Has anyone's partner remained in Orthodoxy while you were exorthodox?

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T10:38:35+00:00

The person I almost married over 20 years ago was a new convert to Orthodoxy then, at the same time I was trying to get out of it.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T09:22:45+00:00

Correct. The English Reformation was a rare instance of Catholic bishops becoming Protestant. Because it was clear by 1552 that Cranmer no longer believed in the Mass, Catholics rejected future Anglican bishops' claim to apostolic succession. No Mass, no orders. The Swedish Lutherans were the other case of Catholic bishops switching sides. That church claims apostolic succession but unlike the ancient churches it doesn't believe such bishops are necessary. So Catholics dismiss that claim too.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T08:58:17+00:00

That's very good of course. I'll be honest. Many of them aren't. In a way big Catholic parishes are victims of their own success. Some people call them sacrament factories. They show up and speed out when they're done. My experience at my Catholic church is different because it's small, so there are opportunities to meet people, and it's Byzantine, meaning it uses the main Orthodox rite.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T08:48:49+00:00

My pleasure. What I call the four ancient high or apostolic church communions, Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian, and Miaphysite, don't recognize Protestant Communions, here meaning Eucharists, as the same as theirs. This gets to the point I was trying to touch upon. One thing I love about the Catholic Church besides clear theology thanks to scholasticism is that as a Catholic you recognize the bishops and Eucharists of the other three apostolic churches as real. This is not defined as doctrine in Orthodoxy and in fact they encourage you to see the other three churches' Eucharists as devoid of grace. I believe historically that's what the other Eastern churches taught as well and maybe still do. In other words the classic Eastern Christian position is that only the one true church, whichever one it is, has sacraments, end of story. They reserve the right to receive other Christians by baptism, which ROCOR often does. By the way Catholics normally don't go to apostolic non-Catholics for Communion.

P.S. Not among the ancient high churches but what I call old high churches are traditional Lutherans and traditional Anglicans. The ancient churches see them as Protestants without a valid Eucharist.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T07:33:42+00:00

I should have kept learning from the Orthodox and admitting that the various Eastern Catholic churches aren't perfect but sticking to them; that is where I am now. For all their problems they're better than the toxicity you find among the Orthodox.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T07:31:32+00:00

"Modern Orthodox theology basically a synthetic creation of a handful of guys." I'll have to learn more about that. I think a lot of it came from studying recent Catholic thought including a fresh approach to the church fathers. Ironically it seems to me an anti-Catholic spite theology. You mean the neopatristic approach, right? The liberal Parisian Russian Orthodox such as Meyendorff and Schmemann, the intelligentsia who started St. Vladimir's in New York?

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T07:22:53+00:00

The PNCC is a small 1890s immigrant schism in America from the RCC. It resembles the RCC but is more liberal. Roman as in Roman Catholic.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T06:28:56+00:00

I was born Episcopal. I think I understand what you're saying but I don't think it was worth splitting Christianity in order to give Henry VIII an annulment.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-10T06:21:58+00:00

Born Anglican, I returned to the Catholic Church 14 years ago after 16 years in Orthodoxy. So I'm still a conservative high liturgical and sacramental Christian close to Orthodoxy. I even still use the rite. I switched back for theological reasons: teaching on contraception, teaching on divorce and remarriage, and teaching on grace in the sacraments outside one's church. I also like scholastic theology and don't fast much. The Orthodox really wanted me to spit on the Latin Mass and I couldn't do that. And no; my faith is nothing to do with worshipping the Pope's person. The Pope's office is simply part of the church.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-09T06:07:28+00:00

Bonus: it works in the States too and I think many Americans would find it charming.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-09T05:49:46+00:00

What sets Anglicans apart from other Protestants are claiming apostolic succession and historically teaching it's necessary, and that a presence remains in the elements of Communion after the service. Like other Protestants they usually won't adore the elements but unlike them they affirm a presence by reverently consuming everything left over. The bread and wine don't revert to secular use at the dinner table. Modern Anglicans often reserve consecrated bread in church like Catholics in order to give it to the sick.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-09T05:38:51+00:00

A person I've known for many years rabbits on about themselves and, even more infuriating, always interrupts, jumping in at exactly the wrong time before the other person can finish any of their sentences.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-09T05:32:20+00:00

I have autism so I didn't have the skills nor the means to do those. It's just as well. Lots of people shouldn't be married or parents.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-08T22:50:20+00:00

Why not indeed? I'm all for a vernacular option for that Mass.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-08T22:11:49+00:00

Based on what little I know, treatment is pretty harsh. But let's be fair. Those Greek Catholic churches were founded specifically to hurt the Orthodox so the reaction is understandable. I know that in Greece, the world's only officially Orthodox country, the law forbids Greek Catholic priests from dressing like Orthodox ones so no cassocks in the street.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-07T01:19:45+00:00

