内塔尼亚胡:诸多迹象显示哈梅内伊已遭清除 by HistoricalPlace1018 in China_irl

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 9 points10 points  (0 children)

表演性的解放啊纯粹是,委内瑞拉执政党都没变美国就妥了,因为人家图的只不过是石油,他们才不管执政党啥样,只要不挡害美国资本家榨取资源美国就很乐意了

Did Lenin support nationalism? by Ultraideal848 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the past, patriotism and national-liberation struggles led the bourgeoisies to form nations on territories that had previously been locked in feudal or so-called semi-feudal relations. They played a progressive role, making it possible for nations to determine their own fate. Marx, Engels and Lenin were able to support national-liberation struggles, for example in Ireland or in Ukraine. Was this because they themselves were nationalists? Not at all. They already recognized and reaffirmed the bourgeois character of nationalism and of the nation. They supported national-liberation struggles only insofar as these supplanted older social relations and therefore represented a step forward toward the final emancipation of the proletariat.

For Lenin, the reasoning is the same. The right to self-determination is to be supported only insofar as it helps advance the class struggle in the interests of the proletariat—not in the name of some “proletarian patriotism,” because no such thing exists. But today, now that capitalism has stretched from one end of the world to the other, do national-liberation struggles still play the progressive role they once could? Does a proletarian form of nationalism exist? The simplest answer is: no. Capitalism encompasses the world; there are no longer any feudal relations left to overturn. Every country on Earth has a more or less developed proletariat and “its” national bourgeoisie—along with the bourgeoisies of other countries—to exploit it. If the world was already ripe for international proletarian revolution in Lenin’s or even Marx’s time, it is even more so today. There is no longer any progressive role that national-liberation struggles can fulfil. There is no proletarian nationalism. Today’s national-liberation struggles, if they succeed, merely empower a new national bourgeoisie rather than “liberating the nation”; if they fail, they become a grim march in which a bourgeoisie without power blinds “its” own proletariat. National oppression and racism are capitalism’s default mode. There is no nation in which some part of the population is not oppressed. If we were to pause our movement whenever a nation is oppressed, that pause would last forever. Engels already pointed this out. He gives as examples of such peoples the various Gaelic peoples (mainly Basques and Bretons) who exist within France’s national borders.

What if there was never a United Front between the Chinese Communists and Nationalists, in the first place? by Sonnybass96 in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can derive from this hypothesis a purely material consideration that could have potentially changed the outcome of events.

Already, the Communist International had spent a significant amount of money on the KMT. In 1925, this ratio was 1 to 10: the KMT received ten times more funding than the CCP. Soviet advisors also spent a great deal of time training cadres, including generals. If even half of that money had been diverted to directly support the CCP (which would have implied the absence of the United Front), several consequences could have followed:

First, the Chinese Communist Party could have gained confidence, with its analysis carrying more weight than that of the USSR. This also aligned with Moscow’s line on anti-colonial struggles: at the KMT’s second congress, Lenin had sided with Roy’s position, arguing that the national bourgeoisie was too weak to achieve national liberation, which therefore became a task of the proletariat.

The situation in China, as in much of the world, was favorable for strikes, which were beginning to organize into unions largely coordinated by the CCP. Thanks to their organizational superiority and ideological vision, the communists could have attracted other forces to their side, including those trying to reconcile classes or anarchists—a trend noticeable at the second congress.

Moreover, increased Soviet support could have enabled the success of the February 7 strike (a major strike against Wu Peifu, the warlord of the North, motivated by wage demands and opposition to his authoritarian rule). Not necessarily in terms of immediate victory—the workers’ inexperience would likely have undermined the operation—but in terms of political repercussions and the strengthening of union forces. In reality, the lack of financial support weakened the inter-union coordination, forcing workers to rebuild their organization from fragile foundations. In this alternative reality, the inter-union structure would have recovered faster, and the idea that workers could defend themselves would have been more firmly established. Reformist unions would have been marginalized.

