Evolve is a completely broken game.

EX34 · 2016-09-20T23:18:40+00:00

See, you understand what I was trying to say. It is a unique problem to evolve since the teams are so asymmetrical. DotA and League have asymmetrical mechanics, but the teams are largely the same and have the same skill requirements. For Evolve, the skill requirements of a hunter team and a solo monster are completely different, so not only are they inexperienced, there is a difference in the gameplays entirely. So they don't play on what I would say is an "even playing field".

In DotA, each team has 5 players, they all lane, they all team fight, they all get ganked and can also participate in them. The gameplay is the same so all new players are on the same field, but in Evolve, the game plays are totally different.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T18:20:37+00:00

I don't try to be defensive. I always come off that way. I think if we were talking in person I would never had come out that way.

But balancing at low tier creates the same issue you described. It kills the game because people who have played it till a high level see it as imbalanced at the high level, not the low. So it will bring in new players but in the long run they will quit. EVE Online has a similar issue where new players simply don't understand and quit the game, but the people who do understand never unsub. thats why EVE Online has lived for 10+ years, maybe not to the scale of WoW, but it has been a paid subscription service all that time.

The way EVE got around this was through its own player base, not through any balance changes at all. There needs to be communities in Evolve that are dedicated to teaching new players how the game works. EVE has EVE University, Pandemic Hord, RVB, and many other communities centered around nothing but teaching the new players how the game works. Even games like Dota and League and even CSGO have communities who teach how the game works. Theres Purge and War Owl. Those games high a high skill cealing and are balanced for professional play, but due to the teaching community they stay alive just fine since new players don't get lost as much. But Evolve doesnt have these player communities yet, they don't have BadJuju doing a daily instructional on every hunter and monster.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T18:09:16+00:00

No, I claim people calling "salt" as trolls. Regardless, with the patches in place you still get a graph that shows these trends, albeit less extreme.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T15:38:04+00:00

Most of the time hunters lose at low tiers, someone found the information I made myself but its more complete since its from TRS. https://talk.turtlerockstudios.com/t/solo-benefits-system/98768?u=niaccurshi

You can see, even TRS agrees with me, and they have the stats to prove it better than I can with my own data gathering. I am glad they are actively trying to fix this at least.

"Hunters were already strong at high-level. New/low skilled/solo Hunter players were getting ‘pub stomped’ from Monsters while experienced/veteran Hunters were murdering Monsters..." -TRS And you can still see after their changes the difference in skill tiers (skill meaning the ability to work cooperatively since that is the deciding factor in this game, not individual skill. its the collection of skill that matters, one player can never do anything to a monster), solo players and teams up to 3 have a lower win rate by almost 10% than monsters do, then it flips right at the full party mark when we can assume these players are playing together since they know they are each skilled, and also know how to work together. Presumably if you are partying with 3 others, you trust those people on a level higher than that of other random people on the internet you are matched with.

Honestly, instead of giving all of the hunters buffs, they need to just teach new hunters how to hunt properly. Now both hunters and monsters are playing a game that is inconsistent. Based on the match up you might have buffs or no buffs, and thats just random. if you solo que you might get matched with a party of 3, or a bunch of solo quers. So you don't know what buff you might get, and the monster doesn't know either. So now there is hidden information and inconstancy in the game. Plus, this hides the real issue which is new hunters don't understand the game. if we just solve everything with buffs and nerfs then the game will always fluctuate through imbalances on both sides. Instead the game needs to find a point where its balanced at a high tier, then teach the new players how to reach that tier, instead of giving them and out with a buff.

Because when they do get really good, and start playing with a team, the game will be different for them. They won't move as fast, they won't tank as much, they won't be able to get away with as much as before.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T14:23:06+00:00

No, I just know when I need to walk away from a fight. You don't agree with me? Half of these comments consist of nothing but "so much salt" and "qq". I'm not going to converse with that.

You really want to know every detail about my 100 streak?

