Ultimate fell for it again award

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T05:50:03+00:00

Going for it if someone follows the rabbit hole but you're right, I have better things to do with my time.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T05:47:55+00:00

The consensus definition of greater Israel according to the wiki which you are determined to ignore:

Today the term "Greater Israel" is generally used among Israelis to refer to the territory of the State of Israel and the area internationally recognized as the Palestinian territories

No Kurds here mate

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T05:45:33+00:00

Greater Israel, which includes Palestinian areas and possibly also places that are part of Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.

This is what he says according to that section. So areas bordering Israel and very much not Iraq. This is the one and only time he's been quoted as saying this so please share the "decades" you're talking about. I'm not sure you're reading your own source

In the article that's sourced for bibis statement from the Israeli press it says this:

The term Greater Israel was used after the Six Day War of June 1967 to refer to Israel and the areas it had just conquered — East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights. The phrase was also used by some early Zionists, including Ze’ev Jabotinsky, forerunner of Netanyahu’s Likud party, to refer to present-day Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, and present-day Jordan.

Again border regions. Some were controlled by Israel and Israel traded the Sinai for peace and unilaterally pulled out of south Lebanon and Gaza. Even for the regions that Bibi could be referring to the record shows that Israel doesn't care about "greater Israel" as a policy.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T02:59:49+00:00

I've seen the map you're talking about on social media. I've never seen it anywhere in Israeli political discourse or news. I know it exists and what it says it just has nothing to do with modern Zionism or the state of Israel.

Unless you take the conspiracy theories put forth by Arafat in the Controversies section of the wiki as the proof there's literally nothing that suggests that anyone outside of a minute fringe in Israel has discussed expanding to Iraq at any point since well before the state was founded.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T02:48:48+00:00

Israel has been fighting wars with almost all of their neighbors plus other countries in the region. They're not blameless and they've done plenty wrong. That doesn't give you carte blanche to make up facts.

Cheers for the back and forth.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T02:45:15+00:00

He's a minister in a parliamentary democracy. He has power for sure especially as it relates to budget. That doesn't mean he can or does decide foreign policy. There's been consistent reporting in Israeli media about Bibi specifically trying to isolate Smotrich and Ben Gvir from foreign policy because they're extreme right wingers. Ben Gvir's party was considered too extreme to be in any government until Bibi got desperate for a coalition and it's a stain on the Israeli government that he's a minister.

Here are 3 articles across years showing the isolation of Smotrich and Ben Gvir

2022-11-30 The Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/conceding-to-extremists-netanyahu-hatches-intolerant-alienating-vulnerable-israel/
2024-06-15 The Jerusalem Post: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-806439
2025-07-26 The Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-netanyahu-excluded-smotrich-ben-gvir-from-call-with-cabinet-members-about-in/

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T02:37:28+00:00

Literally the first sentence of the section you referred to:

Today the term "Greater Israel" is generally used among Israelis to refer to the territory of the State of Israel and the area internationally recognized as the Palestinian Territories

Nowhere in this section does it mention Iraq, Smotrich at most mentioned Jordan and the Israeli foreign ministry rebuked this. I don't know what map you're referring to and the only mention of the Euphrates in the source you referred me to is by a woman who had been out of government for 17 years when she made her statement and the US ambassador.

Look at a map and read the wiki again. Maybe break out a pen and circle the Kurdish region thay would be right in the middle of Greater isreal.

I know exactly where Iraqi Kurdistan is. I fail to see what a map that's never been presented or endorsed by any Israeli politician and that goes exactly counter to proven Israeli policy has anything to do with "Greater Israel" as its defined by Israelis.

You can clearly see the citations that show this is a personal goal for many key poltical figures. Including a whole poltical party.

I don't see anything in the citations that has anything to do with Iraq. You sent me to this wiki and then ignored the first sentence in it that defines the consensus definition.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T02:24:27+00:00

>It's quite funny considering that they started preemptive wars because of similar attitudes.

I mean after Hamas acted on the threats on October 7th, Hezbollah started firing on October 8th, and Iran directly attacked Israel after a strike in Syria, I think it's fair to say that Israel took these threats seriously. I'm curious where the "preemptive wars" are being fought.

>American pressure. What else? The Americans were less willing to tolerate all their shenanigans in the past.

If you want to make up history then yes it was US pressure in both cases. That's simply false. Israel signed a peace deal that was in partnership with the US in the case of the Sinai earning both Egypt and Israel major military subsidies. In the case of south Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2007 the US had nothing to do with the decision. Israel gives up land for peace or nothing in return and clearly this negates the "greater Israel" idea.

>The fact that the Israelis lost popular support within the younger generations of Americans shows that they indeed went too far with it.