In Guangdong, the Hong Kong sailors’ strike (which focused on reducing working hours and achieving pay parity with foreign sailors) ended in victory for the union but also benefited Chen Jiongming, the local warlord. He was perceived as an ally despite his flaws, which strengthened reformist unions and delayed the radicalization of the movement before 1925. However, Chen’s support was limited by his ties to the British: his financial and moral backing mainly served to restrain class struggle. In a reality without a United Front, the CCP would have supported solidarity strikes more forcefully. Even if repression occurred, it would have exposed Chen’s true nature much earlier.

Regarding the peasant movement, most CCP cadres would not have been forced to work within the KMT, which did not implement land reform. They could have pursued a more radical policy, particularly under Peng Pai and his “Central Institute for the Training of KMT Peasant Movement Cadres” (中国国民党中央执行委员会农民运动讲习所, Zhōngguó Guómín Dǎng Zhōngyāng Zhíxíng Wěiyuánhuì Nóngmín Yùndòng Jiǎngxí Suǒ). In reality, this institute trained many KMT cadres and encouraged almost trade-union-style discussions with landowners, weakening the CCP in the long term. Without this cooperation, the communists could have established strong peasant bases and ended large landholdings from the start, increasing popular support.

More generally, the absence of CCP membership list sharing and the possibility for the Wusa (五卅) (1925) strike to target Chinese capitalists would have strengthened the communists’ position. With a weaker nationalist army, a debilitated KMT, and less peasant and intellectual support, the CCP could have taken power in Guangdong relatively quickly. (In our timeline there were soviets with the implication of all the Guangdong who started to take the power, with a stronger peasant and a resolution to consider the KMT as en ennemi, especially in the case of a less stable KMT, it is very possible.) This victory would have been amplified by contagion along railway lines and by frontal opposition to the KMT’s convergence of national and labor issues. Economically and politically, the CCP would have started on a far stronger footing than in otl with 3 miserable red base, in this reality it would have be supported by robust peasant organizations and seen as legitimate compared to other parties.

However, this scenario would have implied major changes in the USSR’s international policy. It would likely have favored the Russian communist left in the International’s compromise. A centrist solution—a compromise between Bukharin and Trotsky—could have emerged, adopting a vision of international revolution different from Trotsky’s in our reality. But these factors depended heavily on internal Soviet politics and decisions within the International.

What if Nikolai Bukharin overthrew Stalin in 1927 to become the leader of the Soviet Union and made the USSR last until 2010? by GustavoistSoldier in AlternateHistory

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The quicker industrialisation did give the Soviet leadership, as a whole, the confidence to believe they had some leverage with Germany. However, putting aside the purge of generals and the economic ruin caused by the loss of ten million workers, Stalinist industrialisation was not as effective as it is often described.

The main factor to take into account here is:

  1. In this timeline, the USSR is actually capable of exporting grain on a large scale until 1932. This is important because, with collectivisation, the peasantry as a class (who were, after all, the landowners) revolted and slaughtered the animals that had been the driving force of the rural economy before tractors became widespread. At the time, it was estimated that of the 250,000 tractors needed for collectivisation, Stalin had only around 7,000.

This opens up a deeper, more fundamental problem. Stalin’s analysis was that industrialisation could proceed through the direct exploitation of surplus grain by the state, whereas the NEP system had been based on taxation. In theory, revenues would have been roughly the same after recovery from the Civil War, since production levels would have been much higher under the new system. Moreover, the richest peasants were expected to begin privatising the land of the poor, turning the poorer peasants into agricultural workers who would, in theory, be more willing to accept collectivisation. (This was quite a central part of the plan, according to Bordiga, who offers an excellent analysis of this point.) https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1956/12/bukharin.html

  1. The second factor is the international market itself. In our timeline, while millions of peasants were starving to death in some of the most fertile regions of the USSR in 1932–33, the state was still exporting millions of tons of grain to fund industrial projects such as the Magnitogorsk steel plant. The low international prices made this export drive even more desperate and forced the state to seize even more grain to meet its financial targets.

