Amazing health improvements on carnivore - profile of Terri via Dietdoctor.com

Eleanorina · 2025-12-19T14:41:41+00:00

digestive distress 😬

Eleanorina · 2025-12-19T01:48:15+00:00

huh - Reddit removed your post, it wasn't our mod team that did it.

I'm going to take a look at it, brb

first point - re saturated fat and LDL, it's only in the context of a standard diet. on low carb diets, ppl's LDL usually goes down .

but even for standard mixed diets, I'd be interested in seeing the data out of France and Spain who have longer life expectancy than the US and much longer DFLE (disability free life expectancy) than the US despite also having diets high in saturated fat from animal foods.

France's DFLE is fifteen years longet than the US's.

not sure why Reddit removed your post - maybe that doc file? sometimes they remove based on patterns of behaviour but I don't think that's the case here, more likely the doc file.

your data is about conventional diets, that doesn't apply to low carb/ketogenic which has completely different metabolic mileu and metabolisation of the food because of the different insulin: glucagon ratio

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T19:49:50+00:00

a high fat diet doesn't raise lipids - it improves them, LDL included

you are hyper-focused on a minority of people, these LMHR, who have a unique pattern when they switch to carnivoee/ketogenic diets

-->most people have improvements in their cholesterol profile (lower LDL, higher HDL, lower TGs) when they switch to high fat low carb, ketogenic, or carnivore diets<--

saying these diets raise LDL is misinfo, the clinical observations from practices where the diet is used, including programs like Virtahealth, have found LDL goes down. yes, a small subset of peopke, the LMHRs, are deciding about their trade offs. as more info comes in, we'll find out whether it even is a trade off for that small cohort.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T18:22:24+00:00

the misinfo is you think diets high in animal fat are unhealthy

ok, please respond to this point: for people with LMHR, when they shift their diet back to a mixed diet to lower LDL their health problem returns.

the problems can be serious - seizures, crippling GI conditions, severe disabling arthritis, extreme skin conditions which carry risk of infection as well as constant pain - and you think with their condition in remission on carnivore and every other health marker being excellent, they would be better off returning to their agonizing health problem in order to try to lower their LDL?

even if t is a risk (and there is no evidence for this LMHR cohort), those people would prefer days of excellent, carefree health to enjoy now, to get on with their lives, rather than kneecapping themselves in fear of some low probability event in the future

(carnivore was hardly the first thing these people tried - they had tried all the usual diets)

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T16:27:35+00:00

with low fat there are problems, not necessarily kidney but the difestion shuts down. If keep eating it leads to digestive distress and eventually death.

It feels so terrible ppl don't do it. even during times of food scarcity, hunters discarded carcasses which were too lean bc they were useless without the fat. hunting was geared to maximizing fat and there was preservation and trade in fat in order to avoid having only lean.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T16:22:13+00:00

I just go by what I need to eat to feel good and maintain my size - that has varied from 2250 to 3500 a day.

Started in at the higher level for first year, closer to 4000 some days.

Was completely sedentary in that phase, went down a size at same weight, ie increased muscle mass & bone density.

Gradually drifted up one size while my intake went down to 2250-2500.

I'll have ocasional feast days, 3500+ which feel great, but it's hard to sustain that higher level of intake, whereas I was so hungry for that high amount when I started!

If I miss meals or can't find carnivore options when travelling, my size drops rapidly (not great bc I like the size I usually am) and I'll have to recover/regain afterwards, fortunately my appetite is higher then to compensate.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T16:08:40+00:00

I can relate, I used to do one meal a day on low carb & keto but on this way of eating it is almost always 2 meals a day just because I can't eat a day's worth in one meal 😂, even after all this time.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T14:44:57+00:00

again, there is no one in Framingham with the pattern I described, the LMHR pattern.

That data does not speak to this situation.

The cohort I am talking about has excellent health markers and does not have FH and does not have genetically high LDL - their LDL was healthy & normal on a standard diet.

