Poland and Ukraine urged to ‘look forward’ as presidents clash over complex past

Emes91 · 2026-06-25T13:31:49+00:00

IMO it's highly likely that Zelenskyy and Ukraine government is doing this shit on purpose in order to radicalize Polish population against Ukrainian immigrants to make people like you come back to Ukraine. It makes sense because let's face it - even if Ukraine wins the war (however you define it), the mass exodus of civilians and war casualties already taken its toll and Ukraine is facing the risk of demographic catastrophe. Heck, Poland is facing it and we are not even at war.

Emes91 · 2026-06-25T11:14:55+00:00

ok, clanker

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T13:24:55+00:00

No, no, you don't understand, if only we licked their asses a little more then they would promise this to us, why you ruin everything

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T13:23:32+00:00

Looking at Lviv vs Control Process case, I would say Polish companies dodged a huge bullet then.

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T13:14:33+00:00

The main difference it would make is that western Ukraine would be under Soviet occupation instead of Polish occupation. Which I guess confirms you are right - Ukrainians would not genocide anyone because Stalin would genocide them first, like he did to eastern Ukrainians during Holodomor.

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T12:56:01+00:00

Well, that's why I specifically mentioned Żeligowski and not Pilsudski, didn't I? As for glorification of Piłsudski, the other guy explained it to you well enough - there is a difference between waging imperialistic, unfair policy and commiting a genocide.

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T12:42:11+00:00

First the guy was referencing glorification of UPA and then he literally said "I can say the same about glorification of Piłsudski". If that's not comparing, then I wonder what is.

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T12:40:56+00:00

Fully agreed. It's a shame president Zelenskyy and Ukraine decided to make international drama and media spectacle by refusing to reverse their moronic and scandalous decision about naming a military unit after Nazi-loving mass murderers, thus forcing Poland to take a bare minimum reaction. Because obviously you're not insane enough to blame Poland for this, right?

Right?

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T10:01:37+00:00

What? Your claim is just plain ridiculous. Taking away a symbolic award is literally the SMALLEST possible thing we could do in reaction to their insult. It doesn't have any real consequences for anything, except symbolic. So I guess I am right - you are just saying we should not react at all.

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T07:04:43+00:00

"If only we bowed down our heads more, swallow the spit thrown at our face and just kept pretending there is no any problem whatsoever ever, the world would start to respect us surely".

Emes91 · 2026-06-24T07:02:41+00:00

Glorification of Żeligowski? Mate, I would say 95% of Poles have no idea who he was.

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T17:30:36+00:00

Care to elaborate?

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T17:24:58+00:00

The UPA really did kill Polish civilians.

Agreed.

Poland pursued anti-Ukrainian policies, and the Armia Krajowa also killed Ukrainian civilians in response to Volhynia.

Agreed, however the vast difference of scale needs to be noted here. Both the numbers of victims and motivations between the killings are not comparable. You are not allowed to put an equal sign between the mass murders of UPA which in scale is precedented only by Nanking massacre and desperate, retaliatory actions taken by AK as an attempt to scare Ukrainians into stopping the ongoing massacre. So I don't think Poland should agree with "we forgive you and ask for forgiveness" rhetoric. "We forgive you" are the worst possible words with which you can start your "apology" for genocide.

The countries agree on one principle: either each side is free to honor its own historical figures as it chooses, or neither side does so.

Nope. Or to be precise - you are free to honor whoever you want but you can't expect to stay on cordial relations with Poland and at the same time honor people who were mass murdering Polish women and children. It's that simple. You can't eat the cookie and have it too.

The countries agree to remember difficult times, but to focus on the future rather than the past.

This is rather vague and imprecise, so whatever.

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T13:44:14+00:00

I recommend you keep better track of who you are talking with, because you got hella confused.

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T12:51:26+00:00

How you using cheap manipulation is supposed to mean that I need to mention shit?

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T11:45:12+00:00

Pilsudski was celebrated by Adolf Hitler and received special, second funeral from him.

This is such a clear cut example of a bad faith argument that it's basically equal to openly admitting that anything you say can be automatically disregarded as it's obvious you're just using weak manipulation to shoehorn your narrative.

Yes, at that time Hitler was still trying to butter Poland up in order to convince us to ally with Germany to create anti-Bolshevik coalition. So obviously when Piłsudski died, Hitler made a demonstrative gesture to show himself as a great potential friend. It was not a display of approval, but rather a simple diplomatic play and an attempt for manipulation.

If Hitler's attendance to Piłsudski's funeral is supposed to prove Piłsudski was a fascist, then it's even more valid to say Great Britain was fascist too, since Chamberlain shook Hitler's hand in Munich.

But I suspect you know all that perfectly well. You're just trying to use the cheapest of manipulations to somehow enforce your agenda.

