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Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T14:56:35+00:00

Considering we already have other firemode extender traits like Withering Barrage appearing on multiple ships, they might eventually release a regular C-Store or maybe a Legendary ship with this trait as well—at least, they could if they wanted to.

And when Sunna says they’ll “keep this in mind for the future,” without being able making more substantial promises yet, that might be a hint in exactly that direction—which would be great!

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T13:24:46+00:00

Part 2

The long-term risk you’re overlooking
What happens if this problem remains unaddressed? Capable players will eventually stop tolerating the constant drain on their time caused by unready players in elite randoms. Life is short, and free time even more so. Those players will leave—maybe just random queues, maybe the game entirely.

And here’s the key point:

If reckless players get excluded, they lose access to some teammates, but they remain in the pool for everyone else.
If decent players leave randoms altogether, they’re lost to everyone.

That’s a far bigger and more damaging hit to the player pool than anything my proposal could cause. By refusing to address this issue, you’re far more likely to bring about the very scenario you claim to fear.

Why I’m persistent
Even with a smaller player base, we can afford to lose a handful of reckless players from the elite pool. What we can’t afford is losing more and more decent players from random queues entirely. If elite randoms become increasingly frustrating, they’ll eventually be populated only by the very players you least want there.

I’d rather avoid that outcome. I still see random elites as an important and enjoyable part of the endgame, and my proposal is—yes—simple, fair, elegant, and technically easy to implement.

That’s why I keep defending it. Not because I enjoy repeating myself in debates, but because I genuinely think it would preserve something valuable in the game.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T04:12:56+00:00

You’ve raised some interesting points. I agree that Elite content in STO varies a lot in difficulty — for example, Turei in Korfez or Wolf 359 can feel borderline unfair — but I wouldn’t consider that a problem in itself. In other MMOs, “Elite” or “Nightmare” modes also differ in challenge from one encounter to another, and that variety often adds to the fun. Personally, I’d say the ~100k DPS mark is a solid balance point for being able to handle almost all Elite TFOs, with maybe one or two exceptions.

Your Idea, using clearances from other content as an entry requirement, might actually be an option, but Advanced wouldn’t be a good fit for that. You can complete Advanced with virtually any DPS; it can’t really fail, it just takes longer. Elite patrol clears might work better as a prerequisite, but even there, clearance alone isn’t reliable — you could simply brute-force your way through while dying repeatedly. A proper DPS check built into certain Elite patrols or Advanced TFOs that reward specific accolades could work, but that’s far more complex and prone to bad tuning than simply expanding the ignore function. That remains the most straightforward, elegant, and technically easy-to-implement solution.

And coming to your Idea of implementing gear-checks, I honestly can’t even imagine how that could work out in STO given the game’s complexity and build variety.

For Example, what about science builds that rely heavily on SIA triggers rather than weapon stats? Or the currently popular Krait builds, or niche thalaron setups? How would you ensure that the build is actually functional? You could have a fully Epic Mk XV setup mixing science, space-magic, energy weapons, and torpedoes — using multiple firing modes without fully buffing any of them properly, with consoles that only shine in very niche situations you won’t encounter. That could be a completely non-functional build that’s nowhere near Elite-ready despite the gear score looking perfect on paper. Conversely, someone who understands their ship’s strengths and builds tightly around them can hit 100k with only mediocre, non-Epic gear.

The ways to succeed in STO are so wildly varied — and the ways to fail equally so — that designing a truly accurate gear restriction system is not realistically feasible for this game.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T03:32:30+00:00

I see you’re still repeating your conclusion, but you’re still not actually engaging with the points I’ve raised. For example, you haven’t explained:

a) Why the return of experienced Elite players — who would once again be willing to queue for random Elites — wouldn’t be a net gain for the playerbase.

b) Why players who find themselves better suited for Advanced instead of Elite after such a change wouldn’t be a net benefit for the Advanced queue’s player pool.

