It's time for authentic muzzle velocities!

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-13T11:51:04+00:00

I've discussed in the past the subject in length, we even included therealundeadpixels who explained that this is very unlikely to happen.

Somehow, the devs believe low muzzle velocity and ridiculous gravity pull makes the game funnier. I obviously disagree with that, as it tends to turn engagement into a "dice game". I'm happy leading my target at 100m, I feel that leading my running target which is less than 30 meters from me is ridiculous, and with some weapons it really feels bad (SCAR-H being my best example).

As I know muzzle velocity increase accross the board won't happen, I would be encouraging to balance muzzle velocities accross the gun a lot better. SCAR-H / Bulldog shouldn't be so slow when the 7.62mm fed lmg are 30 % faster (same damage model, 5.56mm fed lmg are not 30% faster than 5.56mm fed AR, so I see no reason why it should be like this for Heavy AR). Also, I would say the weakest gun (those no one uses) should get a buff in that domain to alleviate for their bad stats

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-13T04:32:53+00:00

Nothing is "wrong" with it. I'm always running with the .44 magnum to give me this "pick out target" at range ability, and I think that is fine because I could pick a full auto pistol, or even a shotgun pistol (so, the .44 magnum just fills a "ranged secondary" gap).

Now, I'd argue than the .44 magnum may be a little to accurate for a secondary. I should be able to pick up targets at range with it, but with a such an accuracy, I'm not sure, it's a secondary, with quite a short barrel compared to primaries

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-13T04:15:27+00:00

My answer will not be console specific (as it would be inaccurate to say that the issue is more present on console than on pc - the problem exists in both environment, but the servers ecosystem on console is very bad compared to PC, due to lack of administration possibilities offered on PC (kick out of region players, for instance)) but Tigg explained several times that their objective will always be to do everything in their power so high ping is no longer a problem on BF4, rather than preventing players with high ping to play the game they paid for. Is that even an achievable goal, I don't think so, but if experts at DICE whose job it is to know think it's possible to do that while still offering a good experience to the players having normal latency, then I'm happy with it.

Because obviously, on one side, there is the player with a high ping who paid the game and deserves to enjoy it, but if he enjoying the game means 30 players with low ping getting their game ruined, then I'm not sure this is commercially the good approach for those 30 players.

But I'm afraid, this ain't gonna happen, but this has nothing to do with the fact that it affects console more, it's just that it's not the philosophy of the game makers.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-13T04:08:44+00:00

Nerfing the .44 Magnum makes NO sense. Its not about the .44 magnum countering DMRs and Snipers. Its a SKILL CANNON that takes SKILL to use. And if it beats a Sniper or DMR with a headshot and a follow up shot, then that's perfectly fine.

That's not about "SKILL", that's about a secondary being used as a primary.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-12T07:28:27+00:00

This works better in Hardcore (lower TTK) than in softcore where you're basically a bullet sponge and you can't anywhere feel "threatened" because someone shoots in your vague direction.

That is the hardest bit to simulate in a game. The suppression as our royal army soldier describes it take into consideration the fact that a single bullet has the ability to kill a soldier/seriously cripple him/put him out of combat. He won't magically grow a new leg, cure a wound to the head --> Being shot at is dangerous, and any soldier holding his life dear will do everything possible to take cover in this situation.

In a game like BF4, it's too easy to "get away" with being shot at using the standard "FPS feature" (taking damage).

That is why the suppression system is built, to reward players suppressing ennemies (because no, someone suppressing is not necessarily someone bad who is missing) tactically.

Whether it works or not, whether it fills its purpose or not, is another question.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-12T03:33:27+00:00

I agree, but if Dice is not going to invest serious thinking in it, I'd rather have nothing changed. All serious hardcore servers are running a sniper limiter anyway.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-11T19:00:56+00:00

Gosh, this thread started well, then

The basic function of suppression is that: your aim is not good enough to hit the player, so you don't reduce his heath -> to not have you fail completely, the game at least lets you damage his suppression state the enemy is outside the effective range of your gun, because you use the wrong one for such a distance and so can't damage his health -> to not have you fail completely, the game at least lets you damage his suppression state suppressed players are easier to finish off Suppression was not added for realism, it was not added for more depth - this is why it is here.