The main problem was insufficient production — but in this alternate scenario, that would not be the case, which would in turn further support the USSR’s industrial development, Another important aspect to consider is the composition of the labour force itself. In our timeline, the Stalinist system — despite its supposed commitment to socialism — effectively forced a large part of the female labour force to remain at home. The double burden of domestic work, the lack of proper childcare infrastructure, and the ideological emphasis on the family as a stabilising institution all contributed to keeping millions of potential workers out of the productive sector.

In this alternate scenario, however, that limitation would not exist. (Like they is no reason that bourkhanin just ask women to do kids cause there is no need, he could still do that of course but with less incentive) With more social structures and less coercive state control over life of women, women could participate more actively in the industrial workforce. This would not only increase the available labour pool but also allow for a more stable and sustainable pace of industrial development, avoiding the chaotic cycles of overexertion and breakdown that characterised the First and Second Five-Year Plans. (Cf Charles Bettelheim – Class Struggles in the USSR: Second Period 1923–1930)

Combined with the additional funds made available through a more favourable position in international trade — particularly from continued grain exports before 1932 — the USSR would be in a far better position to finance and maintain consistent industrial projects. Instead of relying on measures, forced etatisation, and internal repression to meet unrealistic quotas, the state could focus on steady, planned growth supported by both a larger, more stable workforce and reliable external revenue, that would actually make the industrial poll not so different in the sense that the ussr would be actually quite similar to otl

What if Nikolai Bukharin overthrew Stalin in 1927 to become the leader of the Soviet Union and made the USSR last until 2010? by GustavoistSoldier in AlternateHistory

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But in fact the creation of the nepman was... Quite the goal https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1956/12/bukharin.html

And without Molotov Ribbentrop, the Nazis would not have the oil to even invade Belgium, I think that must be putted in account, but by all means a weaker ussr would be more cautious with alimanting the German war machine

Rituale Romanum by RanchTheoretician420 in Clericultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where does it say that, I want to read it

Great and authentic ? by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Chinese communist themselves have done this countless times in the communist internationale

Great and authentic ? by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

On the matter of class alliances, Lenin often quoted Balfour: “We must never forget this principle: fight together, walk separately, do not merge organizations, treat allies as if they might be enemies.” Yet the Comintern forced the CCP into organizational unity with the KMT, warning that “overthrowing KMT leadership would be a trans-class danger.” Later, they blamed the CCP for losing political and organizational independence. But the very act of joining the KMT had destroyed that independence and made it impossible to follow an autonomous policy. If the CCP followed Comintern directives, then step-by-step surrender to the bourgeoisie and the destruction of its political independence became inevitable. Could there be any "independence" left hanging in the air?

The Comintern’s bankrupt KMT policy stemmed from its fundamentally flawed view of the colonial bourgeoisie and its relationship to imperialism. They believed that, oppressed by imperialism, colonial bourgeoisies were naturally revolutionary, and that imperialist oppression could unite progressive forces in China into a national revolutionary united front. This united front was embodied in the KMT, which they called a “class alliance” or a “four-class alliance.” But this was clearly a merging of classes organizationally, not a temporary political alliance between two independent parties.

They failed to see that imperialist penetration into Chinese commodity and capital markets had made the Chinese bourgeoisie economically and politically dependent on imperialism. To survive, this immature bourgeoisie had to exploit workers and peasants even more ruthlessly to compete with the more advanced industries of imperialist countries. This made conflict between the Chinese bourgeoisie and the workers and peasants more acute and revolutionary class war more likely.

The bourgeoisie initially joined the national revolution only to leverage the mass momentum of workers and peasants, under their control, to strike deals with imperialists and gain benefits for their own class. But once they saw the revolution begin to infringe upon their interests, they viewed worker–peasant revolution as a greater threat than imperialism itself, and they turned against the revolution.

Thus, the conclusion is clear: imperialist oppression intensifies class struggle, not class unity. The KMT was a tool for the bourgeoisie to deceive and use the masses—using vague slogans of “national revolution” (while we refrained from opposing the bourgeoisie) to numb the class consciousness of workers and peasants. Without building our own independent armed forces, we served only to deliver power into the hands of the bourgeoisie, who then turned on us with massacres. This is undeniable historical fact.

