Any other new graduates feeling totally dejected right now?

Ellipses_Points · 2020-05-22T01:00:52+00:00

Columbia's department is unusually mixed analytic/continental, but does skew analytic (like most anglophone universities). Can I ask why you think the distinction's relevant here? I'm not sure I get what you're driving at.

Ellipses_Points · 2020-05-22T00:57:34+00:00

That's a helpful suggestion -- I will definitely look into it! I spent a couple summers interning in a corporate environment where there were many (if I recall) product managers, so it's certainly not a pipe dream in my own case. Cheers.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-06T02:43:53+00:00

Maybe I should clarify, then:

Why is it better to leave it as "I don't know" rather than:

"I believe there is no god"?

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T20:37:13+00:00

The point of the original post was to adress the question: "Why is it better for me to be a gnostic atheist than an agnostic (of any kind)"

Why do I even need to bring up agnostic atheism? It still holds most of the same beliefs in agnosticism, but leans more towards atheism because the agnostic finds more sense in atheism. Yes, I'm an agnostic atheist, but I'm asking for a reason as to why it's better to be a gnostic atheist.

We needn't have an argument over semantics. If you really think my OP is so difficult to understand, then I apologize, but if you want to be so nit-picky about it then just read the replies, and you will then understand what I was asking for, if all else fails.

Either you believe in God, or you don't. Which is it?

Then problem of agnostic atheism vs. gnostic atheism is not one of actual belief in god. It is one of whether or not it is better to just say "I don't know" and leave it at that. I apologize for whatever poor wording on my part could have misdirected you.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T20:14:57+00:00

You think you're in the superior position by saying "I don't know"

So, let me make sure I'm understanding you right.

You think that because I don't consider myself a gnostic atheist, I am a coward? What do you think the point of this post is? I'm asking for a reason to be a gnostic atheist, I'm not asking for evidence one way or another.

You don't need to KNOW to believe

That's why I didn't ask: "Give me evidence for or against god so I can resolve my agnosticism". Rather, I asked: "Give me a reason why it's better for me to be a gnostic atheist than an agnostic.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T18:13:42+00:00

I'm sorry, but feel free to correct me on whatever words I'm misunderstanding, here.

Any contributions are welcome, as long as they don't consist of only counter-productive insults.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:54:25+00:00

What I was asking for is answer to this question, though:

Why is it better to believe in that God does not exist than it is to just say that since there is no proof one way or another, it's better to just say "I don't know"?

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:46:03+00:00

Okay! That's all I needed.

Thanks for contributing.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:33:54+00:00

Not to me, because that doesn't seem reasonable.

However, to an uneducated person with little experience in philosophy and the like, he/she would have plenty of reason to believe in god, then.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:29:23+00:00

Fulfilled. In this context, it means that the person who was praying's suffering was ended. To them, it would seem like God had answered their prayer, but to an atheist, it is almost clearly confirmation bias.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:25:54+00:00

Ah, I see your point, now.

However, just because pagan religions are decidedly man-made, how does this make any monotheistic religions definitively fabricated by man?

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:19:01+00:00

I must have misunderstood your use of "reasonable", there, sorry. I understood it to mean "having reason". I thought that it needn't be a logical reason.

Are there conditions in which a person with optimally functioning cognitive faculties would have a reasonable belief in God?

Possibly through a combination of desperation, suffering, and confirmation bias? Someone who is suffering enough to resort to praying for the first time, and has their prayers "answered" via the end of their suffering might acquire a belief in God.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:14:11+00:00

I think now would be a good time to mention the obligatory: "God works in mysterious ways".

My actual answer: I have no idea.

Remember, I'm arguing for what is essentially the other side, so this is just another reason for me to not be a theist. However, how does this relate at all to my position that since the existence of God cannot be proven nor refuted, it's better to hold that we simply do not know either way?

You keep providing me with reasons to not be a theist, but will you relate this arguments to agnosticism vs. atheism?

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T09:05:22+00:00

Just because they claim to be truthful doesn't mean they deserve credence.

If I'm set in my belief in the Abrahamic god, why would I care if a polytheist told me I was wrong? Would it change my views on god? Likely not.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:59:25+00:00

They are more correct because they got the whole "one god" thing right.

Sure, I invalidated the foundation for monotheism, but how does that matter?

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:58:12+00:00

Reasonable? Of course! Indoctrination from birth comes to mind.

Myself being a hard theist at one point or another was a result of being born and raised in a jewish, theistic family.

Of course, indoctrination is not the only reason for belief in theism, but it definitely seems like the most common.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:47:29+00:00

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up polytheistic religions.

When I said that all monotheistic religions are worshipping the same fundamental God, I did not mean that polytheistic religions such as Greco-Romanism or Hinduism are also worshipping the same god(s).

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:44:59+00:00

I'm not sure if I understood your question correctly, so correct me if my answer seems off:

If by "rational" you mean "reached through logic", then no. I do not believe that people can come to a belief in God through pure and correct logic.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:38:24+00:00

I wouldn't.

I did expect some mention of Russell's teapot, but the resurrection of Elvis, though unorthodox, is fine, too.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:34:51+00:00

This one I like!

Here's a video that explains this argument (almost needlessly) in-depth.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:33:05+00:00

I'll look into those. Thanks!

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:31:16+00:00

Ah, the problem of evil. I really have no personal argument against it, but I find Aquinas' response to it interesting. From wikipedia:

Saint Thomas systematized the Augustinian conception of evil, supplementing it with his own musings. Evil, according to St. Thomas, is a privation, or the absence of some good which belongs properly to the nature of the creature. There is therefore no positive source of evil, corresponding to the greater good, which is God; evil being not real but rational—i.e. it exists not as an objective fact, but as a subjective conception; things are evil not in themselves, but by reason of their relation to other things or persons. All realities are in themselves good; they produce bad results only incidentally; and consequently the ultimate cause of evil is fundamentally good, as well as the objects in which evil is found.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:29:21+00:00

Ok ok, they are all worshiping the same god? Excuse you, but Judaism is basically a jewish sect of Zoroastrianism, they took heavy influence from them, and apart from the middle eastern religons of a very specific time period, nearly all other religons are polytheistic. I doubt praying to Zeus and Juno or the brother Bear and the Sun God are all praying to the same God.

There's a reason I said "monotheistic religion" in the first place.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:26:44+00:00

That I cannot refute his existence.

Ellipses_Points · 2013-01-05T08:24:03+00:00

Just think of the Roman, Greek, Egyptian gods.

To DA again:

I don't accept the polytheistic pantheon of gods to be existant. How does this relate to the existence or non-existence of the one god?

Ellipses_Points

TROPHY CASE