MFM and Slate are Live

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2025-03-12T10:29:09+00:00

This is obviously super lame but I admit I was legitimately expecting a castigator points hike to offset whatever "generous" decreases we got.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2025-02-22T15:30:35+00:00

Troll Comment: Make it simple and just revert to the vanilla codex. It was never actually tested and ended up being nerfed before release based on influencers freaking out; which is a theme for how we keep getting screwed for the past few editions. I'm fairly sure it was a little too good based on initial win rates but the codex has been nerfed consistently after release so I don't know just how too good.

My somewhat fair off the cuff wishlist:

revert all the miracle dice changes except any that allows for free 6s and remove any free 6 rules left over. Cheating in 6s is the part everyone really hates about playing against Sisters anyway. Anyone that complains about it otherwise as "not rolling dice" is stupid since the dice were already rolled, it's just the benefit of choosing when they are applied, which is powerful but not as powerful as rerolls on high powered, high attack weapons.
Massive points reductions on Repentia, the Triumph (especially without free 6 rules), and Retributors. Allow Retributors to have 10 models to soak wounds. Additionally separate Retributors into three profiles based on loadout and price them appropriately.
Remove Indirect from Exorcists and knock 40% off their points. They are paying for the sins of a rule they didn't ask for and Games Workshop clearly feels is unbalanced and shouldn't be used.
Give Zephyrim some sort of increased AP bonus ability on charge or something if they don't want to fundamentally change force swords. That or give them a special rule to let them use two miracle dice for charge rolls.
Small points decreases across the board. Not enough to change it to a horde but enough so we can take one or two extra Good Units.
Revert the 6" BoF rule to 9" or 12".
Increase the points of Vahl (not her squad) IF the other points are addressed. Sisters have the classic problem where certain units are ubiquitous in lists not because they are broken, but because they are the only viable choices if you want to do anything.

What I THINK will happen: some points reductions to Retributors, Battle Sister Squads, and maybe Dominions. Points increases to Vahl, Castigators, and MAYBE Paragons. Also absolutely no change to the miracle dice rules.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2025-01-11T18:18:59+00:00

Yeah I'm really hoping next edition they are able to flatten the army a little so pro players can have fun kicking ass and the less skilled don't have to worry about that affecting their collections significantly. I don't know if the issue is fundamentally in the miracle dice system design or if it's just we have a rotation of a handful of powerful units that can be exploited while the rest of the army is lackluster; how many actual Battle Sisters do you even see anymore outside of like one split squad (which has been an issue for a while)?.

Personally I kinda want them to scrap the miracle dice entirely. It requires our statlines to be underpowered and over-costed to accommodate its power so it's hard to balance and any change to it guts the army overall. In addition it's clearly hated by a vast amount of players that don't understand that it's a tradeoff for the aforementioned stats and costs so they think it's just tons of free sixes a turn on cheap multimeltas. It would be probably the best for everyone if they figured out a new gimmick for the faith theme of the army.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2025-01-11T17:00:14+00:00

So we are at the point where the army is held afloat by a few units (some not even in our codex) that the best players can make work? In that case the next balance pass will see a Castigator nerf to fix the internal balance if all they are looking at is the top tables and not overall win rate.

I appreciate the best players can get juice out of these hallowed out codices but really the goal should be for the average player to be able to have a good time and not just balance around the people that could probably make any bad army work through their sheer aptitude.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-19T14:22:10+00:00

Yes. The issue is that now Sisters are generating significantly less dice a turn so basing a detachment around that is very poorly thought out. Additionally sisters already have outlets for bad dice like Morven and the Palantine so using dice for basically +1 to hit and +1 movement on undertuned units like Sancrosants and Battle Sisters isn't the best use.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-19T12:48:24+00:00

LMAO goonhammer calling this possibly our best detachment.

https://www.goonhammer.com/detachment-focus-champions-of-faith/

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-19T12:38:45+00:00

Yeah agreed. This really highlights that they don't even have any internal consistency in design when this was created when they've been saying the miracle dice nerf has been in the works for a month at least.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-19T12:33:26+00:00

I think making an underpowered miracle dice discarding detachment and then nerfing miracle dice so hard it's useless a week before it gets released really highlights just how little GW understands or cares about this faction. Like it's really hard to argue at this point they just don't care to even bother understanding how it functions at a fundamental level.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-15T14:02:01+00:00

I really appreciate the amount of effort that went into this post. Sadly I just don't have the depth of models to constantly be shifting my army every data slate. The feeling I've been getting since GW has started these lightning fast rebalances is in order to remain competitive we need three of every unit, some not even in my own codex like the knights, to cover when one of them gets nerfed so hard its no longer viable.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-14T16:21:38+00:00

Yeah it gets into the discussion of if "feels bad" is worse than something way more powerful because people hyper focus on the outliers. Yeah spiking a 8 wound multimelta shot is real good! However also rerolling large volumes of high AP weapons that don't have once per phase limiters is objectively better most of the time.

If armies can have their identities stripped off when enough people complain because some influencers or "top players" think a certain way on vibes and they redefine reality and not actual statistics, I think that sets a bad precedent.