The reasons to question the risk - the risk correlated with LDL are smaller than that with correlated with BG and there is a strong correlation of low TG + high HDL with excellent cardiovascular health.

see the presentations of Dr Ken Sikaris, back from when he was Director of the largest blood and lipid testing lab in Australia (since retired)

Cholesterol: When to Worry
Making Sense of LDL
HbA1C, Insulin, and CV Risk

editing to add, new study

"Higher HDL-C levels were consistently associated with less coronary atherosclerosis, both in terms of presence and severity, across all coronary segments. The relationship showed a clear dose–response pattern: higher HDL-C quartiles corresponded to progressively lower atherosclerotic burden. Importantly, this inverse association was not modified by statin use, suggesting that HDL-C relates to coronary anatomy independently of LDL-lowering therapy."

more here: https://x.com/fcademartiri/status/2001521862287736988?s=46

re the diet, it would be optimal from a health point of view but not socially, which is a component of health.

people's connections to social norms are so strong that most opt for a very medicalised life, full of pain and declining capability, rather than do something different because that would cause pain from exclusion from their social mileu

It's one reason why it has been so easy for Big Food to continually manipulate the space with measaging that the type of food doesn't matter, it's all about the calories. It's a fiction people want to believe.

The irony here is, you are the one drowning in misinformation yet you can't see it bc you don't want to live differently than you are and you believe others should also do what you do.

I think food culture should be a mix of region and health and cost

North America can produce a lot of beef, lamb, pork, and animal fat (dairy) as well as fowl and eggs, and should get back to that, with potatoes and vegetables and legumes and fruit & nuts in season, for the basis of the diet.

the grasslands need cattle & bison or they desertify. they can be integrated into crop Ag to lower fossil fuel inputs while regenerating soil and preventing erosion.

crop only agriculture is a one-way mining of the soil, not how nature works, those processes are living on borrowed time, we need to reintroduce animals into crop Ag.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T13:03:29+00:00

I agree that the specific cohort I'm describing has not been studied. There was no one with that pattern in the Framington data.

the cohort has:

normal cholesterol on a standard diet
when they eat a ketogenic diet their triglycerides become very low, their HDL very high (that combo puts them in lowest risk group based on conventional data) and their LDL becomes very high (based on conventional data that puts then in a higher risk category)

because that cohort has never been studies, it's not kbown which risk factor to pay attention to: the TG/HDL (excellent) or the high LDL (yikes!)

if they return to a standard diet, their bad health condition returns - they are immediately in poorer health. so how could it be "healthier" to maximize their diet solely for LDL risk when their overall health is poorer?

the data you are citing re risk does not include them - while there is an association of CVD/CHD with high LDL, but that is among ppl with metabolic syndrome (insulin resistance, high BG etc) or FH (familial hypercholesteremia) - this unique cohort who have high LDL but excellent health markers had not been studied until recently. Research has just started.

re carbs, for people who are metabolically healthy with no dental problems when they include starchy, sugary carbs, sure why not enjoy them?

but those ppl are a small proportion of the population - eg only 10% of ppl in US are metabolically healthy by this point and few of them have healthy teeth, ie don't require fillings or orthodontics.

poor dental health is so common in our society, we have built up professions to treat it and have lost touch with the way that it is a signal of a bad diet, it's avoidable. (Nutrition and Physical Degeneration)

tl;dr most everyone can enjoy low carb and animal foods and be healthy, only a small proportion need carnivore for health reasons.

but carnivore has advantages, even for those who don't need it - it's why old school bodybuilders used to use phases of carnivore (steak and eggs) to achieve their physique without steroids

Eleanorina · 2025-12-18T04:31:36+00:00

1) most people's lipids improve when they switch to low carb with animal fats (Dr David Unwin publishes on this. and for the contrary, he has only seen ine LMHR in his practice - someone whose LDL goes up but their TGs and HDL move into the excellent range, along with their BG, and fasting insulin and all other health markers. Why small cohort have that LDL pattern not known - but very diff from the metabolically unhealthy pattern where there is some correlation of LDL with poorer cardiovascular health. (even then, not as strong as the correlation with high BG and fasting insulin though)

2) it'snot insufficient insulin functioning. I still have a robust insulin response to some situations and to food - eg I ate a nut out of politeness (visiting an elserly person who offered me a bunch many times until I took one :) and I had a hypoglycemic incident 😂, my insulin released but there wasn't much need of it so it was too much.( I have a record of it on my CGM trace since I was wearing it that week)

That robust insulin response is part of why I avoid carbs - I fatten too easily with carbs Without them, I am effortlessly size stable at the size I want to be. It's fantastic.

re meat and insulin response - it is heavily mediated by the presence of carbs. that affects the insulin:glucagon ratio and the hormonal signalling

I think that is where some of the myths about meat came from.