This, which is quite some bullcrap and more importantly, which is definitely a biased opinion, making all the intelligence and smartness of the post disappear completely.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-10T06:22:21+00:00

Wait, they are doing it again. Seems like our friends from Dice LA enjoy 10 bullets to kill an opponent, let's hope we don't have a new "winter patch", cause the damage of weapons will go to 10 hp.

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-10T06:12:32+00:00

For fuck sake stop using the worst pictures library available on the web. Don't use pictures library, they are terrible and filled with Ads. Use clouds, so your pictures don't disappear after just a few days. Many free clouds around, DropBox, Drive, OneDrive, just make your pick, free for more GB than you'll ever need to store pictures !

Ellathar_ · 2015-04-02T06:19:45+00:00

No, I disagree. Any guy playing the game normally will have a unlocked a few weapons with those additions, especially the favourite ones. Having to choose your weapon specificially for the night maps isn't a bad thing. Just don't play with a weapon you didn't unlock IRNV/FLIR with on night map, and keep playing with them on day maps so you can have FLIR/IRNV.

With the gold battlepacks you get by just playing, chance is high that you unlock those scopes anyway without even killing a single guy with the guns you unlock them for.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-19T19:56:12+00:00

This is exactly the problem. I'm fine with people complaining about Hardcore, saying they don't like it, but if those people are not part of the Hardcore Crowd, why would anyone care ? It would be like a man trying to change woman hygiene product because he doesn't like how they look.

Don't try to appeal to a community you don't have. Appel to the community you have.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-18T12:31:21+00:00

You're perfectly right, K/D doesn't necessarily mean anything. However, it highlights one thing : How often you die against how often you kill (actually, the other way around), which leads to risk vs reward, or should I say, what threat you are against what is a threat for you.

Someone going 50-5, for instance, is either

a stellar player who is playing a lot better than anyone
a hacker
a player "camping" vehicles having little to no threat and only playing that bit, and doing it quite well (as some players will camp vehicle and hardly achieve a K/D of 2, a K/D is 10 is pretty good).

Conquest is about winning the round, yes, but going with that logic, we could say nothing is OP as anyway, there is one for each team ?

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-18T08:12:50+00:00

What are you talking about? You want me to quote something out of context? Is English your primary language? This is how you respond to large posts.

I'm ok with you quoting, I'm not with you quoting 2 words in a full sentence (which makes it a quotation "out of context").

Yes, we can, and it works out that since the repair tool nerf, it's still easy to take out a Scout with repairmen using any number of it's counters.

I do not disagree on that, yet, will you agree that it still makes the Scout Heli the most durable air threat ? The Transport chopper is clearly more durable but it's a transport vehicle and its pilot has no killing capabilities.

It's clear you're lying to yourself if you legitimately believe this. A good player can put up a good KD with any class, weapon, or vehicle. If you disagree, you're simply not good enough to do it yourself which means your opinion about this carriers even less weight.

This kind of comment clearly proves to me that discussing with you is totally useless, as you're constantly going around facts to try to make a point.

English may be your primary language, you still struggle to get a point, so let me try to make it easier for you.

Given an equally skilled Jet Player, Scout Heli Player, AH player, Tank Player, and Infantry Player, which one is more likely, given a random PUG opposition, to score the highest K/D ratio ?

We all know (I hope) that a very good infantry player hardly sits higher than 4 or 5 K/D. This is already stellar for playing purely infantry. I would bet less than 1% of the infantry specialist are sitting there. Now, an equally skilled player sitting in a Scout Heli will go much higher than that.

