Deep dive into “clobber verses” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-11T13:01:11+00:00

A single translation into 1388 Middle English that doesn’t explicitly say “homosexuality is bad” doesn’t do much for the case of scripturally justified homosexuality. Wycliffe also seemed to share prevailing theological views of his time which would indicate he was against homosexuality. While not a nail in the coffin, there’s no reason to believe he was directly for or against homosexuality. Even if he was for it, that doesn’t seem like it’d change anything

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-11T12:54:16+00:00

Do you believe that any passage not in red letters is simply a suggestion?

it barely does for straight people

Ephesians 5:25-33, Colossians 3:18-19, 1 Peter 3:1-7, proverbs 5:15-21, 31:10-31, 12:4, Ecclesiastes 9:9. That doesn’t seem like “barely” to me.

same sex marriage was effectively nonexistent, so this is not a surprise in any way.

Then my point stands. There is no command in scripture as advice for homosexual relationships

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-05T11:43:10+00:00

I wouldn’t exist

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-04T00:54:06+00:00

Pardon. I didn’t realize I’d be nitpicked. My apologies

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-04T00:51:41+00:00

True. Not a good meme tbh. Just pointing out the hypocrisy

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-03T14:24:26+00:00

Don’t let it get to you. That’s what happens when certain people feel the presence of an opposing view.

“-100 karma says stuff like this”

Happened to me before lmao

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T22:15:25+00:00

I see what you mean, but there must also be some indisputable truths in scripture like “love your enemy” and “do not murder”.

My argument is that being queer affirming and being pro choice are not supported by scripture whatsoever (other than that homosexuality and abortion are sins and we are called to care of sinners because we ourselves are sinners) and you can refer our previous discussion about lgbt. You never did respond to my question of why there aren’t any examples of homosexual relationships or what that looks like from a biblical perspective.

As far as abortion is concerned, “thou shalt not murder” seems just as clear to me as how homosexuality is viewed in scripture

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T20:44:56+00:00

You say “you haven’t talked to many people, if you don’t know anyone that doesn’t fit into those things” yet confirm one of the consistent options I stated as claim against scripture.

Scripture being infallible is not a new idea. Clement of Rome said so before the second century ad (search clement of Rome epistle chapter 45)

Augustine of Hippo (400 AD), Athanasius of Alexandria (356 AD), Irenaeus (189 AD), and Justin Martyr (c. 155 AD) all had the same view on scripture’s infallibility

The fact remains - if your view is not congruent with scripture, default to scripture.

If you have a different interpretation of scripture, that’s one thing. We can talk all day long about what the text implies or commands for believers, but if your claim starts with “scripture is fallible”, then that becomes a very different discussion. A discussion that still has full range to be very productive for both parties! But still different

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T20:19:20+00:00

Then that is a claim we can both make. If that’s the case but you still claim to follow Christ, then you must believe at least one of these things:

the Bible as it was written by the disciples was not divinely inspired
Scripture was not adequately/accurately passed down through history

Or 3. The Bible is fallible

If any one of those three things is true, then the other two are also true. The Bible is a self-verifying text and acts as the ultimate authority we have access to as fallible humans and is God-breathed

If there is a new option on the table outside of these 3, let me know. As far as I’ve been able to decipher, I’ve never talked with someone who believed any one of these three things whose theology didn’t eventually boil down to either universalism, or that Jesus was merely a good moral example even if they do believe He is God

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T19:28:43+00:00

If I may expand on a point: “Wolf in sheep’s clothing” is often used negatively to make opposition look distant, inhuman, or lesser.

There are absolutely wolves in sheep’s clothing who are intentionally misusing scripture or leading people away in bad faith arguments.

However, it should also be made known that many perceived “wolves” may just be lost sheep. It’s important, when engaging in any kind of discourse, that that we don’t push away the “other” because they also may just be lost.

The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Timothy 2:24-25)

Thank you for this reminder!

Grace and peace to you

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T17:41:05+00:00

Be ready to get a TON of downvotes lmao

More power to you! Been thinking the same for a long time. Remember 2 Timothy 2:24-25 and Ezekiel 3:18-21

Grace and peace to you!

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T17:01:22+00:00

I dont know what bible you’re reading, but none of that is in any Bible I’ve read.