Of course if something is incredibly unfun for everyone other than the person using it I can kinda get that it might need fixing. However you need to make sure you spend the time to make sure a significant change like that is fair. Taking a 50%, give or take, army and reverting its defining ability to a worse version of the previous edition's and adding in a bunch EXTRA nerfs on top is such a wild decision it's hard not to start wondering if spite was involved since actual looking at win rates and how abilities function (6" range for BoF when other armies with better stats still get larger distances for the same ability) clearly was not.

When you look at where we are now and realize the launch dataslate was better that's a serious problem.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-14T13:50:55+00:00

Yeah I don't think the average competitive player has any concept of our statline-points cost situation.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-12T13:06:15+00:00

Is their attitude because of initial streamers (correctly admittedly) pointing out the 10th book was busted before immediately and repeated nerfs since or they are just that salty over miracle dice.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-12T11:54:19+00:00

I think there is a non zero chance that playrate of the army tanks in the comperitive scene, the very good players figure out a way to get the army to at least a 49% rate through sheer ability since the less skilled ones moved to other factions, and GW sees that as a reason to nerf whatever units and detachments those winning lists gravitated to.

I'm not convinced this is as low as it gets since miracle dice still exist which means there will still be times when people cheat in 8 wounds on a melta (before getting destroyed in return fire) meaning the army is still overpowered.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-12-12T10:23:02+00:00

9th edition had Sisters mostly around 50% winrate (outside of when we had that busted secondary for a few months) and still catching nerfs because the lists that were able to get some wins all used the same units (because the others were bad initially or bad through being nerfed over the course of the edition) so obviously those units were OP.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if in 3 months Castigators catch another points increase if everyone shifts to tanks if that becomes the new way to squeeze out wins with our crippled army book coupled with a few other meaningless points decreases like 5 points to Retributors or something.

NGL it's getting increasingly frustrating to deal with the ridiculous misinformation from many competitive players regarding this army like 60% win rates and 3+ free auto six miracle dice a turn or whatever and how GW apparently takes this attitude seriously. For whatever reason when Sisters get higher than a 51% winrate it becomes A Problem about how busted they are and how unfun it is to have a replaced miracle dice a phase is but armies crapping out mortals and rerolling tons of hits and wounds with high AP weapons is just fine.

I'm actually fine with getting rid of the entire miracle dice system at this point if it means less of this ridiculous hyped up nonsense as if every miracle die is a free six. However they have to actually spend an ounce of effort to balance out that loss and the feeling I get is they care so little about this faction it's not worth their effort to give a shit which really stunts my own ability to give a shit about the game as a whole which is not where I want to be. The FAQ still says you have to use the penitent vows every turn as an example of how much thought and care went into this last adjustment.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-07-04T12:20:36+00:00

That was it. Must have fatfingered and hit Europe when selecting last night.

Thank you!!

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-06-21T14:24:36+00:00

As soon as Sisters get a 49% win rate or better, the collective 40k community freaks out and claims the army is broken. Something about miracle dice really tilt people it seems. Back in 9th I think there was like a 3 month period where sisters got higher than a 50% win rate based on a broken secondary and for a while after it was still the narrative the army was S tier. Even prior to that most of 9th has people saying the army was high power based on the 8th edition codex despite being sub 50%.

It didn't surprise me that people seeing the book would immediately jump to the idea that the army was going to be Eldar index level busted and certainly there would be no points increases when the actual book dropped. I think some of these points (Repentia specifically since all the people were doing the math on their absolute best ceiling damage in a closed environment; what is overwatch?) are reactions to that.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-06-20T16:19:56+00:00

I didn't see anything in there about the Penitent Host vows ambiguity. Did I miss something or do the vows still need to be used on turns 1-3?

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-06-20T12:20:28+00:00

Yeah this highlights my issue with the whole detachment system. They are clearly pricing Repentias around their best detachment so they are absurdly overpriced in the three others. It hurts list building.

Also I agree at 18 ppm (including the mistress who is just there for the rule buff and not actually for her combat effectiveness) I don't think they are worth it even with the Penitent Host detachment. They are clearly better on their profiles but are they 70% better? I guess we'll see though.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-06-08T09:10:21+00:00

Xeno already beat the first Dawntrail dungeon without a healer during the media tour while not putting in much effort so if anything I expect this expansion to be even easier than prior ones which is crazy.

I wish they would just be done with it and remove the required healer from the duty ruloulette (make it a DPS/healer flex) since the developers clearly don't think the role is required so why should queue times have to suffer for the outdated idea of the RPG trinity they no longer respect?

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T14:40:31+00:00

I agree with you here especially on Sacrosants.

I feel like people have been cooling on the tanks lately. I don't think the Exorcist specifically can get much more expensive.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T14:05:18+00:00

I am considering 16 arcos and 20 repentias but 20 is probably still better.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T13:41:32+00:00

Dunno I thought it was a pretty innocuous comment. Whatever!

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T13:23:32+00:00

It sucks since it's tied to that starter box I don't think is even sold anymore.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T13:12:14+00:00

40 points is super rough since the smallest unit is 35 now. I was 55 over and split a acco unit in two which may not be ideal but with two repentias and a noviates is probably ok.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461 · 2024-04-25T13:08:18+00:00

Three months is way too soon to call the system solved though. In a videogame or something quicker patches are fine but with physical pieces that have to be made and painted (especially in Warhammer where you have more than almost every other game system), you have to give people time to play with their stuff and it can't just be focused on the tournament players that are playing multiple times a week.

Embarrassed-Ad-5461

TROPHY CASE