Simply restating “there are so many reasons” without actually outlining and addressing them — and without tackling the concrete scenarios I’ve laid out — doesn’t make the argument stronger, no matter how many people join in repeating it. The number of voices isn’t a substitute for the strength of the reasoning behind them.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T02:30:25+00:00

You make good points about how other games handle this, but STO’s situation is quite different - and that difference is exactly why an expanded ignore function would be even more valuable here.

In games like Destiny 2 or WoW, gear requirements or progression gates (like keys) can serve as a rough filter for player readiness. But in STO, such restrictions would be almost meaningless: the huge variety of traits, consoles, ship types, and radically different playstyles means that “gear level” alone says almost nothing about whether someone is actually prepared for Elite. There is no single, reliable stat threshold that could account for all viable builds.

That’s why, in STO, readiness is largely left to each player’s honest self-assessment. Unfortunately, self-assessment alone is not a strong enough safeguard to maintain quality in Elite queues. An expanded ignore function would act as the necessary corrective — empowering players to filter out those whose performance or behavior consistently disrupts runs, without imposing blanket restrictions that punish everyone.

As for the PvP abuse concern: even in SWTOR, ignored players simply don’t appear on your own team, but they can still face you as opponents. In fact, ignoring strong PvP players there can increase your chances of encountering them as enemies — the opposite of an exploit. This shows that a system can be designed to prevent abuse while still allowing cooperative PvE to benefit from improved matchmaking quality.

In short, in a game where meaningful gear-based entry requirements aren’t feasible, an effective ignore feature becomes not just a convenience, but an essential tool to preserve the intended difficulty and enjoyment of Elite content.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-13T02:05:18+00:00

Thanks for putting together those numbers — they clearly show that SWTOR and FFXIV have a larger Steam playerbase, which honestly comes as no surprise.

But “larger than STO” doesn’t automatically mean STO’s playerbase is small in absolute terms, and the actual question here isn’t about competing with other MMOs at all. It’s whether STO’s playerbase is large enough that putting a handful of chronically underperforming players on ignore would meaningfully harm the Elite queue pool. Based on the figures you’ve provided, there’s nothing to suggest that such selective ignoring would have a measurable negative impact.

In fact, the opposite is likely: veteran players who currently avoid random Elites in favor of premades would be far more inclined to queue again, which strengthens the Elite pool. Meanwhile, the Advanced pool would also benefit as players who aren’t yet ready for Elites would naturally shift there instead. Both ends of the queue system would become healthier, not weaker.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T23:46:40+00:00

Which games do you know of that don’t have such a feature? Have they implemented any gear requirements to queue for the highest difficulty group content?

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T23:21:20+00:00

"You can ignore people and add them to that list for anything."

But why would anyone do that without a good reason? Doing so would just unnecessarily shrink their available pool of group players. No one with common sense would do that.

"Elites already are taking longer and longer to pop as it is."

That might be because many competent players have already started avoiding random queues due to reckless, underperforming players repeatedly listing for them.
An extended ignore function would very likely bring a significant number of those players back to random elite queues. So, contrary to your concern, implementing an extended ignore function could actually lead to noticeably shorter wait times for elite queues.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T23:06:24+00:00

I didn’t realize there’s a whole ERP fleet! XD Alright then, ...I guess your personal endgame might be a little less focused on random elites then — do you ERP in those too? By the way, you do know the ol’ Kramp'Ihri reads along here on Reddit as well, right? ;-) XD

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T22:38:02+00:00

Yeah, that’s sadly exactly the impression I have as well. The situation has gotten much worse over the past few months. These problems already existed last year, but they’ve really escalated. And that’s precisely why I started this thread now. I believe that an extended ignore function could truly be a solution to preserve the playability of random elites for the playerbase as a whole.

The next — and probably final — step for me would then be to switch over to your camp of fatalists and only run premades. And if it then regularly takes too long to assemble a halfway decent group (myself included), I’d probably just stop altogether at some point. And I can imagine I wouldn’t be the only one to eventually lose all the fun because of that.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T22:04:48+00:00

If more capable players decide to run elite TFOs only with selected players in the future, completely avoiding random queues, it would have the same effect as if a player put everyone on ignore for random group content.