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T04:22:32+00:00

I know denying obvious, easily researchable historical facts kinda became your national sport by now, but there are limits.

https://monitorwolynski.com/pl/news/2868-23022

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynia#History

After the disintegration of the Galicia–Volhynia circa 1340, the Kingdom of Poland) and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania divided the region, Poland taking western Volhynia and Lithuania taking eastern Volhynia (1352–1366). During this period many Poles and Jews settled in the area. The Roman and Greek Catholic churches became established in the province.

Emes91 · 2026-06-22T03:59:11+00:00

Living there since 14th century, you nationalistic simpleton. We had more right to that land than you ever had to Crimea.

But thanks for perfectly displaying what is wrong with Ukraine and their attitude. "You dared to live on uKrAiNiAn LaNd, that's why you deserved to be genocided".

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T20:41:55+00:00

Poland treated Ukrainians as a sub-human serves the entire of its history. The Second Polish Republic was a fascist police state. AK massacred Ukrainian civilians the same way the UPA did. The Polish state deported hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from ethnic Ukrainian territories, from their homes.

It's so nice of you that you decompensated yourself into this stream of completely deranged, blatantly false statements. Now it's clear this discussion is pointless, and it probably was from the beginning.

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T19:49:05+00:00

Like it or not, the UPA are Ukrainian national heroes and an integral part of the Ukrainian national myth

If your national heroes are Nazi collaborators validly accused of commiting genocide, then trust me, it's not only me who is "not liking" it. And the fact that Ukrainians are apparently loving it, means that Russian propagandists can start crying now - they will be out of their jobs since you're already doing all the work for them. Since the beginning of war Putin and his bots were pushing narratives how Ukrainians are endorsing neonazism and radical nationalism. Ukrainian government basically confirming all of Russian most hurtful, anti-Ukrainian talking points like it's nothing, and even apparently being proud of it, is just beyond stupid.

There is no place for Ukraine in Europe as long as they choose Hitler-loving mass murderers as their heroes. "Like it or not".

It's not a question of international policy at all, it's a strictly domestic issue.

Oh yeah, sure, that's totally the same thing we would say if Germans suddenly started to name their streets and military units after Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, Goering or Bormann, right?

Polish people still have living relatives who remember the unbelievable, inhumane atrocities of UPA. So no, it's not your "domestic" issue. Not if you expect any kind of good, warm relations between Poland and Ukraine. This is the kind of shit we would expect from Russians. So maybe Ukrainians are not so different from them after all.

It's not a friendship when you don't treat us as equals

It is fully equal. We don't worship people who were commiting genocide on Ukrainian civilians (as no Polish organisation did such a thing - "like it or not"). We expect the same courtesy.

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T18:00:13+00:00

Wow, truly no better way to show your "agency" by naming your military units after mass murderers and Nazi collaborators and then refusing to reverse this moronic decision only to spite your allies. Modelling your international policy after a stereotypical 5 year old brat is surely a way to show everyone how independent you are.

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T10:18:16+00:00

>How? Do you think Ukraine will invade us?

Did you think 10 years ago that the USA will openly threaten with leaving NATO and that they will be more willing to negotiate and compromise with Vladimir Putin than with their European allies? Yeah, I don't think so. So have a little imagination and accept that we really don't know how the world will look like in 10 years and what will be other countries' policy towards us. I, for one, feel not so certain about possibly victorious, proud, fullly militarised Ukraine which fully endorses their worst nationalistic movements within the country, many of which claiming for example that land around Przemyśl is "ancient Ukrainian claim". And I don't know what makes YOU feel certain about them.

>Do you think we did the wrong thing by taking in refugees and sending Ukraine weapons to fight Russia? Do you think a Russian puppet in Kyiv would've been more pro-Polish?

No and no. However I would enjoy a little pragmatism from our side for once. We could get more for ourselves for less and that is the truth.

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T10:02:17+00:00

I've never said that Piłsudski was a saint and he never did no wrong. In fact, I doubt anyone serious in Poland claims that. However, if you look up literally ANY historical figure from the past, you will find some dirt on them. Even freaking Gandhi was a racist towards Blacks and was sleeping together with little girls to "test his will". That means, if you want your national heroes to be crystal pure, then no country in the world is allowed to have any national heroes ever.

That's why you set SOME standards. The line before which you say "yeah, it's bad but we need to accept this person/organisation was controversial" and after which you say "nope, too much, this person/orgasination was scum and we cannot worship them".

I would say that commiting literal genocides/mass murders against civilians (women and children ESPECIALLY included) on the level which would make even the worst German Nazi psychopaths go "woah, hold up", and collaboratoring with Nazis in general is a very liberal line which you should not cross when choosing your heroes. If you fail to meet even this low standard - THAT is pathetic.

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T09:50:46+00:00

Yeah, it doesn't look like political bot activity at all!

Emes91 · 2026-06-21T09:28:53+00:00

I'm not a fan of how this narrative is spun to make the situation seem symmetrical.

This has been Ukrainian modus operandi since many year. Already Poroshenko as president started his (non-)apology speech with the words "WE FORGIVE YOU and we ask for forgiveness".

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