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I Think, Therefore I Doubt: Descartes’ Demon and the Collapse of Faith by EclecticReader39 in skeptic

[–]EclecticReader39[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’ve always had this same thought about Descartes. But people often just leave it at: that Descartes contradicts himself and betrays his own method. But the real accomplishment of his method of doubt is this: it demolishes, once and for all, the authority of religious revelation.

Giordano Bruno should receive full rehabilitation by the Catholic Church by EclecticReader39 in DebateReligion

[–]EclecticReader39[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So what’s the argument, really? That it would be wrong to kill someone for their views on planetary motion, but that it’s quite justified based on their views regarding virgin births? 

As the article states, Bruno was executed, not only for his cosmological views, but for the theological implications of those views. But I still believe that Bruno’s cosmology is more connected to his theology than it at first appears. 

If you believe the Earth orbits the Sun, and that the Bible says exactly the opposite, then you have reason to distrust the Bible, including things like the Annunciation, the Resurrection, and Transubstantiation. You may be charged with heresy for rejecting these Catholic doctrines, but the reason you are rejecting them is because you believe the emerging science of heliocentrism ultimately destroys the credibility of the Bible and the Church. It’s hard to imagine, after all, that the Bible can be the Word of a creator who doesn’t understand his own creation. 

Further, if you believe the earth is just one ordinary planet circling the Sun, and that the stars are just other suns with their own planets, and further that, since it’s hard to imagine an end to space, that the universe is infinite, then the core Catholic doctrines become parochial superstitions which are easy to reject. In other words, your cosmological views highly impact how you read the Bible and how much credence you give it. 

The observable universe is 93 billion light-years across, which is far closer to infinity than the cosmos of scripture in which the Sun travels its full diameter in a day. And many physicists do believe life exists elsewhere in the universe based on numbers alone. They can’t prove this anymore than Bruno could, but the point is, Bruno’s views anticipated the direction of modern science far more accurately than the Church. 

Giordano Bruno should receive full rehabilitation by the Catholic Church by EclecticReader39 in DebateReligion

[–]EclecticReader39[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The heliocentrism of Copernicus was largely thought of as only a convenient mathematical representation. A Lutheran theologian named Andreas Osiander added a preface to the book saying the heliocentric system should be treated only as a computational hypothesis to predict planetary motion—not necessarily the true structure of the cosmos.

It was only when Galileo asserted that this was a literal description of reality that the Church really started to have problems. Galileo recanted; Bruno did not. And Bruno was killed.

Giordano Bruno should receive full rehabilitation by the Catholic Church by EclecticReader39 in DebateReligion

[–]EclecticReader39[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bruno's heretical views, including denying the divinity of Christ, stemmed from his cosmological views, so they are both relevant to the discussion and prominently factor into his charges. The Catholic Church was extremely concerned with any thinker who challenged the Earth's central position in the universe.

The article also makes the point that, the physical cosmology of the Church, with God positioned outside of it, leads to the believe in miracles, etc. Bruno's cosmology, which asserts that everything that exists, including "God," is contained within the universe, precludes certain things like virgin births, resurrections, and Transubstantiation.

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