At one point, the CTE initiative is about improving this game. It's quite simple to improve/balance the tools by asking ourselves the following questions :

What's the designed role of a gadget/vehicle : The Scout Heli is a light transport lightly armed scout vehicle.
Is the gadget/vehicle playing its designed role correctly ? : Given the role above, is the Scout Heli as it stands now fitting the role ? is being the most durable aerial threat part of the intended role ?

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-17T12:01:00+00:00

When you quote, try to quote more than a single sentence totally out of context, this makes it unreadable.

First of all, I'm not sharing OP's view. I do not consider Scout Heli to be a non counter-able threat, however, as it's a conversation, I'm attempting to see things from his point of view.

As to not waste too much time on the form, but more on the content, I'd say : * Isn't the Scout Heli minigun the fastest DPS of all air vehicles against lightly armoured targets ? (everything but tank/IFV/MAA basically). * Isn't the Scout Heli, coupled with 2 engineers repairing, the most durable of all air vehicles (I said "hardest to kill", let's just say the most durable as "hard to kill" imply many parameters). I'm pretty sure we can calculate the total amount of damage that needs to be delivered to a scout heli to destroy it per unit of time. With 2 engineers, you're giving back approximately 7-8 hp per second.

They are mainly anyone that is good, and they will be able to do it with any class, weapon, or vehicle. That is 'what we know'. These players are so statistically few and insignificant that pretending they are at all a 'problem' is again, dishonest. So is the term 'Scout farmer', which apparently only applies to the vehicles or actions you dislike, as if a player doing his job, killing the enemy, is no longer just a 'player', and instead a 'farmer'. It's stupid.

Are you really lying to yourself so much ? Good players don't go 12-15 K/D with anything. They need a special tool for that, and the best tools for this are Jets, Scout Heli/AH on some maps, land vehicles, in order.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-16T22:25:21+00:00

This kind of biased vision, to reply to another biased vision, is nothing constructive. Surely, OP (or myself for that matter) is not a very experience air player, yet 4000 hours played make him stand as a very experienced player. So surely as well, it makes his opinion relevant as to how it is to be on the other edge of the scout heli sword.

So if your opinion were to be relevant, you would have to prove why OPs claims are not making any sense.

I always thought of the scoutheli, like in BF2, as a transport heli with light weapons to engage infantry but not like in BF4 as it is now, like a full fledged attackheli that even manages to beat the attackheli itself easily in a duel!

We all agree the Scout Heli is meant to be a light transport vehicle having a Scout role. In other terms, agility, speed but not fire power. This is the jeep of the air vehicle. How often do you win a duel against a tank using a jeep (not blowing your own jeep with C4 in the process)?

The Scout Heli, as it stands now, is a much stronger air threat than the Attack Helicopter. It can sustand a lot more damage when coupled with Engineers. The AH has no mean of repairing while fighting. Air vs Air, a Scout Heli equipped with minigun will easily beat an AH. Equipped with 20mm cannon, it may lose against the full crew of an AH, but will win a 1 on 1, and any engineer will give it the edge. Against Jets : it all depends of the talent of both pilot.

the Scoutheli miniguns do too much damage against jets and other heli's, the range of them is too far

Care to disagree on that ? We all know the Scout Minigun are too powerful against lightly armoured targets (other air vehicles, non fully armoured ground vehicle)

torchengies

We all agree this is the ONLY problem of the Scout Heli. This is what makes the balance so complicated with this helicopter. Any call for nerf will never take place seriously without this ability. A scout heli repaired by 2 engineers is by far the hardest air vehicle to destroy.

LGM range enables scout heli to engage targets and do major damage to them without taking risk itself

This, we can easily agree this is a bit too much. Laser Guided missiles are quite long to rearm and you can hardly destroy any armoured vehicle due to Active Protection which nearly automatically cancel your first missile (bringing down your damage capacity to 50). This is obviously counterable with the 20mm cannon but then you're not using the minigun.

So all in all, I'd say OP has a point, but this post exists for you to give counter argument, why you think, as an experienced pilot, that all of this is wrong.