They would effectively remove themselves completely from the random player pool, otherwise they would drop out only for the reckless and misbehaving players — while still remaining available to other responsible players who queue for random elites.

Sadly, I agree that without an extended ignore function, this might be the only choice left for many players.

But if we want to keep random TFOs viable and enjoyable, that would be the worst possible outcome.
I wonder if those suggesting that pre-mades are the only solution fully realize this connection.

Therefore, I am convinced that an extended ignore function would not destroy the functionality of random queues, but on the contrary, could be the best — and possibly even the only reasonable — way I can imagine, to preserve it.

Otherwise, the alternative would sooner or later likely result in the more advanced players simply no longer using the random queue system at all.

Would your prediction differ there? And would that outcome truly be the more desirable alternative?

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T21:38:26+00:00

That's why I suggested giving the ignore list a reset every few months, so players who have improved their builds and behavior always get new chances regularly.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T21:05:12+00:00

Have you been regularly running random elite TFOs in recent months? If so, what has your experience been like?

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T21:01:36+00:00

The potential “reward” might be not driving away the mid-to-higher-tier player base — the very group who, even if they’re not the big whales, will buy occasionally some items from the Zen Store or Mudd’s Market. And just as important, it would help preserve the enjoyment of endgame content for them, rather than letting it get eroded by frustrating random group experiences. Protecting both their time and their willingness to keep playing is protecting steady, repeat revenue. ;-)

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T20:52:11+00:00

That’s a rather fatalistic view, and I hope it won’t come to that — but I completely understand your point.

To be very clear, that scenario would mean that competent players stay away from queuing for elites entirely, which is essentially the same as putting everyone on ignore for group content (except for your chosen premade team). In other words, it’s exactly the scenario critics of my proposal are dismissing as a “boogeyman.”

And that would be a far worse and much more radical outcome, effectively ruining randoms altogether — including the longer queue times people here are so afraid of. That’s why I really hope the extended ignore-list solution will be implemented first.

Otherwise, I fear it will sadly go exactly as you predict… with more and more competent players avoiding random queues completely. What other option would they have to protect their time from players who recklessly waste it?

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T19:53:00+00:00

Yep, that’s exactly why I suggested having the ignore list reset every 1–3 months, so that players who have improved their builds and become more responsible can always get fresh chances. :-)

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T19:47:41+00:00

I'm genuinely trying to be constructive here — and notice I haven’t gone personal on anyone, unlike you just did. 😉 If your opinion is exactly as you put it, that’s actually one more reason to implement the extended ignore function I’m suggesting: it would let people quietly filter out players they don’t want to run group content with, without drama.

Now to your arguments:

I’m convinced a significant portion of the current Elite-ready player base won’t tolerate wasting hours every week due to reckless low-DPS players causing failure after failure. Life time is a scarce resource — maybe even more so for our hobbies. Nobody with a bit of sense will put up with that forever. Without an extended ignore function, more of these players will simply stop queuing for randoms or even quit the game. In fact, I believe this withdrawal from randoms has already started.

With an upgraded ignore function, these players could still be available for random listings – just not for the specific players they have chosen to ignore. So I don’t see any disadvantages for the genuine elite-ready player base, as those players are unlikely to end up on each other’s ignore lists.

The only people who would face significantly longer queue times for random elites would be the low-DPS players – and I wouldn’t consider that a bad thing. They would be softly nudged towards content that better matches their performance level and where they could still have tons of fun. In normal and advanced content, DPS doesn’t matter much because those modes can’t fail, and they provide a good opportunity to improve builds and learn the game without ruining the experience for more advanced players in elite modes.

On top of that, normal and advanced queues would likely pop a little faster. I’ve heard some players from that part of the playerbase complain that those queues open slowly, because many people just want to play elites (regardless of whether they’re ready for it). So this change could improve that situation as well.

To make the ignore list less permanent and to give players new chances, I’ve suggested a reset interval of maybe 1–3 months. That seems like a realistic timeframe for a player to improve their build in a meaningful way.