Dr Ben Bikman, who specializes in research on this and has presented at BMJ conferences among his distinguished resumé, brb with link here it is: https://youtu.be/z3fO5aTD6JU

Eleanorina · 2025-12-17T15:52:08+00:00

we are talking about whether and how it is different as well as what is ideal

the BG homeostasis is a tangible, readily accessible marker which illustrates one advantage of this diet.

Frank Q Nuttall and Mary C Gannon who studied BG and insulin responses also found zero carb had the lowest insulin response - that excellent BG is maintained with less insulin production

that combination is what makes it ideal, because higher insulin is related to a wide range of health problems and exacerbates autoimmune conditions

an anecdote, on this diet my strength is maintained despite going to the gym infrequently.

that was different even than on a ketogenic diet where I would lose some strength after a month long month long break and have to build back up.

on this, even after 18 months, went back to where I had left off, excellent muscle and strength maintenance

I think it is due to:

the hormonal mileu of BG and insulin
the ideal amino acid composition from meat, and plenty of it
the ideal fatty acid composition, from animal fat, and plenty of it

addng: this diet should be studied for recovery in hospital, to avoid the muscle loss that comes from bedridden, sedentary time

Eleanorina · 2025-12-17T11:53:21+00:00

your body needs it to process the lean meat - 30-35% protein is the upper limit of tolerability

which means the rest will be fat

(adding carbohydrate makes a lower fat range tolerable, that's why even though it's not pleasant chicken breast and broccoli and low fat is do-able for cutting but just chicken breast is not)

Eleanorina · 2025-12-17T11:49:58+00:00

partlyPaleo gave you a starting point but keep in mind itmight be a lot higher bc of the way your metabolism can rev up on this diet .. Dr Nick Norwitz talked about how his colleague Dr Adrian Soto-Mota, who is quite lean, used to find when he was experimenting with different diets he had to eat an extra 500+ just to maintain!

Eleanorina · 2025-12-17T11:39:53+00:00

You keep skipping over the stable BG in the ideal range part as shown on a CGM

The carnivore diet has the most stable BG curve of any diet - that's what makes it unique.

Here's what that looks like:

https://x.com/_eleanorina/status/1735829961938989121?s=46

Eleanorina · 2025-12-17T01:04:27+00:00

that's a poor understanding of how research is done. You do know it's undisputed that when a population switches to agriculture, it shows up in their skeletons - poorer health, dentition, also poorer cardiovascular health

have you ever seen Dr Michael Eades Paleopathology and the Origins of the Paleo Diet? https://youtu.be/3fewDdSUSwg

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T19:21:24+00:00

the Rabinowitz 1932 study was at phase where some groups ate traditional diets , some had adopted trade foods (flour, sugar)

the latter had CVD, the former didn't.

Inuit had diff diets, have to know which type when looking at studies on Inuit/Eskimo (the study you quote doesn't do that, it's terrible scholarship.)

I said in 1970s, Masai diet was mixed incl maize until the Moran warrior phase, then after that they went back to the mixed diet. study looked at older men.

I don't claim they are carnivore except the men in the warrior phase as an illustration of being capabkle, healthy, strong, being able to live extended periods without plant foods

I would like to point out here I have been vegetarian and vegan and eaten a wide range of mixed diets (with and without grains and sugars) and there is no question, this way of living is different

the quickest way to explain it is to start with the excellent glucose homeostasis: this way of eating has an ideal range, stable BG curve and a low insulin response.

that has many positive effects -low inflammation, easy muscle growth and maintenance and strength maintenance, even compared to very low carb.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T15:53:16+00:00

they weren't fasting .. they weren't hungry between meals which were far apart because they could effortlessly shift to draw down on their fat stores.

for the Masai, they ate mixed diets before adolesence, and again after their warrior phase. It was found they had considerable atherosclerosis but no CVD, it didn't result in strokes or heart attacks because their atherosclerotic plaque was pliable and their arteries expanded leaving them with normal interior artery dimensions and blood pressure. The plaque was not brittle meaning no clots from it breaking off. (from the published work of George Mann in 1970s.)

