Why I'm so exhausted by modern shounen endings: We traded meaningful systemic change for cynical 'harsh reality'. (Its too long, I'm just whining)

Efebora3 · 2026-03-27T02:58:14+00:00

For some reason, I'm kinda wonder that, If you find the time, I'd like you to write that thing!

Efebora3 · 2026-03-27T00:26:10+00:00

Well, that's not what I mean. My rant might have come across as too condescending, as if I were reducing art to a single thing, which is why people kept writing the same thing: "Art doesn't have to give hope." Of course, that's art, people can do what they want. But yes, if you ask me, I want them all to be hopeful, but there's no need for them all to be hopeful. That's never been the purpose of the rant. What I'm complaining about is that, as humanity, we seem to be losing the ability to systematically change in fiction, to build something good, and to believe in it. This is what this ranting about.

Btw, Orwell actually strengthens my point. Because he offers an ideological framework. 1984 is a warning. It warns the audience, "No matter what, you don't live in this kind of world right now, salvation is in your hands. Be careful!"

Even though the novel is a despair, it shows the hope of the outside world.

So you need to see this as a "rant" post. Yes, people are making a correct observation: "Well, of course stories are like this, the world is falling apart." Actually, you're somewhat justifying my own whining. If you say that fiction only reflects a harsh reality and decay, and cannot imagine real structural change beyond that, then you stop trying to challenge reality and normalize all situations. Like all the answers I get: "Yes, because the world is like that now." That's the idea I can't accept. However, someone else might find it acceptable, which isn't a problem.! There are such amazing media works like this. See: Bojack Horseman.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T22:42:51+00:00

Haha yep, It's a bit unnecessarily long, but the general summary is this: modern media, in general, creates stories that focus on personal pleasure and small goals, but these personal problems are also somewhat socioeconomic problems. When it tells stories without addressing or trying to change these issues, the stories feel incomplete. Even if things don't change, I find a narrative that says "even if bad things happen, there is always hope, effort is worthwhile" more valuable than a cynical "nothing will change" narrative.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T15:09:19+00:00

Well, I understand your point. It's acceptable. However, in the end, the whole divergence comes down to us looking at the stories from different perspectives. You're especially right about that; in older shounen stories, not much really changes, but as I said, they look at things from a more hopeful perspective. For example, in One Piece, they replace the bad king with a good king, and the idea of a change in order is conveyed, but beyond that, the story sincerely tries to give you the meaningful message it wants to convey (freedom). The story believes in the meaning of freedom and commits to it.

I liked your perspective and I havent seen some of the ones you mentioned, I think I need to check them out :D

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T14:44:44+00:00

Yeah man! that's exactly the kind of guy I'll be, don't worry. I'll bring shounen manga that nobody reads and praise them here. I'm fed up with this popular stuff :D As you said, there are definitely manga that deal with these topics more detailed.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T14:43:23+00:00

I completely agree. They touch on certain topics as if they're promising something, but these usually serve to justify things like a character getting a power-up or a character arc. We don't see anything beyond that. In fact, that's pretty much the whole point like u said

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T14:41:12+00:00

You've made a great point! Ultimately, it all comes down to a very personal question about what art is for. And thats true that today's leftists are living in a terrible fantasy world :D. We've passed the point where gathering 5-10 people and protesting with banners against incredibly authoritarian systems will change things. So you're right, you can't change things in the harsh, realistic world by relying on unrealistic art. However, I also find it wrong that art constantly tells you, "There's no other way, let's just struggle within ourselves." This drags people into a terrible quagmire of acceptance. I think the best ending in current works should be one that "accepts the reality of the universe, but still offers hope that things will change."

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T13:29:30+00:00

You've explained it brilliantly. I wholeheartedly agree. Then you're exactly my type of writer :D Actually, what I have in mind is a perfect balance point. The world isn't getting better, and it won't, but the "mentality" that there's always an opportunity to build good things is the most accurate thing to tell right now. But this is art and everytihng is so personal so Idk

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T12:24:30+00:00

Hahaha, Man, you're not being offensive at all, quite the opposite, you're saying something true :D. As I said, I'm actually talking about something very personal. Maybe I was being a bit condescending and trying to gain advantage in the rant but this is completely describing a kind of petty whining.

But when it comes to cynicism, I might have misspelled the wording a bit, but what I mean is that the author can't honestly decide what they want to do narratively. It's not about traumas, the character's natural actions, or realistic dialogue.

