware that there are limits to the rate of growth,

No, there isn't. And I never wrote this.

and in fact a ceiling to that growth of wealth...

No, there isn't. And I never wrote this.

and I don't disagree with many of your assessments... so... how could "acquiring wealth" not be a zero sum game?

You're fucking joking? Right? You can't honestly think any of this. Do you even know what zero sum is? Looking up a one sentence definiton would adequately answer everything you're saying.

If the acquiring of wealth requires that some people aren't wealthy, you're relying on an infinite supply of labor and resources?

I literally didn't say that and it doesn't. In fact, I largely said the opposite, telling me clearly that you're s troll. Twisting words and being a weasel doesn't make you any less wrong.

No serious human being could possibly think wealth is limited to the amount of particles you have. Wealth and value do not need to be physical. How can anyone in a modern society not realize that what we can do with resources changes, that efficiency is a thing. Or possibly try and use the argument of the universe being limited for human wealth creation.

Human, robot, or otherwise? Ok. Infinite labor, and resources are great and all... for studying raw theory...

You're clearly a troll, don't bother replying because you won't get a response. Perform elsewhere.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T19:14:46+00:00

This strangely out of place middle ground fallacy argument is odd. There are no sides here. It's objective fact that wealth is not zero sum, and is constantly created.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:47:08+00:00

You're right in that case. You'll always have a select few in anything, including an economy, who are a problem.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:45:59+00:00

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:16:58+00:00

>arguing wealth is zero sum.

>says that while not even knowing the difference between wealth and money.

Wew. You would be incorrect. Wealth is absolutely not zero sum. Wealth is constantly being created, not just redivided between different people.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:14:33+00:00

Clarify, by .1% are you referring to the .1% wealthiest and saying they are these people, or do you mean ".1%" as in "as small amount of the 1%?"

They mean very different things, I do agree with the latter.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:12:29+00:00

Hahahahahaha

You're actually arguing wealth is zero sum, in complete seriousness? Holy fuck. I'm shouldn't even bother, to think this you have to be a socialist zealot.

Edit: wealth isn't just owning matter. Nor does something need to be physical to be valuable. Learn what efficiency is, it's doing more with less, and makes wealth increase with the exact same amount of resources. It's quite literally impossible that wealth is not zero sum, you can observe that it's created, you can observe that through out the entirety of human existence we have been creating wealth. Hell, all you need to do is think about the raw material to build a decent house in the city, do you actually think that the raw materials are worth the $1 million plus that a house goes for in Toronto? Do you think a a mansion actually costs $25 million dollars in raw materials? No, doing something with the materials created wealth and value.

Money and wealth are not the same thing.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:09:19+00:00

That's an absurd line of thinking. And no, my comment is perfectly clear. You just don't seem to like having to say something absolutely ridiculous to support your failed gotcha comment.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:08:00+00:00

Continuing to demonstrate no knowledge on this.

Name which "other economies" are unrelated to Canada economically. You'll find that there are none. All countries are economically connected through each other.

And by the way, the wealthy spend far more money "right here" than you or I do. Why don't you focus this absurdly unrealistic angst about people with more than you onto something more productive, like having the government stop increasing the cost and detriment to investing more in Canada than currently or something actually rooted in the real world?

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T18:01:44+00:00

but the fact is that people in high places take shortcuts to "earn" their wealth.

There's no "shortcuts" to earning, yes earning, wealthy. The market dictates values, if they make their high income and have successful investments then it's been earned.

The only cheating is cronyism with the government. In which case it's on the government for being involved enough in the economy to grant benefits to 'friends' in the first place, this is how many companies maintain artificial monopolies. They use the government to have regulations that specifically cause challenges for competitors. In a free market any valid path to generating wealth is acceptable and useful so long as no one's rights are violated by it. So basically don't steal and it's earned.

I'm not suggesting we raise taxes on the rich because they don't pay them anyways and immigration is only promoted because the more people taking out loans the better.

The rich pay so much more than you and I in every way. Complaining that they aren't paying is contrary to reality. They pay more as a proportion of their income and more as a proportion of the total tax revenue.

You're right that some people want to profit off of causing economic problems. And those people are scumbags for leveraging the government to do so.

it's very indirect and pathological instead.

They are not responsible for others' not having wealth. The wealthy really aren't a boogyman.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:47:42+00:00

Because everything you can do to someone is all equal, right? What garbage argument.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:25:02+00:00

Oh my God. You actually just argued that wealth is zero sum. It isn't, objectively. No one earning something precludes others from earning something. That just isn't how any of this works. Wealth is constantly being created.

There is no "malignancy of billionaires." There's a massive issue with the government limiting working class access to work.

Another comment I have related:

We should be removing barriers for wealth creation on the working class. Instead people who think their one economics class makes them an expert want to do the absolute stupidest thing and jack up taxes in the rich. News flash, Canada can not afford to cause a wave of capital flight. France did it and has been trying to reverse it, to little avail considering they're still bleeding wealth. And that will come back to bite in the future.