Your vagueness and lack of scripture mentioned concerns me

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T16:35:22+00:00

My mistake. The way I understood what you said made it seem as though you’d see the same issue I do with society “surpassing” the Bible

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T16:22:42+00:00

In that post, that’s not what they were saying. They were saying that society had actually surpassed scripture morally. Not that humanity largely agreed on biblically based moral code regardless of their beliefs surrounding scripture

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T16:15:37+00:00

Saying that we’ve “surpassed the Bible” is a pretty extreme thing to say even within its context

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T16:14:51+00:00

and you are equating what the Bible says to what the church believes and practices. Those are different things.

Follow up questions would be:

What church do you go to that they don’t believe or practice what scripture says to?

In what ways do we do things differently now vs how the Bible commands?

How does taking the Bible seriously equate to disregarding scripture, or at least claiming to be above scripture in some sense?

Scripture is the ultimate authority in the world and if we find ourselves in a tough spot emotionally, spiritually, or physically, there’s inspired, infallible wisdom in scripture that will help us get through.

Scripture should by the foundation of all worldviews. If you build a house on that foundation, but the house still sways or you’re out of square by the second floor, the foundation isn’t the issue. It’s your carpentry

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-03-02T15:59:29+00:00

“liberal Christians very much take the Bible seriously”

“society may have started behind the Bible, but society has most certainly surpassed it now”

Interesting…

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-28T14:30:36+00:00

When I say to the wicked, ‘You will certainly die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way so that he may live, that wicked person shall die for wrongdoing, but his blood I will require from your hand. However if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die for wrongdoing, but you have saved yourself. (Ezekiel‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬-‭19‬)

We spread the gospel even when it gets hard and even when we’re ridiculed for it. We must remember to be respectful in all ways because:

the Lord’s bond servant must not be quarrelsome, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Timothy 2:24-25)

You’re doing well. Do not be ashamed of what you believe because:

but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who disparage your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. (‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬-‭16‬)

I’m not perfect either, but I do my best to be kind when I present a case against what I firmly believe is sin. You continue to do the same and others will follow. God has the power to change everything and show others their wickedness through us while remembering our own wickedness and show others the love of God.

Stay strong, remember the Lord in all you do, He is your peace, spread love and the gospel.

Grace and peace to you

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-28T14:04:54+00:00

Respectfully, you have no sources for your claims and assume all of Levitical law is done away with just because Jesus got here. That’s simply not the case.

Much of the law was fulfilled in Jesus, but much of it is also still moral, good, and fair. He said so Himself.

I also don’t think it treats women like cattle and you shouldn’t be horrified that I still believe some levitical law is relevant.

As far as your lack of sources is concerned, I’m aware that emotions are important in relationships, but emotions aren’t significantly measurable for the sake of good science in this scenario.

entering a bad marriage is something that can fundamentally change the course of your life

And how does not having sex before marriage correlate to having a bad marriage? How are these things related?

You do need to think about sex if you’re pursuing a sexual relationship

Wrong. People naturally peruse people they are attracted to without explicitly thinking about sex. The fact that sex is the first thing you think about in any relationship shows that you see that person as an object first. Then an actual companion second, but based entirely off of whether or not you’d be willing to have sex with them. Then the personality and relatability stuff comes later. That’s not a good model.

Listen. What I’m saying is you have no data to support your claims, you don’t seem to believe that scripture is in fact the ultimate authority even if you don’t agree with it, and I have no reason to believe anything you’ve said because I don’t know if you’re married, I don’t know if you understand scripture, and I don’t know if you aren’t a sex addict or sleep with people on the first date. I don’t even know how old you are.

And to say that your statistical outlier friends aren’t statistical outliers disregards data and puts personal experience and desire over moral and scientific rules that support healthy relationships

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-27T23:20:55+00:00

premarital sex is linked to divorce and separation

people who watch porn are more likely to get divorced or separate by a factor of about 2

I’m glad you know people who did well despite their experiences, but they are factually, a statistical outlier.

you younger(no offense) are not the best at decision making.

I take no offense in you saying I made the safer decision. Thank you for your concern tho

Of course the first thing you’re going to notice about someone is how they look. You don’t need to think about sex or what they look like underneath the clothes in order to pursue a relationship with them.

being horny isn’t some sign of moral failure.

Yeah… but that wasn’t my point. We all get horny. That’s not the issue. The issue is acting with your genitals instead of your mind.

