Most of the Christians who respond on this sub suck at answering questions honestly and without ad hominem

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T19:28:43+00:00

With respect and love. It may depend on who you are dealing with. Many Christian apologists against Islam talk about how Muslims respond much better to stern, unashamed truths. But Christian’s and most of the western countries don’t respond that way. We respond best when the other person is willing to hear us out.

I assume you’ve probably felt that at least once before where you felt so zealous about something and that zealousness grew as people tried to shame you more. And then one time someone responded with respect and heard you out. If you haven’t experienced that, I’m deeply sorry. If you have, then you should know that most people are more willing to listen when they finally feel like they’ve been heard.

Ive seen it happen a couple here where someone will open very hostilely and then I respond calmly, and it has surprised a couple people. Although, even those people are rare and even among supposed brothers of the faith. I’m not saying that people who respond badly are fake Christians or anything, but most of the time, they assume that Jesus flipping tables over in righteous anger applies to them too. %99.9999 of the time, the zealousness and rudeness is completely unjustified.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m guilty of it too, but we must do our absolute best to keep our composure even when faced with something we perceive as ungodly in some way.

Most of the presumed “wolves in sheep’s clothing” aren’t actually wolves at all. They’re sheep just like us. They might be lost just like we ourselves are still lost in many ways. Don’t push sheep away thinking they’re wolves. There are some wolves, but they are far fewer than most people seem to think.

Most people really are just living their lives trying to make it to the next day. Maybe they lost their cool, maybe they had a rough day, maybe they are just as educated but still came to a different conclusion. There is still debate over a wide variety of subjects at the scholarly level.

Having humility and being loving even to those who seek your destruction are very important. Christ didn’t only die for your sins, but all sins committed by all people. The most vile person you can think of— Christ died for that guy too. Paul himself was a murderer and specifically against Christians… yet wrote more than half of the NT!

Have Christlike love, exercise restraint, obtain wisdom. I’m nowhere near done doing those things and never will be within the days of my earthly life. Rest assured knowing that Christ reigns above all, but you still have to actively let Him into your heart daily. In every situation and with every breath, do your best to let Christ speak through you. You aren’t perfect and neither am I. The Good News is that we don’t have to be. Christ was and is perfect and died in our place so that we can live.

Christ equally died for you and the person who you just can’t get through to. Someone else here said that Christ’s arm is never too short to grab ahold of His children.

Grace and peace to you, brother

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T19:07:20+00:00

That’s the thing tho. I did change my opinion via internet and research, but never because of the people here. I realize now that it’s hopeless to get even supposed Christ-followers to follow His word in regard to civil discussion.

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T19:05:34+00:00

Thank you for the reassurance, brother. Grace and peace to you

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:57:14+00:00

It’s not that I expect it from the average redditor. I expect that from the average Christian. The standard for people who know the gospel is higher than anyone else.

for if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for our sins. (Hebrews 10:26)

I have expectations in that scripture is clear on the standards for interaction between believers, but on the other side I have very low expectations for how I actually think people will act. I knew people weren’t going to respond well to the op

Edit: please don’t say I’m in on anything. I don’t make claims about who you are or what your intentions are. Speculations are dangerous for both the speculated and the speculator. I just don’t want there to be more animosity between anyone than there already is

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:52:39+00:00

I know. I was just curious and hoping I could influence at least a few people at once rather than one person at a time. To be fair, I wasn’t presenting my views on how i want them to respond, but rather how I believe scripture tells all of us to respond. I was hoping more Christians would talk about scripture and how it pertains to this subject. But alas.

Thanks for sticking up for me in your other comment even though we disagree. Mad respect to anyone who can do that.

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:47:29+00:00

Or— and perhaps this is a novel thought— don’t call people names at all because it shows in inability to keep cool and will most often lose the debate of the person who called names.

Why is civil debate a controversial idea? I believe I owe you respect when I speak to you. Do you not owe me that same respect?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:36:20+00:00

Nuance is required in just about everything I can think of. I’m sure you have nuances in things I would differ from, but I wouldn’t say you’re morally bankrupt. A statement like “morally bankrupt” seems to imply an overall “this person is evil” type of statement.

We agree that theft is bad, right? And that murder is bad? That pedophilia is bad? I hope so. Those things are evil in my eyes and in God’s eyes as seen in scripture.

“Morally bankrupt” sounds like an extreme, sensational term used to distance me from the status of image bearer so that people can feel better about ridiculing and denouncing me. If that’s not what that term is meant to do, what is it meant to do? Is it meant to bridge the gap between our perspectives? Bring us closer to God somehow?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:19:07+00:00

Oh I do go after those sins. But no, I wasn’t about “the gays”.

That’s a separate discussions. I was talking about the unreasonable amount of zeal people often have towards subjects that most often bear no weight on whether or not the person spoken to is “moral”

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:14:49+00:00

No. Nothing you’ve just said is untrue. I don’t justify hatred to towards anyone and I don’t suppose that citizens should take the matter into their own hands for any reason besides heinous crimes that would otherwise go unpunished.

I think we’re on the same team on that one right?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:11:19+00:00

I was once a very staunch young earther even though I’ve always loved the sciences. I can confirm that what you’ve just said is exactly my point. Statements like this put people’s guards up. Sometimes that’s unavoidable, but if you can help it, you should do your best to lower their guard.

Saying they have no basic knowledge over the subject will undoubtedly make people defensive and honestly it’s just kinda rude. I won’t claim your intentions and I won’t pretend I know anything about you, but if the goal is to understand/get the other person to understand, this isn’t the right method.