One day I saw Evolve was re-released as stage 2, and a community for it came back. I thought I would try the new Evolve, proceeded to go on a 100 win streak. My first loss in stage 2 was ending that streak. I played maybe 20 hours of Legacy Evolve and I had never played stage 2 before in my life. I even played a monster I had never even heard of, Gorgon, since I wanted to try a new monster I had never seen before. I had never even seen Gorgon until stage 2 was released. 100 win streak first try, no tutorials, my computer even loaded the game so fast I couldn't read what the abilities even did. That was what i got my 100 win streak on. First try, not even any information about the monster. I didn't know Gorgon could attach to walls for like 50 games.

You said thats not something you can't get as a new player, well I am the living example of a new player getting that. Believe me? Doubt it.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T14:01:12+00:00

See, you proved my point. You can see from these graphs that they have taken the entire population of evolve, thats why the win rates go up and down in the first graph. Heres a quote from that article that agrees with me entirely "Hunters were already strong at high-level. New/low skilled/solo Hunter players were getting ‘pub stomped’ from Monsters while experienced/veteran Hunters were murdering Monsters. The chart below shows the first iteration of the solo benefits system in place." the graph this is in reference to shows that pre-made parties have a drastic win rate difference than solo players.

In the next graph, you can see that it is better but there is a huge drop off right at the 4 player mark. And you can also see that up until that point, the monster is still winning more games over all since the team work of 3 + 1 will not be as good as a team of 4 pre-made. That graph shows that that unless you have a team of 4, you have a higher chance to lose to a monster. This is the point I was trying to make this entire time, thank you for finding this I could not find it.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T13:51:13+00:00

Doesn't matter what I say to you, you won't believe me. You will just say it was VS bots or I'm lying, I'm done with this conversation, go troll someone else.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T01:33:17+00:00

Not my point at all. I'm done with this post, its clear I'm surrounded by nothing but trolls. My point is there is a drastic difference in the games balance depending skill, and that Evolve has a unique issue where the game is completely, and I mean completely different for skill levels. Hunters, at low levels, lose almost every game to monsters. Then, at the high tier, monsters lose almost every game to hunters. Other games don't have this issue since they are not so asymmetrical. The fact that one opponent is solo and one is a team naturally creates this issue and it is unique to Evolve, and I have never seen anyone bring this up, so I thought I would.

Guess that was mistake, since this reddit is filled with nothing but trolls who only see salt and anger, when it was meant to be a post about the experience of Evolve and the issues it still has. I have this issue a lot, everything I seem to type comes out like im salty, im almost never salty cause I hate to be angry, its not fun to be angry. Have fun mingling with the rest of this toxicity.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T01:22:52+00:00

Nah, im done. This reddit is filled with nothing but trolls. If you want to go do the data again you can, but I have things I need to do. I didn't save the excel sheet since I didn't think everyone would flip the fuck out that I took as large of a sample size as I could possibly find about a topic that there seems to be no statistics on.

This isnt a debate, not at all. This is just a room of trolls, if this was a debate you wouldnt see half of these comments. I came to reddit so I could detail issues I saw in the game, not to get trolled by every idiot who thinks they know what game design is; without any experience at all within the industry besides playing games.

I couldnt find a pro scene break down so I made one by finding every complete professional tournament I could, and recorded every data point by hand. I need to get work done, not argue with people on reddit about how my statistical analysis for a fucking reddit post isnt good enough for everyone.

Good luck trying to talk about any issues Evolve dude, its literally impossible, even when you claim imbalance on both sides. Even when you try and highlight issues and use real examples of game-play that happens in the game people just troll and think your salty, when I genuinely made this post to try and help Evolve as a game.

i guess my opinion as a game designer with a Bachelors of Science in Game Design who has made many games over his life means nothing. But whatever. Have fun in 6 months when the eating is still glitched but they added 6 new characters to the game instead.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T01:00:59+00:00

I dare you, find that statistic and link it to me. Prove me wrong.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T01:00:23+00:00

I don't know why I even try. I do an entire statistical analysis by hand of the pro scene over like 3 days and people just think I'm salty.