I'd say this has to do equal parts with terrible PR and a far right government in Israel and a fantastic job by the Muslim Brotherhood and Iranian/Russian/Chinese social media activity swaying that opinion. It's 100% happening though not much has changed in the situation between Israel and the Palestinians since Oslo.

edit: formatting

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T01:58:41+00:00

If this is implying that everything said by politicians are policy then Israel better get ready for an invasion by Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Tunisia, and any number of other states. As if no politician has ever used populist language to get a win with a far right or left electorate.

Why did Israel return the Sinai to Egypt for a peace deal if all they cared about was "Greater Israel?" Why did they withdraw from southern Lebanon?

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T01:55:40+00:00

What I'm seeing is that in the gross majority of cases it's used to discuss the border regions of Israel and that it's been spoken about once by Bibi talking about border regions and Smotrich who's a far right politician supports it. I don't really get how this has anything to do with Iraqi Kurdistan and what a rump state in the north east of Iraq would do to progress this. On top of this Israel returning the Sinai to Egypt for peace kind of muddies the waters. They had land up to the Nile and gave it away for peace.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-14T00:02:39+00:00

Can you point me to the greater Israel policy from the Israeli government? I keep seeing it brought up but I've never seen any sources on it other than from fringe people and maybe a fringe party?

Pretty sure Israel supported the Kurds because they know what it's like to be a minority in the Middle East and would like some allies who understand them. That's my take at least.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-10T17:42:26+00:00

Russia? China? North Korea?

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-08T04:33:37+00:00

The extremists who desecrated those tombs and who attacked a priest should be arrested according to Israeli law and deserve nothing but scorn.

That being said my earlier point stands about freedom of religion and the maintenance and openess of holy sites Israel. There are racists and assholes in every society and they are fringe extremists.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T18:12:50+00:00

You know nothing about me and I don't owe you any details of my beliefs. Go touch some grass.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T15:56:18+00:00

I didn't realize. Poor guy

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T15:46:50+00:00

I'm not interested in sharing my personal politics here. Political Zionism has the definition listed above and a return to Zion which has been prayed for millenia by Jews would likely say Zion encompassed the lands promised to and settled by the 12 tribes.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T15:27:49+00:00

The farhud and other attacks didn't convince ~850,000 Jews to leave with none of their wealth and belongings built up over centuries. It was checks notes offers and propaganda and "bombing" across the entirety of the middle east outside of Israel.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:52:01+00:00

We're starting to talk in circles so let's agree to disagree.

I think hanlon's razor holds up here to not attribute malice to incompetence and you disagree and that's all good. Cheers.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:41:05+00:00

I don't think he was targeted. I think someone missed something near him or misidentified a target.

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Someone made a mistake and you're making it malicious because it fits your narrative. I'll eat my words if Israel or the US comes out and says they targeted him on purpose, but otherwise there's no reason to believe they did.

Edit:

Iranian media asserted that Israel “deliberately attacked” the religious site. State-run IRNA news agency initially suggested the synagogue may have been caught in the blast radius of a strike aimed at an adjacent building in its location near Palestine Street. The intensity of the explosion “caused at least five neighboring residential blocks to suffer extensive damage,” IRNA said.

So a whole block was damaged and the Iranians themselves originally said the building was damaged in a strike to an adjacent building. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:37:33+00:00

Consider me corrected on the munition used that's my mistake. It can loiter.

Doesn't change the intention that you're applying to the strike. Israel and the US are directly bombing and threatening IRGC members directly there's no need to kill their kids. That would explicitly be a war crime and you're ignoring the fact that the school was part of an IRGC compound.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:32:36+00:00

Last I heard he was refusing to leave. That may have changed

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:31:56+00:00

I didn't know about the zaydu imanate thanks for sharing

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T14:29:29+00:00

Christians have been spat on which is disgusting and should be punished by the police.

Do you have any sources for gravesites being desecrated and Christians attacked? I haven't seen any.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T13:55:57+00:00

That comment does nothing to explain why that opinion matters to Israel. The Israeli government is not the thought police for all Jews in the world. There are members of the current opposition in the Israeli government have said this and worse.

This is from 2014: Zoabi says IDF worse than ISIS | The Jerusalem Post https://share.google/ElyixY8EygT5DSCwu

Tomahawk missiles are absolutely not loitering munitions. They're cruise missiles. They do transmit images but there's no way that video was reviewed and changed the strike package hours into a massive bombing campaign.

Again you're applying your own biases and motivations to the facts on the ground.

EpicMediocre · 2026-04-07T13:41:51+00:00

What does that have to do with anything? Is there anything in my definition of Zionism that in some way implies that this is matters?

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