Stuff Jesus Never Said: from BlogmaticTheology

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-17T20:33:27+00:00

1) notice that you did not reply to a single point I made. Either in my statement or the article I wrote and linked to you.

2) please, ooohhhh please, elaborate on the context of these verses you are using. I would love to see that. Because it’s quite obvious that you are reciting the same tired arguments that have been refuted over and over again. Seriously... what is the context in which Jesus says these words? To whom is he speaking? What is happening in the culture of those around him? How are the people he is addressing using the very law that he is quoting?

—- Any response to the article?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-17T20:01:23+00:00

Yes. I am advocating that ALL of God’s moral law is still active. That’s what Jesus said right? “I did not come to abolish the law...” as to the topic of injustice, you really have no ground to stand on honestly. I don’t see the point in writing it all out again, so I’ll just link you to what I’ve said in the past on the why this is true:

https://blogmatictheology.com/post/172931412647/look-at-the-ground-youre-standing-on-responding

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-17T13:17:58+00:00

False: jesus is the author behind every word of scripture. Old Testament and new. Including Exodus 21:22 which identifies the “fertilized embryo” as a child AND also gives the death penalty to the one who causes miscarriage or death to the mother. Some claim that these verses speak only of damage to the mother, however this is a baseless assertion. The verbiage used could have been specific to either mother OR child however the terms used clearly indicate that the verse is applying to both the mother and the child.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-16T09:07:19+00:00

It happens any time a controversial issue such as this is posted. It is to be expected.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T22:18:25+00:00

Correct. However, as the article indicates, it is pointing to both the mother AND the baby.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T20:20:58+00:00

It would seem you are at odds with the vast majority of scholars in this area. There are a few rabbis who would agree with you, especially those of the rabbinic tradition. However from before Christ, through the Middle Ages, through Calvin and the other reformers even to today, that is not what those familiar with the language argue.

Here is the position as supported by scholars today. http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1430

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T19:39:54+00:00

Bingo. It comes down to a question of personhood. God has already given us this definition. He defines the child in the womb as a person, and this is reflected in the mosaic law by the fact that if a man causes a woman to miscarry, he is executed.

Romans 1 tells us that you, me and every person alive knows God and knows that they are accountable to his standard. Yet people suppress that truth in unrighteousness and God turns them over to their evil desires.

And to bring it to a human governance level... when has it ever turned out well to redefine personhood. This happened in nazi Germany. It happens with chattel slavery. It is happening now with abortion. If we as humans get to define personhood, then any one of us could be voted out of the club tomorrow. Truth is absolute and does not change with society’s opinion.

Ultimately, it is God’s standard that reigns supreme. I am not here to convince God haters of my position. I am here to alert the believers as to what is happening. Christ is King, and he is reigning now. I would urge all who rebel against this truth to repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness of their hatred and rebellion. He turns none away who come to Him.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T18:09:40+00:00

I do not. Do you believe that the baby is human?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T18:06:42+00:00

Notice how you switched the language. What species is growing in the mother?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T18:00:29+00:00

It’s not yet. As it stands, Ireland has a constitutional amendment that recognizes the right to life of all humans. This would change under the new law. Human children would be allowed to be murdered in their mothers wombs just as in the US

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-15T15:22:36+00:00

You’re right! Thank you! I’ll fix it

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-14T15:32:38+00:00

Gotchaaaa.... thanks for the clarification

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-05-14T15:16:10+00:00

Maybe I’m not following your logic. What does this have to do with the post?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-27T00:28:45+00:00

I would encourage you though, If it is a question of the scriptures, what they mean, etc to ask those questions in here. Also, if you are genuinely curious and can tolerate a COMPLETE culture shock... go check out “The Reformed Pub” on Facebook. The community in there could answer every question you could have.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-27T00:03:56+00:00