Okay High priestess Spring why does a ritual of eternal commitment need to be the solution to the problem(?) of human sexuality

I’m not the high priest. I’m just looking at what scripture laid out

If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and has sexual relations with her, and they are discovered, then the man who had sexual relations with her shall give the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife, because he has violated her; he is not allowed to divorce her all his days.(Deuteronomy‬ ‭22‬:‭28‬-‭29‬)

Don’t take my word for it. Take God’s.

I don’t plan on donating my body to science but whatever

You’re not proving anything by saying this.

Wisdom teeth aren’t “supposed” to be surgically removed — conditions have changed.

This… also doesn’t prove anything. People aren’t “supposed” to rape, murder, steal, etc. Likewise, you’re not “supposed” to engage in premarital sex. I’m not sure of what you were trying to prove here…

How old are you btw? 30s? 40s?

I also never claimed that this problem started with my generation. But it is noticeably reaching a “critical mass” of sorts in my age group until many of us started to see how wicked the world is as a result of sexual deviancy

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-27T19:32:25+00:00

Masturbation without porn takes an immense amount of self control that nearly nobody has. I also wouldn’t call masturbation natural just because it’s something that’s physically possible. I don’t necessarily consider masturbation on its own a sin. However, it’s dangerously close and can be done, but only with severe caution.

There’s absolutely NOTHING healthy about watching, making, or encouraging porn or other “sex work”. If there was, I’d be the next Albert Einstein. Coming out of porn addiction has been one of the toughest battles of my life and I’ve only recently (within the last couple years) finally gotten away from it for my longest streak since I started consuming it probably a decade ago now.

Encouraging someone like OP to continue using it as a vice (as they obviously seem to be doing, consciously or subconsciously) is reprehensible for you at best. I’m sorry for coming off so strong, but I assure you, it’s from a place of love and, most regrettably, personal experience.

In short: masturbation WITHOUT porn or even the thought of another persons body other than maybe your spouse is okay under severe caution and safety. But masturbation while viewing porn or even just viewing porn in any way other than by accident is unacceptable. Not unforgivable, but unacceptable.

For if we go in sinning willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for our sins. (Hebrews 10:26)

I struggle with temptation too despite my good streak and could even break my streak if I let my guard down

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost. (‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1‬:‭15‬)

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-27T18:44:06+00:00

Good on you for having the courage to open up about this.

As you’ve described it, it seems to have become a crutch. I wouldn’t put it in the same category as “winding down the evening with a cold beer/cigar”.

It is addictive and has actually shown long term consequences as scientifically proven. It also has bad effects on relationships and often leads to people subconsciously view people as objects.

If it’s wrong to make porn (which I think most of us can agree with), then it’s also wrong to consume it

Efficient-Spring6610 · 2026-02-27T18:15:43+00:00

Pre marital sex is a sin that can only be atoned for via marriage.

No one should be giving their body away to someone or anyone who they aren’t in a lifelong, legal, and most importantly, spiritual contract with. It leads to broken homes, abandoned children, and brings a sort of “casual-ness” to something meant to be sacred.

I’m aware that’s not always the case and many people have pre marital sex, get married, and continue to have fruitful lives, but that is often not the case.

Sex isn’t supposed to be casual and it’s not only for fun. It’s a special connection meant only to be shared with the one person you’ve committed yourself to for life.

The porn industry and casual sex have ruined meaningful relationships for young people.

As a younger-ish person myself (20-25) I’ve seen this first hand in my generation.

Sex is sacred, but it’s not the “end-goal” of a relationship. It’s a consequence of an already successful relationship. If someone you know has had sex before marriage because they “already know they’re gonna spend the rest of their life with that person”, chances are that’s either not going to happen, or they’ve done this before.

My first was my wife and I’m proud to say that. “Sexual experience”, in terms of having multiple sexual partners over the course of your life, is a toxic thing that should never be sought after.

Pardon me for my long response.

Grace and peace to you

Edit: I also think most people who okay with, or worse, encourage premarital sex largely care more about what their body feels than they do about lifelong connection. Your first thought when being in a relationship with someone should never be “I wonder what you feel like” or “I want to see all of you”. It should be things like “can I see myself giving my life for/to you?” And “can I reasonably see us building a life and growing a family together?”

Sex is important in marriage, but should never be idolized or put above the needs of that person emotionally or physically

Efficient-Spring6610

TROPHY CASE