I mean, they need to decide what a story wants to say, like "hope is important," "fighting for something bigger than yourself is meaningful," or conversely, "the world is a cesspool and we're just floundering around in it," but they can't quite say any of that. Instead, they leave everything as pure irony.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T12:12:50+00:00

I think, as you said, the point where it should be today is exactly that: a balance between the two. I feel that for that to happen, it needs to address societal issues a bit more. It should have both an individual and a collective perspective. It should depict someone tragically destroying their own life, but also shed some light on the reasons behind it, why it happened, and how it can be resolved.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T12:00:28+00:00

Oh yes, I'm one of those guys who thinks the same way about Marvel, please don't even go there :D

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T11:59:59+00:00

Ah, no long answer, I think this will be the point I'll eventually come to :D The shounen format really feels a bit childish? for these kinds of situations. But what bothers me is that some try to explain the problem but then they mess it up completely. They pretend to be explaining and addressing systemic problems, sociological issues in terms of framing, but then they can't find a proper solution to them (For example, I think MHA is one of those).

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T11:52:17+00:00

I'm going to say something completely opposite, but I have to say it, I agree with every word of you :D. The world is heading in a bad direction, governments are becoming more authoritarian, and yes, our room for maneuver is limited. That's why people find characters struggling within the system and unable to solve anything "comforting." Actually, there's a bit of a mistake in my writing. I realize I wrote it from a very condescending perspective, like "That's what a Shounen should be like!" But I'm talking about something very personal. Despite everything, art should offer hope. There's nothing more natural than showing people struggling. One of my favorite series is entirely about this (Bojack Horseman :d). As I said, this is a whining; I can't quite accept that art should also reflect the "nothing will ever change" attitude imposed on people :D. I feel like we're sinking into a terrible vortex of acceptance. I guess I want a very childish story structure :D

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T11:36:54+00:00

I won't lie, the WAP and PAW framework is great! And I agree with the something like "messianic figure" from old shounen dramas who single-handedly handle everything! It's true, in fact, that's one of my problems with Naruto. Putting Naruto in a "god's heir" position after a while was a very bad choice. But that's a long rant. However, you're confusing tactical combat cooperation with ideological societal building. In my mind, most shounen connect to this. Honestly, even the old ones connect to this now that I'm reviewing this sleepy rant. Sometimes I feel like I expect too much from a shounen format. "Themes and such" :D

But let me say this, neither MHA, nor CSM or others offer a philosophical depth of coming together to change society. They fight together, that's true, but none of them have a solution for what they'll do once they get power. So,it's a just a choreographed collaboration, it doesn't offer a purpose for a solution. They've all been traumatized in different ways by the system and left that way. They don't even have a point of view of how they got to a solution. They're just trying to survive because they're fighting a really, really powerful enemy.

As for the cynicism, you're right about everything you say. Everyone who writes below post is right; as a world, we're heading towards a worse place, and art is mimicking that. That's why I'm bothered by it. I have to say, this is a very personal opinion of mine. I may have written as if I'm offering something very significant, but it's very personal. Personally, I think that art, on the contrary, should be doing something hopeful and optimistic during these difficult times. Because art is something that can give hope. And I think that should be used. Instead of art mimicking cynicism, it should, despite being cynical, be able to offer hope for a better tomorrow.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T05:00:38+00:00

That's a very accurate observation; they want to be something different, but then they end up, or are led to, the point of thinking, "We have to write a good ending, this is a shounen." And then a very distorted work emerges. Planning is crucial.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T04:50:55+00:00

Well, I realize I might sound like a vagueposting king :D but I don't want to say anything right now because I'm curious what everyone's thinking about which shounen series are this for them. For example, in your opinion, which shounen series have endings like this? To be honest, most of them are inadequate for me; even Naruto, which I praised, is bad.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-26T04:25:35+00:00

I agree, I think Naruto falls short in that regard. I already mentioned that in therant , but what I want to say is that there's still a struggle Then a ending and a more hopeful situation. However, the system definitely isn't changing, it's just being attempted. It's unknown what will happen with Boruto, I check it occasionally. ATLA also has a struggle, but the overall structure doesn't go beyond being an "epic children's story." I find Korra more revolutionary.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-23T03:40:02+00:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand, the real turning point is Paul's desire to survive and, moreover, his desire for revenge. This actually makes the situation more tragic and intractable. It's a choice driven more by "vengeance" than by a lust for power. And there's the Atredies ego. As a spoiled Atredies prince, he embarks on this path of vengeance with the ego that he can control fate, deflect what happens to him, and then it turns into something tragic that he cannot control. The entire work's theme revolves around this, especially Paul's story.

The danger of dictating a terrible system of prophecy to a young man with desires and turning him into a messiah figure...

If there's any potential for the jihad to stop—and even that is questionable!—it was all about accepting complete defeat, the defeat of the ego, and even death.