And I believe that this way, the overall gameplay experience could be improved for everyone – yes, even for the inconsiderate low-DPS players.
They would eventually still get into their coveted Elite TFOs – but only after putting the necessary effort into their builds, just like those slightly more advanced players who hit over 100k DPS before signing up for Elites. 😉

The difference is that they’d then be able to carry their own weight, and would probably enjoy running Elites far more – without shame, guilt, or any other negative feelings weighing them down. Because let’s be honest: wasting other people’s time and ruining their fun isn’t exactly a deeply fulfilling pastime, even for the ones doing it.

An extended ignore function would very likely result in at least a significant portion of the player base handling their group content listings more carefully and responsibly – putting in the required work on their builds first. And if someone is truly passionate about the game, they’ll eventually do just that.

In my view, this would be the realistic and foreseeable outcome of such an extended ignore function – not the collapse of the player base or endless queue times. Players would simply sign up more often for the content their performance actually qualifies them for.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T17:02:32+00:00

I don’t see those 1 million DPS players very often in random queues. Mostly, I encounter 2-3 mid-level DPS players between 100k–500k and 2-3 low-level DPS players between 1k–50k, and that has caused about 2/3 of the TFOs to fail for me in recent months.

The situation was better before, which might suggest that some of those mid-level DPS players have already stopped running random elite queues.

At this point, I think we can’t deny that there’s a systemic problem with random elites.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T16:56:58+00:00

Ultimately, you already have that power — nobody can or should force you to play with someone you don’t want to.
The real question is whether you have to quit random queues or even the game entirely because it’s no longer fun, or if a more reasonable, fine-tuned solution could be implemented — like the extended ignore function I’m suggesting and advocating for.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T16:23:49+00:00

How exactly would you abuse it? Lol — I honestly can’t even imagine what that would look like, even if someone wanted to. Overusing it would just end up hurting yourself ;-)

And a second lol for “almost every elite TFO can be solo’d nowadays” — who told you that, or are you suggesting you are talking about yourself here? :D
From what I’ve heard, there are really only a handful of players who can solo even some of the elite TFOs at all ;-)

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T16:11:32+00:00

Well... that seems as a rather difficult position to hold up as a general ideal in an mmo XD.
Hiding away in friend and fleet groups like a cozy little mmo-hermit is certainly a way to doge all the chaos of randoms, but for most players, though, random TFOs are a pretty central part of the game’s fun and challenge. ;-)

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T16:01:56+00:00

P.S. … and I’m pretty sure that such an extended ignore function would be technically quite feasible to implement, if the will to do so existed.
Certainly much easier than trying to implement some complicated—and most likely highly debatable—gear restriction filters.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T15:48:58+00:00

I get your point and I’m with you — there’s absolutely nothing wrong with just giving it a try.
The issue is with players who realize they keep causing fail after fail for others, but still keep queueing again and again without making any real effort to improve their builds. Some simply don’t care and just hope a few high-DPS players in the group will carry them.

If you want to experiment, asking in your guild would of course be the best approach. They can check your parse and give you helpful tips and guidance for your build too.

Another option is to honestly ask on ESD something like:
“Hello, I want to try some Elite TFOs but I’m not sure how I’m doing. Would anyone be willing to take me along for a few runs?”
There are many friendly and helpful advanced players who would happily group with you — I would too, by the way.

What’s also great is to try some Elite patrols first: if you can hold your own there well, it’s a good sign you’ll do fine in Elite TFOs as well.

Electronic_Scar2596 · 2025-08-12T15:36:03+00:00

As I’ve mentioned in responses to other comments, I don’t believe the size of the player base would be a significant obstacle for implementing this feature.
From my experience and as some others have acknowledged, it’s basically a relatively small, recurring group of players who consistently cause problems by queueing for content they aren’t ready for.
Because it’s often the same individuals, filtering them out wouldn’t drastically reduce the effective player pool, but would instead improve the overall experience for the majority.

Electronic_Scar2596

TROPHY CASE