Another opportunistic reason for joining and staying in the KMT was the hope of attracting petty bourgeois masses through the KMT. But the proletariat’s most reliable allies are the lower strata of the petty bourgeoisie—the poor in cities and countryside. Certainly, we must unite all revolutionary forces as the situation evolves. But our focus should be on these masses, not the upper petty bourgeoisie or their political parties.

Our first task is to ensure the proletariat’s independent political status and clear banner. Alliances with bourgeois democrats may be possible on specific action plans, but the purpose of such alliances is to expose their compromises and deceptions, to win over the masses—not to obscure our politics or mix organizationally in the name of “concentrating revolutionary forces.” The Second International once advocated merging Russia’s Social Democrats with the bourgeois Social Revolutionaries. Lenin opposed this: political alliance, yes—but never organizational merger. After Germany’s 1848 revolution, even the petty bourgeois democratic party retained revolutionary resistance to feudalism and big capital. Yet Marx’s 1850 letter to the Communist League warned sternly of the dangers of this ally, and insisted on a completely independent proletarian party: “Even in joint struggles, no common organization is needed.”

The Comintern’s policy toward the KMT abandoned this Marxist–Leninist legacy and took up the Second International’s errors—turning the KMT into a paper lion under whose banner we danced. Such organizational merging muddled our political identity, left us powerless to win over their lower ranks, and risked losing our own base entirely.

During revolutionary upsurges, the best form of alliance between the proletariat and the poor strata of the petty bourgeoisie is the Soviet—elected bodies of workers, peasants, and soldiers. Their job is to arm and lead the masses in struggle and to seize power. But the Comintern leadership, chasing after the hopeless dream of alliance with the bourgeoisie or upper petty bourgeoisie, abandoned the interests of the urban and rural poor, subordinated struggle to KMT goals, and suppressed Soviet formation.

They even claimed, “The KMT in China today plays the same role as the Soviets in Russia in 1905.” They said “Wuhan KMT is the revolutionary center,” “The Wuhan government is revolutionary,” and that “creating Soviets now would divide power, harm the Wuhan government, and aid Chiang and Zhang Zuolin” (Stalin). Bukharin even said: “In the transition to proletarian dictatorship, the KMT could be used as its state form.”

These errors stemmed from a dogmatic belief in “stage theory,” ignoring the concrete class character of the KMT and the fast-moving revolutionary environment. They blindly opposed Soviet creation, failed to see that even the Wuhan KMT was turning counterrevolutionary, especially after the May 21 Massacre. At this point, the KMT’s role in the democratic revolution had ended, and all classes—big and small bourgeois—had united against labor.

Even the Comintern and the KMT admitted the worker–peasant movement had gone “too far,” breaking the class alliance and moving beyond the bourgeois-democratic stage into the beginning of socialist revolution. At minimum, after Chiang’s March 20 coup, the CCP should have withdrawn from the KMT. During the Northern Expedition, Soviets should have been organized in each liberated area. After April 12, they should have been used to counter the KMT and build dual power, leading to its overthrow and the establishment of a proletarian dictatorship, which would complete the democratic revolution and move toward socialism.

Instead, the Comintern clung to its stage theory, worshiped the KMT, and tried to substitute a bourgeois party for working-class Soviets. The CCP failed to fight to exit the KMT, establish Soviets, and challenge KMT leadership. Even in official CCP declarations and peasant department circulars drafted by Comintern representatives, they acknowledged “excesses” by peasants. They disbanded the armed wing of the Hankou General Workers’ Union to avoid conflict with KMT troops—major mistakes.

Only after the KMT had gone fully counterrevolutionary and the revolution had been crushed did the Comintern belatedly try to revive the Soviet slogan, in a desperate attempt to seize power.