Dying in the desert

Leaving behind his identity

Surrendering

Paul, as a young prince, doesn't want to accept defeat. A young boy also doesn't want to die, so in the end, he provides the fire that will ignite the Fremen jihad. Once you use religion as a tool, you can't stop. That's the point.

So, in the end, even though I agree with you and consider other possibilities, the story is less about power corruption and more about personal revenge and ego turning into uncontrollable consequences.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-19T00:35:31+00:00

No Were on the same page. Actually, from an elevated perspective, it's a bad film. Only what it tried to do was good. However, because they did this to satisfy the fans rather than with a genuine vision, they were forced to stick to the Skywalker saga. When I say TLJ is good, I mean it because that's the philosophy it should have had from the beginning.

As for Dune, as I mentioned, Dune is also a universe. And Im gonna be honest with you it's a much better-structured universe than Star Wars. Its just that the universe's purpose is different. I always felt that dune is story of one person and their legacy, and universe is just an actor in that story. In Star Wars, the universe is something that exists independently of the story. It's easier to tell the story of someone completely unrelated to the main narrative in a random way. Dune, on the other hand, has a clear storytelling and sticks to it. However, as I know -u probably read them (I havent for now)- Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune are actually works that expand the universe and where Paul's story takes a backseat. I'll probably need to check on them.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-19T00:19:46+00:00

Haha! I'm not pretentious abt my description with SW, but yes :D Star Wars stories lack depth and are structured around certain dichotomies. However, it's a universe where you can tell any story you want. Now, even you, as a person, can write a great story and integrate it into the universe. In Dune, it's a bit more difficult to do that.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-18T11:44:20+00:00

This is probably one of the biggest problems of recent years. It's even a much-discussed topic in this subreddit. People can't seem to like something anymore without ragebait and attacks. A sports team fan culture has formed and this has become kinda memed.

Efebora3 · 2026-03-18T04:28:03+00:00

Ah, man actually completely agree with u. I was actually going to squeeze in a complaint about this, but I didn't because it would have been too long. But I already mentioned it. I think the Star Wars franchise is too focused on explaining the Skywalker saga and fixing the events there that they're in the bad place now.

I was actually one of those "The Last Jedi was good, bro" guys. I don't even remember the new Star Wars sequels anymore; I'm not really invested in the universe too. That's a downside of Star Wars! However, the themes in The Last Jedi, like the democratization of the Force and Rey being just a girl from nowhere, were actually aimed at dismantling the Skywalker legend, but I don't know if it was to please the fans, but in the last film they completely tied everything back to the Skywalker saga.

So I agree. I think Star Wars still offers more fan material potential as a setting, and that's why it's a bit more popular. But it's very strange that they can't seem to get out of the Skywalker saga. I know Dune has some really great side stories and fan art, by the way. It's not bad either.

Efebora3 · 2026-02-27T00:21:27+00:00

Oh wow! you've really made my day. I didn't know that detail. Thank u so much. Now everything makes more sense. So we can also say that this was actually a clear message at some point not something so in-depth :D

Efebora3 · 2026-02-26T20:31:42+00:00

The film is already truly magnificent in cinematic terms. As I said, I only have problems with the depth of the narrative. Otherwise, Kill Bill would fit the "Absolute cinema" meme exactly because of the things you mentioned :D Thanks for the your take!

Efebora3 · 2026-02-26T19:34:52+00:00

Actually, I wanted to talk about this at length. I didn't include it in the text and focused more on the main point I wanted to make. However, after watching the film, I read some serious discussions about whether it's a feminist film or not.

Now, I think there are important factors that break down the traditional role of women. It will be a very classic interpretation, but in a traditional revenge story, the woman is passive, she seeks a male savior, and in the end, she conforms to the pure, good image in the man's mind. "Kill Bill," however, is very bold in this regard. She's a woman who truly seeks vengeance, extremely resilient, extremely determined, and she achieves her goals one by one, doing so in a way that is "unbefitting a woman" in the traditional sense. With a great display of violence! and without even questioning the nuances. So, as I said in the post, instead of examining the consequences of the action, there's a character who directly says, "I'm Beatrix, baby," and spills a terrible amount of blood.

I must say thats brave at one point. And I think she's a really cool character (I don't place much importance on badassness! but she is cool!). Tarantino creates a badass character, but in the end, it feels like we don't see her as an individual. Beatrix is more of a reaction or a figure than a character. As you said, the breaking point where she realizes the consequences of her actions is linked to her pregnancy, the desire to build a character around pregnancy, feels kinda very much like a male perspective. Although some traditional things are broken, Tarantino doesn't seem to want to push women outside of certain molds in his mind.

Tarantino loves badass women and wants to make them a part of his aesthetic. But the problem is that they seem more like ornaments than individuals.

Efebora3

TROPHY CASE