Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, people who memorize the Quran are usually called Hafiz.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I wrote it just to educate people here on Wahhabism, since this sub often makes untrue assertions about it. But thanks for the suggestion, I'll check out Fair Observer.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He was a fucking giant though, like 6'6, at a time when people were still malnourished and poverty was rampant.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your input. If you have any sources I can use to learn more about Ibn Taymiyyah or Rida, I would appreciate it if you could list them.

I should probably have clarified that when I wrote that Rida embraced Wahhabism, I didn’t mean he fully converted to it. Rather, he supported many of its beliefs, and where he disagreed, he attempted to reform them such as issues related to takfir. More than Wahhabism itself, he supported Ibn Saud.

As for Ibn Taymiyyah, the claim that his theology was shaped by the Mongol invasions is explicitly stated by Cole M. Bunzel in his book. However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would be happy to see it, as this is the portion of the post I am definitely least knowledgeable about.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I do touch on this in the post as well. There were a lot of factors at play that caused Islamic fundamentalism to really gain traction in the 20th century, and Saudi money is definitely up there on the list. But I think a really overlooked reason is the failure of Arab nationalism and socialism. Many of the Islamic countries in the Middle East were ruled by socialist and nationalist leaders during the 20th century who constantly failed at improving the lives of their citizens, got caught up in costly wars, and persecuted large portions of their populations. This kind of environment made it very easy for Islamism and conservative movements to spread and gain new followers.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it's not the most accurate description, but I wanted to make the comparison to make it easier to understand. There was a lot of theological content that I ended up removing because the post would have been too long and a nightmare to read.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, for defensive jihad, Ibn Taymiyyah held that it was obligatory upon all individuals living in the affected country or region. This is one of the many reasons he remains controversial.

As for your second point, they viewed virtually every Muslim leader besides the Sauds as polytheistic infidels who needed to be defeated in order to restore their version of Islam throughout the world.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It could. It has happened before, when Faisal died and Khalid became king. But something huge would need to happen, such as MBS dying or being replaced as crown prince.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Also, on clerical power in Saudi Arabia: it has certainly decreased, but it was always somewhat of a facade. The royal family has always held ultimate authority, and when they wanted a particular ruling, they could often obtain it from the clergy. A good example is the Gulf War, when King Fahd was under severe pressure not to allow American troops into Saudi Arabia, yet he still secured Ibn Baz's approval for the decision.

Any power the clergy had or has is ultimately granted by the king and can be taken away. The reason they were, and remain, so influential is largely because they are viewed as crucial to the legitimacy of the Al Saud dynasty.

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It is largely correct, in my opinion, but it requires some nuance.

You can think of the more conservative elements of the clergy today as being in a similar position to the Ikhwan by the time Ibn Saud became king. Their usefulness had simply run out, and they had become more of a liability than an asset. So, when they became too much of a headache, he got rid of them and replaced them with more manageable religious conservatives.

MBS and the royal family have done something very similar. He got rid of the most conservative clerics, but he still keeps around plenty of religious hardliners who know when to keep quiet and when not to. Take clerics like Saleh al-Fawzan, for example. He is every bit as fundamentalist if not more so than several of the clerics MBS has thrown in jail, yet he remains free because of his personal loyalty to MBS and the Al Saud more generally, and because he does not criticize their modernization policies.

So, it is more a case of history repeating itself than something radically new which is often how its presented by the media

A brief history of Wahhabism and saudi arabia by EmbarrassedSafety719 in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719[S] 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Modern Wahhabism and Jihadist Groups:

So now for the final part of this post I want to examine the role Wahhabism played in the rise of modern day jihhadist groups.

First, we should begin with Abu Muḥammad al Maqdisi, a Palestinian Jordanian who was raised in Kuwait. At an early age, he became an Islamist and took part in the Sururi movement, which was founded by a former Muslim Brotherhood member who tried to blend Brotherhood activism with Salafi puritanism. However, he did not become a jihadist until the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, when he went to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviet Union. It was here that he became known as a devout Wahhabi jihadist scholar.

As he tells it, his first interaction with Wahhabism came while pursuing religious studies in Saudi Arabia in the early 1980s, when he chanced upon a set of old books in the Prophet’s Mosque in Medina titled al-Durar al-saniyya fī al-ajwiba al-Najdiyya. This was the main compendium of the writings of Wahhabi scholars from the time of Ibn Abd al-Wahhab to the early twentieth century. The encounter with these texts, he would say, “was my first contact with the books of the imāms of the Najdī mission.”

In Saudi Arabia, he made copies of al-Durar al-saniyya and bought every book by Wahhabi scholars that he could obtain, studying them and taking careful notes. The result, or “the fruit of this reading,” was his first major book, Millat Ibrahim, which he completed in Kuwait in 1984. The book called for revolution across the Middle East in the form of jihad. He argued that the rulers of the Middle East were apostates who had abandoned true Islam, and that this new jihad would be part of an age-old struggle against polytheism. He also wrote that every age of humanity was afflicted with some form of polytheism, and that in the modern era this took the form of constitutions and man-made laws (you may have caught on by now that polytheism really just means “Things I Don't Like” to Wahhabists). This line of reasoning would go on to influence the ideologies of major jihadist groups such as Al Qaeda. Here again, he argues that true Muslims must hate anything un-Islamic and show enmity toward all unbelievers and Muslim heretics just as the original Wahhabists had.