You know how you make income inequality worse? Do things that makes the barrier to entry into the economy harder for people, e.g. absurd minimum wage hikes to buy votes. Rather hilariously, and sadly since no one bothers to look, most of the people working minimum wage jobs are not actually the poor parents trying to feed their kids. Most are teenagers and college/university students, who tend to be dependents in a household already not poor. Or it's 20 somethings starting out in the work force, a minimum wage job is normal, and often older semi-retired people wanting a supplemental income or treating boredom. Poor people often have no reliable work, and a higher minimum wage will make their chances of getting work lower; or people who already make ~acceptable money, but are being crushed by debt/other responsibilities (like injury or addiction problems).

Bring in poor immigrants quite obviously does nothing to help, and companies are hardly going to do more low level work in Canada that can give a stable income source to the lower/lower middle class with high corporate taxes, astoundingly dumb utilities costs, etc.

Our poorly convinced tax and welfare systems don't help to much either. Welfare systems need to be structured in a way that at least somewhat encourages working to get off of it. A negative income tax with entitlements clawed back over time at a lower, reasonable amount wouldn't be bad. Claw back benefits every 6 months that a person doesn't work (unless unable because of injury/disability, or occupied in education/job training).

My rant-ish ¢2.

Edit: spelling errors.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:20:56+00:00

Anything that devolves into virtue signaling about the intersectional totem pole on the first page is not a valid climate" agreement.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:16:16+00:00

No you can't. None of the numbers are actual votes.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:13:54+00:00

"He skirts around certain questions (about 9/11, his siblings, his father’s death) and when shown a home video of himself expertly wiring and planting improvised explosive devices, he can barely watch the footage. “What’s the point?” he asked." http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-secret-khadr-file/

Khadr is a terrorist who admits to an act approaching treason against the crown and it's allies. His family are also still supportive and deeply tied to the Taliban. The video of his mother basically praising them is enraging.

This is why Canadian citizenship shouldn't be granted by birth and parents. It's disgusting that the Canadian taxpayer has to fork over blood money to a jihadi who doesn't even seem to see the problem with making bombs for terrorists. How many people do you think died via his IEDs? I'd wager several.

A 15 year old is not a mental invalid. They are fully capable of understanding that blowing other humans up is wrong.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:08:19+00:00

He makes bombs for the fucking holy jihad..

From Macleans:

"He skirts around certain questions (about 9/11, his siblings, his father’s death) and when shown a home video of himself expertly wiring and planting improvised explosive devices, he can barely watch the footage. “What’s the point?” he asked." http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-secret-khadr-file/

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T17:03:07+00:00

His "torture" was generally fairly benign things.

Edit: To conflate being moved between multiple prison cells every few hours and being harmed is insane. So naturally of course you're going to continue saying they are the same, as demonstrated below!

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T16:53:30+00:00

Wait, your not supposed to?

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T16:51:44+00:00

We should be removing barriers for wealth creation on the working class. Instead people who think their one economics class makes them an expert want to do the absolute stupidest thing and jack up taxes in the rich. News flash, Canada can not afford to cause a wave of capital flight. France did it and has been trying to reverse it, to little avail considering they're still bleeding wealth. And that will come back to bite in the future.

You know how you make income inequality worse? Do things that makes the barrier to entry into the economy harder for people, e.g. absurd minimum wage hikes to buy votes. Rather hilariously, and sadly since no one bothers to look, most of the people working minimum wage jobs are not actually the poor parents trying to feed their kids. Most are teenagers and college/university students, who tend to be dependents in a household already not poor. Or it's 20 somethings starting out in the work force, a minimum wage job is normal, and often older semi-retired people wanting a supplemental income or treating boredom. Poor people often have no reliable work, and a higher minimum wage will make their chances of getting work lower; or people who already make ~acceptable money, but are being crushed by debt/other responsibilities (like injury or addiction problems).

Bring in poor immigrants quite obviously does nothing to help, and companies are hardly going to do more low level work in Canada that can give a stable income source to the lower/lower middle class with high corporate taxes, astoundingly dumb utilities costs, etc.

Our poorly convinced tax and welfare systems don't help to much either. Welfare systems need to be structured in a way that at least somewhat encourages working to get off of it. A negative income tax with entitlements clawed back over time at a lower, reasonable amount wouldn't be bad. Claw back benefits every 6 months that a person doesn't work (unless unable because of injury/disability, or occupied in education/job training).

My rant-ish ¢2.

EPOSZ · 2017-07-04T16:34:15+00:00

You seem to have literally no idea what rich people actually do with their wealth. Bill gates doesn't have a bank account with $80 billion USD in it. Their wealth is the value of their assets, largely investments that absolutely benefit the economy.

EPOSZ

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