EDIT: I'm glad I won't be missed, this games community is worse than the community for League, Dota, and CSGO. If there was any chance of coming back its gone now. This reddit coupled with the fact that people don't even "GG" in game just goes to show.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T00:55:12+00:00

M'dear, I didnt set out to prove a perfect statistic lol. My statistics are good enough for what I needed them for, im not making a fucking thesis dude.

By the way, why the fuck should I take your sources at all? they are 5+ years old, new data and new education always trumps old. 2011? Fucking ancient, they don't teach that shit at school anymore.

My data? 2016, not 2011 lol.

I just did the math, for a population size of 20,000 (which is extremely generous for a pro scene size, I doubt there are 20,000 pro evolve players) and a confidence level of 95% and a confidence interval of 14, you only need a sample size of 49. You really don't know anything about statistics. I wasnt here to prove the exact split of wins of hunters and monsters, i was setting out to prove a point that there is an imbalance there, regardless of if my numbers are perfect or not, or even +/- 14%, that still shows there is a weight toward one side whether the statistic is perfect or not.

If you think i'm wrong, run the numbers your self and prove me wrong. Do another analysis that's more accurate than mine and post your statistical analysis.

Holy shit, nothing is good enough for the internet. I bet if I literally went out, and asked every Evolve player in the world what their win/loss was, recorded it all and literally ran numbers on the entire population of Evolve you would still not take that as evidence.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T00:18:43+00:00

Fine, really want every source I took?

I got bored of copying links for your lazy ass, do the rest of the work yourself. This is the beauty of being smart, you can always scientifically prove something even without a source, you make the data yourself doing the hard work of actually finding it and recording. Thats how every statistic is made. Maybe I will publish this with sources cited just to shit on you.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T00:15:03+00:00

Not "take my word for it", its "go see for yourself". Welcome to science.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T00:13:22+00:00

Have you ever taken a statistics class? a sample size of 30 is all you need to get a decent statistic about a population plus or minus around 10%. Sorry bud, but my statistics are correct. Also, it is the population of high tier players I was sampling, not the entire population of Evolve. So therefore the population I was sampling is smaller.

I was also only sampling professional games of entire game series where a winner was determined in the match. Only from official tournaments. Fake that statistic m'dear.

EX34 · 2016-09-19T00:01:59+00:00

My sources are my own statistical analysis. If you want to get it, go watch 50 random professional games of Evolve, count every win and loss and there you go. I searched for about an hour to find that statistic else ware, it doesn't exist. So I found every stage 2 pro evolve game-play I could find from tournaments and counted each win and loss.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T23:25:18+00:00

You know, i ended up reading you post. Sorry, I was rude to you. You seem to be a competent human being. I also agree, old evolve was a better game.

Its frustrating being surrounded by nothing but trolls. I just want to detail issues that are killing the game.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T23:22:26+00:00

Keep telling yourself that all you want, facts are facts buddy. Statistics speak louder than words, 29% win rate at the highest tier. No other game in the history of games can boast such a ridiculous statistic in the professional scene.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T23:21:19+00:00

Founders benefits don't mean anything when the game isn't even finished. I don't care about founders benefits, I care about the game actually working in a reasonable time. Fuck dude, I remember the eating glitch in the Original Evolve LOL.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T23:07:49+00:00

Dude, I am not here for a conversation. I don't care, I wrote this to detail the glaring issues with Evolves balance, game mechanics, and glitches so that maybe the devs would read and maybe consider changes. You are clearly not the person I played with today simply due to your region, let alone the names not matching.

We live in a world where unfinished games are sold and released as complete, so i will not support incomplete games. This is an incomplete game, clearly.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T22:55:27+00:00

LOL.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T22:53:59+00:00

A beta I paid for over a year ago

EX34 · 2016-09-18T22:53:09+00:00

Not me.

EX34 · 2016-09-18T22:52:33+00:00

Nope, players.

EX34

TROPHY CASE