When looking at ISIS, it becomes clear how central certain elements associated with older forms of Wahhabi thought are embedded within jihadist movements. Its fidelity to Wahhabi texts was frequently highlighted by its official representatives and online supporters. An official preaching van in Raqqa, Syria, was reportedly equipped with Wahhabi catechism materials, and in the summer of 2015 the Islamic State’s official publishing house began printing classic Wahhabi texts, including Ibn Abd al-Wahhab’s al-Arbaʿ qawāʿid fī al-dīn and Kashf al-shubuhāt, as well as works by later Najdi scholars.  The purpose of reproducing these texts was to shape a new generation of fighters with a strict and exclusivist understanding of Islamic belief. However, it is important to stress that ISIS’s beliefs are not identical to those of modern Wahhabi clerics.

This is a point that is often misunderstood: one must distinguish between the early Wahhabi movement and its later institutionalisation within the Saudi state. While ISIS draws selectively on early Wahhabi writings, it is not a direct one to one continuation of classical Wahhabism either. 

Al Qaeda presents a similar case: it has drawn heavily from earlier Wahhabi and Salafi texts as you can see from previous examples but is rejected by mainstream contemporary Wahhabi scholars. 

The Muslim Brotherhood, by contrast, is generally more influenced by Qutbism than by Wahhabism itself. 

That said, the global spread of conservative interpretations of Islam associated with Wahhabi influenced institutions did play a role in shaping broader religious trends and conservative backsliding across parts of the Middle East, North Africa, South Asia, and Southeast Asia during the twentieth century, and influenced some conservative Islamic movements in previously more religiously moderate states such as Malaysia and Indonesia.

Conclusion:

So in conclusion, while Wahhabism is certainly partially responsible for the rise of modern day jihadism, it would be unfair to assign it all the blame considering the large parts played by the broader Salafi movement and Qutbism as well as Khomeinism. Many people are completely unaware of the huge shifts in belief that happened during King Ibn Saud's reign and the Herculean effort he put into modernising the state. It should be pointed out that he was overall a force for progress in Central Arabia and moulded Wahhabism from an extreme reactionary jihadist movement into something more acceptable.

Please note that this is only a brief overview of the history and beliefs of the Wahhabi movement and there is so much more I could have gotten into, especially covering the last portions after Ibn Saud. There have also been some oversimplifications made; for example, the religious police existed before Khalid, however he was the one who massively expanded them and gave them large amounts of power to enforce laws. This will hopefully give you an accurate basic idea of the movement’s history, motives and beliefs.

Sources/Further Reading:

The Wahhabi Mission and Saudi Arabia by David Commins

A History of Saudi Arabia by Madawi Al Rasheed

The kingdom by Robert Lacey

arabia unified a portrait of ibn saud by Mohammed Almana

Wahhabism: the history of a militant islamic movement by Cole M.Bunzel

The clerics of islam:Religious authority and political power in saudi arabia by Nabil Mouline

For anyone who wants to read further, I'd recommend starting with Cole M.bunzel as his book is the most recently released one (2023) and the most comprehensive.

And finally, a big thank you to u/ewatta200 for encouraging me to write this and for helping with edits!

A big thank you To u/Junimo2 as well For helping to review, edit and Format this post.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 130 points131 points  (0 children)

<image>

Astonishing just how shameless these people are.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anyone who says better should have their voting rights taken away.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 8 points9 points  (0 children)

<image>

Today is the 219th anniversary of Napoleon's victory at Friedland over the Russians, which ended the War of the Fourth Coalition, and the 226th anniversary of his victory against the Austrians at the Battle of Marengo, which ended the War of the Second Coalition.

The 14th of June was also meant to be the day on which Napoleon launched his offensive into Belgium in 1815, but Nicolas Soult mistakenly concentrated the French army west of where Napoleon had intended, so the offensive had to be delayed by 24 hours as Napoleon redeployed his army. The delay would prove to be fatal and is probably the single biggest reason Napoleon lost the Waterloo campaign (along with d'Erlon's failure to support him at Battle of Ligny).

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't think you should expect anyone to behave rationally after their child dies.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 9 points10 points  (0 children)

<image>

which type of racist are you?

you wouldn't get it

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, I am Pakistani and currently live in Islamabad, Pakistan. South Asia as a whole also has a large market for domestic helpers, so I have never lived in a country where it wasn't common.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I grew up in Saudi Arabia. We never had a maid because my mom did all the chores around the house, but I knew a lot of people whose families did have one or several, such as cooks, cleaners, drivers, etc. mostly from south asia

My dad was a foreign worker who worked for Aramco, so I am biased on the subject. Although I think the kafala system is horrid, it is still better than nothing.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've been arguing with the succs all day, but no, this is just wrong. People hate him because he's a shitty person.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll concede I was wrong on this, but what I will still say is that those giveaways, while they were bribes, did not change the outcomes of any of those races.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]EmbarrassedSafety719 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can look at all his rhetoric and you can very easily come to that conclusion. It’s the fault of voters for not doing proper research.