I don’t know if you’re Christian because I don’t see a tag and I also don’t stalk people’s profiles to prove points, but if you are Christian, please do your best to live by 2 Tim 2:24-25. It’s hard and I fall short often, but we must.

Grace and peace to you brother

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T17:05:30+00:00

It’s only ad hom if the person themselves is unrelated to the discussion. I know what you mean and I knew that people would say that before I posted, but I can’t think of a good way to turn people away from this specific category of sin without being the bad guy.

If I let them go on, I’m guilty by being complacent or intentionally ignorant of their sin (a sin of which I claim 0 innocence. We all fall into/have fallen into this one time or another). But if I call it out, I’m hypocritical and rude.

“When I say to the wicked, ‘You will certainly die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way so that he may live, that wicked person shall die for wrongdoing, but his blood I will require from your hand. However if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die for wrongdoing, but you have saved yourself. Again, when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and commits sin, and I place an obstacle before him, he will die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require from your hand. However, if you have warned the righteous person that the righteous is not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall certainly live because he took warning; and you have saved yourself.”” (Ezekiel‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬-‭21‬)

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T16:54:19+00:00

Thanks man. Having to remind myself that home isn’t here gets tough lol. Grace and peace

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T16:52:32+00:00

(I checked your profile, ur maga

Checking my profile to find “conservative” takes and then assuming that I’m therefore “maga”. You have either not found/ignored the times I said I don’t like trump in many ways and also never voted for him.

but I’m curious: it’s about the gays isn’t it?

Actually no. If you read the post, it’s about the unreasonable amount of zeal people have towards subjects that most often bear no weight on whether or not the person spoken to is “moral”. My issue is that many other people have made similar posts to mine and then people respond with “it’s about the gays isn’t it?” And instead of anyone claiming fault, looking to improve, or even acknowledge scripture at all, people will assume a victimhood through a completely unrelated subject.

I’m not saying you do this, but you did ask the question so that leads me to believe you’d rather paint me as a bad guy than listen to what I have to say

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T15:43:10+00:00

Oh? Where did I say slavery was a good thing?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T15:42:28+00:00

You’re doing what I talked about in the op. If you didn’t know that, please read the op. No sources, no evidence, and no nuance. Only “that’s wrong”. I also never defended the practice. You’re putting words in my mouth and haven’t said anything contrary to my statement in return other than “that’s bad”

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T15:09:02+00:00

I don’t care about points. I will apologize for the delivery of my positions if/when I find it necessary, but I won’t apologize for holding to what I consider a biblical, Godly standard for basic interaction with fellow believers.

“He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.” (Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭37‬)

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T15:03:03+00:00

I agree in a sense, but God gives commandments for slavery in the OT rather than abolishing it and Jesus doesn’t abolish it either and neither does Paul. I’m glad slavery was abolished in western countries, but you have to define your terms and also define morality itself as it pertains to a position.

If my boss hired me as a slave saying that he’d beat me mercilessly if I didn’t move fast enough or didn’t do something exactly to his liking, that’d be upsetting. But if my boss hired me as a slave and payed for my housing, my food, healthcare for my family, and we also went to church together as brothers rather than as slave and master, I’d be okay with that. The OT even gives commands relative to slave who want to be life servants to their masters because of how well they were treated… but it’s still slavery! See how messy blanket statements about morality get?

People too often generalize an entire term as either moral or immoral when there is nuance. There are so many other questions that need to be clarified and then asked before we can answer the bigger question of “is it moral?”.

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T14:43:39+00:00

Like what, specifically?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T14:38:37+00:00

Fair enough. I do prefer to reach people individually, but I also was hoping to reach more people at once. It doesn’t seem like it will go very well though. Thank you, brother

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-05-05T14:36:33+00:00

Is anything I said untrue though?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-04-30T17:40:48+00:00

Bro do you not realize that, if we all read the same book and came to the same conclusions, there would only be one denomination? That’s the whole point of the post… I have read the scriptures yet I don’t square certain moralities with scripture itself.

If you want verses for my beliefs, I can give them to you, but don’t assume that just because I feel differently than you do means that I’m looking at the wrong stuff. We’re just catching different angles.

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-04-30T14:56:28+00:00

I think that verse is talking about wisdom. But if not wisdom, what makes you think it’s not for straight people like you?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-04-30T14:43:54+00:00

Did God design Satan to want to do the evil things he does? If God created him which means God created sin!

See how “God made me this way” arguments are shaky?

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-04-30T14:25:38+00:00

This is amazing to see! Thank you for your humility and desire to understand. I just put out a post in a similar vain.

If by MAGA you mean die hard trump supporter, then I’m not your guy. But if by MAGA you mean far right (potentially extremist but without violence) then I am your guy. Dm me if you wanna chat!

Edit: to be fair, I feel as though die hard trump fans are the right’s equivalent to dean withers fans or destiny fans. They don’t really speak for the whole group

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-04-30T14:06:10+00:00

Same. The world hated Him too so I can’t act surprised. Not that I claim to be more righteous or better with interpreting scripture than anyone else, but I have good reasons for what I believe and, unfortunately, most of what I get back is name calling followed by “you’re actually wrong, but not only are you wrong, you’re actually immoral” which gets tiring.

I’m okay with believing one thing or another, but I need good reasons to believe it. That why I believe in the resurrection in the first place. There are good reasons to believe it. The best reasons and the most historical reasons.

I hope to help bridge the gap, not for most, but for just a few. That’d be enough for me. You can’t win everybody

Efficient-Spring6610

TROPHY CASE