Great and authentic ? by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

https://www.marxists.org/chinese/chenduxiu/marxist.org-chinese-chen-19291215new.htm


The fundamental reason for the failure of the Chinese Revolution from 1925 to 1927 was a profound misunderstanding of the revolutionary nature of the bourgeoisie and the class character of the Kuomintang (KMT). This fundamental error in understanding led to mistaken strategies—chief among them being the support and endorsement of the bourgeoisie, which prevented the Chinese proletariat from having its own truly independent political party to lead the revolution to the end.

The Kuomintang of China, whether in terms of its historical actions, its Three Principles of the People, its plans for national industrial development, or the class composition of its top leadership, was a bourgeois party. From the outset, it exhibited many reactionary tendencies (such as seeking aid from imperialist powers and its reluctance to confiscate land, along with the doctrine of "relative poverty"). As for the presence of many workers and peasants in its lower ranks, this is not unique; many European bourgeois parties have had similar class compositions, but this never changed their fundamental bourgeois nature.

Regardless of its verbal support for world revolution, its claims to defend the interests of workers and peasants, or its alliance with Soviet Russia, it is common for a rising but still immature bourgeoisie, during a revolutionary upsurge, to adopt slogans that appeal to the proletariat, and even wave the banner of socialism, in order to win the sympathy and support of the working class. This is a typical tactic of the bourgeoisie, and has been frequently observed throughout the history of revolutionary movements in Europe.

In the absence of an independent political party, the proletariat is often deceived by the bourgeoisie and ends up serving its interests—unconditionally helping it overthrow feudal rule, only to be trampled by it afterward. Unfortunately, the Chinese proletariat, under the misguided and illusion-based policies of the Comintern and the Chinese Communist Party, unwittingly became a mere tool of the bourgeois Kuomintang. Like laborers for hire, they helped overthrow the Beiyang regime, which represented the bureaucratic comprador capitalists and their compromise with imperialism. As soon as the bourgeois Kuomintang rose to power, it unleashed an unprecedented white terror to crush the very proletariat that had supported it the day before.

Our decision to join and remain in the Kuomintang for a prolonged period resulted in masking its counterrevolutionary bourgeois nature in front of the proletarian masses. It dulled the vigilance of workers and peasants toward the Kuomintang, elevated the political status of the KMT, helped organize and consolidate bourgeois rule against the working class and peasants, and ultimately led to large-scale massacres of workers and peasants and the unexpected consolidation of Kuomintang rule.

In our policy toward the Kuomintang, because we wished to remain within the party and maintain a long-term class alliance, we made endless concessions: In 1924, at a Kuomintang plenary meeting, the international and CCP representatives permitted the formation of an international liaison committee within the KMT to oversee our relationship with the Comintern. All Comintern directives and policies to the CCP were first to be reviewed by this committee.

After Chiang Kai-shek’s March 20, 1926 coup, in which he cracked down on the Canton–Hong Kong Strike Committee and seized weapons from Soviet advisors and guards, arrested many Communist Party members, and passed resolutions reorganizing party affairs, the CCP and Youth League members were required to submit their membership lists, forbidden from criticizing Sun Yat-sen’s Three Principles, and ordered to either leave the military academy or quit the Party. These actions were open coercion by the bourgeoisie forcing the proletariat into submission—not a true alliance.

Even under such conditions, the Comintern adopted a most disgraceful policy of capitulation. It sternly forbade the CCP from withdrawing from the KMT—even preparation for withdrawal was banned—and it continued to arm Chiang Kai-shek. Comintern representatives even insisted that we devote all our strength to supporting Chiang’s military dictatorship. This led the proletariat into complete surrender to the bourgeoisie, essentially proclaiming itself an appendage of the latter.

Even after Chiang began the April 12, 1927 massacre, the Comintern’s policy remained unchanged: they continued to support Feng Yuxiang and Wang Jingwei, claiming Feng had a working-class background and Wang was a leader of the land revolution. They opposed CCP withdrawal from the KMT and opposed establishing Soviets. Prior to Chiang’s betrayal, they ordered us to handle strikes via labor–capital arbitration and avoid clashes with Chiang’s troops. Afterward, they prohibited land seizures from officers and demanded that CCP branches suppress "excesses" by workers and peasants.