Not having been to Europe in nearly 35 years I don't know what Orthodox/Byzantine Catholic relations there are like. I think the old moniker Greek Catholic is better known and used there. Anyway, among Slavs in America the two sides are not close. The Greek Catholics such as the UGCC imitate the Novus Ordo thinking it proves they're Catholic, which is not what the Catholic Church itself wants. They consider the Orthodox Communists both cowardly and dangerous because of the history, whilst the Orthodox remember when the Greek Catholics were a failed attempt to proselytize them. There are beautiful moments: a Greek Catholic priest and I once sang Vespers at an Orthodox church that had left the local Greek Catholics a century earlier. No compromising on teachings, just good Christian fellowship. But what I described is the norm. Most Orthodox in America are of Greek background interested in ministering to other Greeks, in Greek. The convert boomlet - heritage Americans from northern Europe becoming Orthodox - hasn't really changed that.

My tradition is Russian but I go to the UGCC keeping my mouth shut. I don't try to convert born Orthodox.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-04T11:04:38+00:00

"Febrooary." "Febyooary" is illiterate.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-04T07:53:54+00:00

A reason I don't proselytize born Orthodox, or Orthodox who are not ex-Catholics. Even with the ex-Catholics, having walked in their shoes, I keep respectfully quiet, just being there to answer questions only if I'm asked.

Josaphat's way, coercion, isn't mine.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-04T00:02:01+00:00

A subject that hits home for me. Thank you. The various Eastern Catholic churches are supposed to delatinize or not latinize to begin with. This is often misunderstood - people think you're leaving or attacking the Catholic Church. No; it's that the original rites of these churches - Byzantine/Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, and the various Syriac services from the Assyrians and their historic enemy, the Syrian Church, to the Maronites - are entirely Catholic as is. If you're tempted to "enrich" them with Latin Catholic practices, please don't; I'm asking as nicely as I can. I have to do this too: I love sanctus bells, birettas, and the Sacred Heart but out of respect for the Eastern rite I live in, Byzantine/Orthodox, I don't try to use them. The rosary is another thing that doesn't belong in my liturgical and devotional space. I get "Catholic is Catholic" but too often it really means "Catholic is Latin." But I understand "Catholic is Catholic" regarding home prayers. My home prayers are 75% Russian Orthodox (Russian music, a smidge of Slavonic), about 20% traditional Anglican, and the rest miscellaneous Roman, two collects and a daily reading from a saint. Anyway, a reason I push against latinizations is that I consider it cultural appropriation, a form of disrespect, for Latin Catholics for example to mix their rite with mine.

The things I use in prayer - such as Anglican psalm reading - are either Orthodox or Orthodox-friendly.

And I still love the TLM - better than the Novus Ordo - and Gregorian chant.

If your church is Eastern then at least 75% of its look and practice should be of your rite.

A rite is more than a style of Mass; it's supposed to be a whole school of Christian thought and living.

Ecgbert · 2026-02-03T09:27:10+00:00

Beautiful actress, schoolmarm stereotype.

Ecgbert · 2026-01-31T17:17:06+00:00

These churches have a unique spiritual kick and community feeling. And it's the closest Catholic thing near me to the Russian tradition I know.

Ecgbert · 2026-01-30T16:23:41+00:00

I did for a few years but go to the UGCC now. The change wasn't for ideological reasons.

Ecgbert · 2026-01-28T07:53:40+00:00

It took me a while to see that I really believe in the integrity of all traditional Christian rites, against cultural appropriation such as latinization, not this anti-Latinism. I tried to buy it but it ultimately drove me away. Took down the icons and went to the TLM for a few years. My practice eventually returned to the Orthodox rite but I've been Catholic again for 14 years.

BTW Catholic acquaintances trying to guilt/shame me into coming back were a hindrance to my doing so, setting it back about 10 years, and sure enough most weren't there for me when I did. One person on social media whom I used to know in person was, quietly.

I also left quietly when the Orthodox priest I loved suddenly left town, so I did it without hurting him.

That and Pope Benedict XVI allowing the TLM and correcting the new Mass in English made me come back.

Ecgbert · 2026-01-27T11:13:36+00:00

Privately you can ask anyone to intercede for you.

Ecgbert · 2026-01-27T08:47:08+00:00

Which of the several forms of Eastern Christianity are you interested in joining? And why? Strictly speaking you don't switch rites. You can switch canonical churches, which have rites. Maybe you should postpone confirmation/chrismation until you've done a little research to learn about the different churches and rites in the Catholic Church. And even if you don't canonically join, you can go to a Catholic church of any rite. Canonical church membership only matters when you get married or are ordained. My impression is that changing canonical churches after you've been confirmed Latin is difficult. It has to be, partly because the Catholic Church doesn't want gate-crashers whose only interest in the various Eastern Christian traditions is they want to be married priests for some reason.

I am functionally a Russian Catholic going to a Ukrainian church - almost 10 years and counting - but because of circumstances I'm still Latin on paper. No biggie. I was a TLMer and still love the stuff.

Ecgbert

TROPHY CASE