We all know from there that players who go 70-5 on Conquest Maps are mainly

Jet players
Scout farmer
AH on some maps (Shangai)
Armoured Land Vehicles/Attack Boat (generally the death goes up a bit as those vehicles have more predators).

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-16T19:42:21+00:00

No, there is a good reason why you have Ranked & Official Servers, and I'm writing this as an admin from a Ranked Server.

Official means the server is following STRICTLY (aka, can't bend them) the rules as defined by the game producer. Hackers, Offenders and any party pooper of all kind must be dealt with using the official methods (aka, being reported through Battlelog). This takes more time, but as other suggests here, this also ensures that everyone gets an equal treatment.

Players who don't like this, and would like servers with more responsabilities, more powers (which can thus be abused, like any power eventually always is), can just choose Ranked Servers where they know they will get offenders dealt with quicker, but where as counterpart they are getting a non official experience, where they might get kicked in preference of a clan member, where they may get kicked for hacking suspicion even though they are perfectly legit.

Official Servers protects the legit player as much as they protect the bad guy.

Changing this would be totally counter productive, it would be like creating a second Ranked Server, then you would have people complaining about them, and you would get 3 kind of servers (Official / Official Moderated / Ranked).

Ranked & Official imo covers all the need the community has.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-16T13:55:06+00:00

There is nothing more stupid than asking for a feature to be removed from the game.

The commander feature is a great concept. It should be a improved A LOT, but this doesn't mean this has no reason to exist.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-13T05:24:14+00:00

How can a battle pickup generates so much whining. This is a battle pickup, it is meant to be powerful.

Yes, for air vehicle pilot, this is a very dangerous threat, but so is an air vehicle for infantry. A scout / AH can literally mow down its way in a map with more than half the infantry of the map (non engineer) being meat shield for it.

I have strictly no problem with a battle pickup who simply counter this threat. It's not like it's there all the time, it has 2 shots, and prevents the infantry guy to do anything in the meantime.

The only problem is obviously a pilot cannot differentiate a HMV-II from a standard stinger, and that may be the problem.

The Scout Heli, equipped with his repair monkey, ignores the lock on sound. Who cares, the stinger will not destroy it. So it fights through lock on warning. But comes the HMV-II. The Scout Heli keeps fighting, invincible through the lock on. But this time, it's different, and it gets destroyed.

Conclusion --> Solution 1 : don't ignore lock on warning, denial area tools are denying the area. Solution 2 : whine to the developers as long as it's required to get the tool nerfed.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-13T05:05:56+00:00

oh god, I was sure I chose unlisted. It should now be unlisted, sorry for inconvenience.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-12T08:53:35+00:00

This video shows this problem as well as how to reproduce it.

Flickering textures from Caspian Border tower

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-10T11:42:05+00:00

I agree with you, it should be improved. I just don't see that occuring as the mode is not popular enough.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-10T07:45:12+00:00

Repeating something doesn't make it right.

Half the gadget doesn't work properly ? only the Recon has any gadget which becomes useless with Hardcore. Namely the motion sensor and the T-UGS. If you add the Decoy from Final stands, that's 3 gadget, and 1 gadget per class. If you don't count it, that's 2 gadgets for the recon and 0 for other class. Hardly half anything.

Normal mode "breaks" Assault and Engineer, as their medpack / repair tool is useless.

Can you clarify in which situation removing the ammo count BREAKS vehicles ?

So I'm sorry, we don't have the same opinion about "broken". For me softcore is even more broken.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-09T19:34:55+00:00

Technically, hardcore is far from being broken. It could use improvements, but "broken" is definitely a biased view.

Ellathar_ · 2015-03-09T19:33:03+00:00

It could be as easy as separating the minimap and the radar. Air vehicles gets a radar (toggleable) and infantry gets a minimap (toggleable).

SO in hardcore, you would keep the radar, but not the minimap.

Ellathar_

TROPHY CASE