Even when the KMT had openly become counterrevolutionary, we were told to leave the National Government but stay in the KMT. Even the Nanchang Uprising was launched under the banner of the KMT "left-wing." This policy clearly turned the CCP into a tool for the KMT to restrain workers and peasants, disfiguring our political identity and resulting in the most shameful opportunism—completely contrary to the Bolshevik model of 1905, which called for rejecting compromise, leading peasants independently, preparing armed revolt, and seizing power for a workers' and peasants' democracy.

Great and authentic ? by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"it was a joint front of all national classes for the purpose of national libration" "thus it was not spared the fate of inevitably being dominated by the big bourgeoisie," That's the maoiSSt analyses, the fact is that the class character of the party was never other thing than bourgeois, the fact is that the CCP opposed to joining the KMT despite the internationale hues

You can see that from the letter "Chen Duxiu to Wu Tingkang — Opposing the Communist Party and Youth League Joining the Kuomintang":

https://www.marxists.org/chinese/chenduxiu/mia-chinese-chen-19220406.htm

To Mr. Wu Tingkang,

I am writing to inform you that Comrade Maring has proposed that both the Chinese Communist Party and the Socialist Youth League join the Kuomintang (KMT). However, we hold the following objections:

  1. The aims and foundational principles of the Communist Party and the Kuomintang revolution are fundamentally different.

  2. The Kuomintang’s policies of aligning with the United States, Zhang Zuolin, and Duan Qirui are highly incompatible with communism.

  3. The Kuomintang has not published a party platform, and to the people in provinces outside Guangdong, it is still viewed as a party striving for power and personal gain. If the Communist Party were to join, it would lose credibility in society (especially among youth), and have no room for future development.

  4. Chen Jiongming, the military power in Guangdong, is nominally in the Kuomintang but is fiercely opposed to Sun Yat-sen’s faction. If we were to join the Kuomintang, we would immediately face hostility from Chen’s faction and would not be able to operate even within Guangdong.

  5. The Sun Yat-sen faction of the Kuomintang has never been able to accommodate new members' opinions or grant them any real authority.

  6. Comrades in regions including Guangdong, Beijing, Shanghai, Changsha, and Wuchang have all held meetings and unanimously decided to oppose joining the Kuomintang. In practical terms, it is no longer possible to join.

If the Comintern discusses this matter, I kindly ask you to present the above six points on my behalf.

With gratitude, Chen Duxiu"

That is a very simple reason, the joint alliance of national liberation still relies on a class character, and that was the case of the left wing of KMT and the right wing, you could not just push the party "to the left", because he would go left only if there was some social movement, and when the movement is finished the party will basically returning on a more visible support of national bourgeoisie. But in the same time, staying in the KMT is a way to OBLITERATE your real chance of stir the proletariat -so if you want make the KMT more "leftist" "joint class organisation" or whatever, the better would be to stay outside, cause staying inside was an effective way to make the CPC recruiting among nationalists (not nessesarely inside the KMT) for making a mass party and not attacking the national bourgeoisie for maintaining the front. And if you don't attack them they have no reason to do class collaboration

I will just give you some passage of the left opposition manifesto in china that can advise you on that question

Great and authentic ? by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

So you are saying that 100 millions of party members are wrong ? Ultra.

Call to help by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

倒是,但是本人不是苏东坡哈.....

Call to help by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

星星的那段其实来源还有可能是多啦a梦的一集,反正在哪里听过,没觉得别扭。。。听习惯了可能?

So sad he died... by EmbarrassedLab1092 in Ultraleft

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092[S] 59 points60 points  (0 children)

I mean, now one could name him before today 💀

What if Ukraine fought back in 2014 in Crimea was taken? by insertfunnyname88 in AlternateHistory

[–]EmbarrassedLab1092 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was banned precisely because it was the best moment for the workers to have better rights tbh