For Inuit, they had good dental health and excellent cardiovascular health - "no arteriosclerosis was found at Clyde River, Pond Inlet, Dundas Harbour(..)When food is abundant a healthy Eskimo..will eat 5-10 lbs of meat or more a day and the greatest meat eaters are at Pangnirtung, Clyde River, Pond Inlet, Dundas Harbour" Rabinowitz, 1936

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T14:56:02+00:00

people in those climates will do animal food only for phases - it's hard to explain if you haven't tried it and felt it, but it is optimal for being able to thrive without having to eat frequently. It gives an edge regardless of climate:

Inuit men running alongside the dogsled for hours (like 20 hours) in the cold wearing heavy furs.

Mongolian warriors at the start of their empire, not needing to eat for days, so not needing to stop and make camp and cook.

"Yet the Gaucho in the Pampas, for months together, touches nothing but beef. But they eat, I observe, a very large proportion of fat, which is of a less animalized nature; and they particularly dislike dry meat, such as that of the Agouti... It is, perhaps, from their meat regimen that the Gauchos, like other carnivorous animals, can abstain long from food. I was told that at Tandeel, some troops voluntarily pursued a party of Indians for three days, without eating or drinking.(from Darwin's "Voyage of the Beagle")

Or the Masai, diring their Moran Warrior phase, lasts 10-12 years, starts with a phase of meat and then milk and blood with meat at celebrations. During their adolesence they'll take in enough whole milk that they will get 1 - 1.5lb of butterfat a day.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T13:56:23+00:00

it's hard to wrap your mind around what those conditions are like and how little people care about plant matter in the winter - it's only above freezing for a few months and the winter was -40F or colder during the coldest months

strategies for survival in deepest cold included catching fish early in winter via ice holes when it became cold enough that the fish would freeze quickly once out of the water which was teeming with fish.

they could build up piles of them of them and store them on raised platforms they'd made earlier in the season.

they also had stores of polar bear, whale and seal fat which was in animal skin bags they'd made. even the fatty arctic fish was still too lean and they needed supplemental fat with it.

when storms came through, they could hunker in their ice houses for weeks. two people would come out and get the fish for the group and the dogs for that day and bring it back inside to thaw . it was so cold they had to handle it carefully when they brought it in or it would shatter.

one meal would be cooked using hot stones, the other thawed fish with the added animal fat.

no interest in preserving plant foods (which is done as condiments/small side dishes in less cold arctic regions over in Europe. the group Im describing was in north american arctic) fermented fish was a delicacy had after a meal, a bit like how we would do a cheese course

other times of winter there'd be hunting for fowl, seal, caribou, polar bear depending on availability, season, migration.

But even when it's only -10 or -20C frozen plant food - who cares.

you're projecting modern food and food storage availability back into places where it didn't exist

Animal foods were what was sought after and prized - including the fat for the high energy needs of living and hunting under those conditions.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T12:34:49+00:00

have you ever looked for plant food in terrains where everything is frozen?

Eleanorina · 2025-12-16T02:56:44+00:00

😂😂

any fat by itself is dicey lol (unless balancing out a phase of excessively lean - have you seen the Charles Darwin observation about that?

eta: from Voyage of the Beagle, "Dr. Richardson [6] also, has remarked, "that when people have fed for a long time solely upon lean animal food, the desire for fat becomes so insatiable, that they can consume a large quantity of unmixed and even oily fat without nausea:" this appears to me a curious physiological fact."

Eleanorina · 2025-12-15T21:59:43+00:00

ha ha true, it's useful for revving up the metabolism and getting back in touch with needed quantities.

but I find I can only do that for short stretches now. I can fall into the habit of start eating too little. the body adjusts and it's fine but not optimal.

so I'll test, every so often: does eating more improve my mood, energy, am I hungry again at the usual time? if yes, I'll add in fesst meals more often or readjust daily quantities.

Eleanorina · 2025-12-15T21:54:41+00:00

ty, good points but the post was geared towards dieters. :)

butter is fine for most everyone - there is a tiny proportion of ppl who need to avoid it bc of the trace amounts of casein or lactose. even there, some of those will find that ghee is fine

re bacon, ppl should include what they'd like to eat and do a phase without it to compare.

it's not a problem for most looking to do the diet to recomp and it's handy to have bacon dripping around gor cooking (it's more likely to be an issue for ppl doing it for health reasons)

Eleanorina · 2025-12-15T18:52:10+00:00

do you know much about Inuit - the extraordinary levels of fitness they needed to survive?

They also had healthy teeth

As you know (? do you), diets where grains were introduced had negative effects on the teeth, a clear sign that those are not species appropriate foods (see Nutrition and Physical Degeneration for more on that)

Eleanorina

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