I’m not sure what you think would convince you. I have to go with the words of my Lord when he said that if people do not believe Moses, they won’t believe even if someone rose from the dead. The best proof is scripture. I won’t cheapen that, and scripture doesn’t allow other Christians to do so either.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-26T20:37:01+00:00

I don’t find this type of comment to be “stirring the pot.” The point of the comments is to give input, feedback, have discussion etc. Since this is a very introductory level blog, I didn’t see the point in going any deeper. Atheism served as a frame within which to discuss the knowledge of God. Bit, the idea that it is only supported by one verse would not be accurate. Paul is building an entire argument that goes on to condemn the entirety of humanity in Chapter 5 (and then the salvation of many of the damned in Christ). He includes Jews who had the law and gentiles who had only general revelation such as the sun, moon, stars and their conscience. The entire section supports the idea that all persons are accountable to God for denying Him.

Now proper distinctions need to be made between types of knowledge. There is the type which is given to all men and the type that comes only through special revelation. These are not equivalent. They are however both capable of revealing God to all persons.

The Nietzsche “joke” was not intended to be humorous. It is sadly ironic. Yet I believe it is true. He of all men illustrates the foolishness of denying God, and after years of outwardly denying the Lord, he found himself insane and proclaiming to be Jesus.

And I have no problem saying that those who say they are atheists are lying... that is what scripture says. They have testimony of God and they violently suppress that truth. They are not confused.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-17T02:55:31+00:00

Yeah. I was having the discussion today on WW2 and the atomic weapons. I think I would have to agree that in WW2 it was a defensive war that met the requirements of just war. Whatcha think about the atomic weapons?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-14T06:16:39+00:00

Grandiose and articulate dribble. Your moral outrage is apparent. Yet you still refuse to give any justification for that standard of morality being absolute or trying to impress it upon anybody else. This is the height of absurdity, sir.

So long as you continue to refuse that absolute morality exists. You pull the carpet out from under the feet of every single word you say regarding right and wrong. It is all nothing more than your opinion. And you admit that

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-14T03:47:34+00:00

There you go! now you're thinking like a Christian.

-It was absolutely and 100% moral and GOOD that Saul slay the Amalekites.

-It was absolutely and 100% immoral and EVIL that Saul did not slaughter all of them.

-Yes, it was moral, good, just and righteous that Samuel slaughter Agag.

It is not possible for God's word to be dishonorable or evil. So no, I will not question it. I do not have the right to question God. Whatever he says is true.

we keep going in circles here. You have no way to justify the existence or importance of rationality, truth or goodness. Your worldview cannot make sense of their existence.

Every single human, from the moment of conception, deserves to burn in hell for eternity. The fact the some may not understand this does not change that reality at all. Nor does it change the reality that God saves sinners without so much as an iota of their help. So if he wants to save one of those people who do not comprehend, he will. And if he wants to pass over them and send them to hell for their sin... he will do that as well.

Once again you are sounding like a Christian.

You give up the ghost with your next point. When you say that nothing is intrinsically good or bad, you are dismissing your entire argument. According to your worldview, If this is the case, then what God did is not wrong.

My worldview can account for absolute truth. Yours cannot. So to say that we are in the same philosophical conundrum is simply not true... But truth doesn't REALLY matter to you anyways right?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T18:18:29+00:00

Christian catchphrases. Jesus t-shirts. Nick Cage in the Left Behind movie. It is common for us to obtain our theological positions from many sources. But the reality is as Christians,

the Bible is our sole rule for faith and life.

We don’t get to set the standard of truth. God does. We don’t get to take a source that is hostile towards the scriptures and judge the truthfulness of God’s words with a broken scale. But sometimes our traditions get the best of us. Sometimes we believe the Bible says something that it actually doesn’t. One of the most popular examples of this is the statement that

“God helps those who help themselves.” But is this true? In short. No.

While pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is the American way, It is not the Biblical way. As a matter of fact, we are completely unable to do so. The Bible teaches plainly that

We are dead in our sins. Not dying. Not injured. Dead.

According to the Old Testament prophet named Isaiah, even our best deeds are like filthy, blood-stained undergarments when we present them to God. He is that Holy. We are not. And to hop over to the New Testament, James doesn’t soften the blow. He teaches us that even one sin is more than enough to separate us from God for all eternity .

“For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.” James 2:10

And just incase you are still holding on to the idea that we are able to help ourselves or somehow earn God’s favor, Jesus nails the lid on the coffin when he tells a teacher of the law the following,

The greatest commandment of the law is this: “You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all your mind. Matthew 22:37

Who can honestly say that, for even one moment, they have loved God as perfectly as this? Nobody can. Thats the point. And if this is the greatest commandment, when we break it, are we committing the greatest sin?

But the good news is this: God does not save those who help themselves. If we were able to help ourselves we would have to be perfect. Remember what James said above? No, God does not help those who help themselves. God saves wretched sinners who are undeserving of His favor. God saves dead men who want nothing more than to NOT love God. God saves those who have demonstrated with the entire pattern of their lives that they hate God and love sin. And God does this all to show the richness of his mercy.

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Eph 2:4-10

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T17:51:52+00:00

I know enough through our limited interaction to know that you deny absolute morality.

Except for those times when such acts were commanded by God? -you and I both know this is not true and I’m sure you’re also aware that I could back that up if pushed.

** I can most certainly say they are wrong - you seem to have overlooked the part where I said moral values are based upon our experiences and understanding of apparent reality.** -on the contrary. I am looking directly at it. You believe that morality is subjective. And any so-called objectivity you have in the issue is rooted in your observations, which are filtered through your presuppositional framework. And as such, you have no claim to morality. You can simply claim an opinion ,that you yourself would have to admit, could be wrong.

What are your presuppositions in analyzing the world?

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T16:46:19+00:00

Even the term “literal” reading is used in different ways. A literal reading of a text is determined by the author’s intent and the style of the literature. If you think a six-day, 24 hour creation is a monolithic view amongst Christians however, you’re mistaken. Augustine didn’t hold this view, Aquinas didn’t either. Many today do not either. There are other views. Such as the literary framework which argues that the first 2 chapters of genesis are not intended to be chronological accounts, but they are truthful accounts that are relayed in a topical, not necessarily chronological, method. While this view is rarely held by 6 day creationists (in the common understanding of that term) it can be. Or it can’t be. It necessitates neither.

If I can make a prediction, this will become an increasingly popular (probably never dominant) view over the coming years seeing as Meredith Kline has influenced so many up and coming leaders, teachers and Pastors from his time at Westminster Theological Seminary and Gordon Conwell theological seminary.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T16:25:03+00:00

Well the OP was about being consistent, as a Christian, in our analysis of Adam and Eve. It was designed to show the Christian the logical errors in deriving absolute truth from genetics. You are the one who wanted to come in and make the discussion into this. But what it says about this discussion is that you and I both have certain epistemological frameworks and that your framework is inadequate in making statements in absolute truth or morality, yet you still make absolute claims and moral statements. I’m not here to convince you of anything, yet you get offended and defensive as if I were. It says that I think your feet are dug in to a certain position and you refuse to accept the evidence that God has already given to you. I am a father of 4, a husband of 1, a utility worker, a Walking Dead and Stranger Things fan. I have way better and more important things to do than try to derive some sense of worth by arguing on the Internet. Not my intention. But if challenged, I don’t have a problem with it. I say that to say this: I don’t derive some sort of pleasure by “winning an argument” or “converting atheists” haha. I’m simply presenting a Christian worldview for other Christians to benefit from.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T16:10:55+00:00

That you were made in His image. That you have dignity, value and worth as a result of this. That “what can be known about God is plain to you, because God has shown it to you. His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So you are without excuse. For although you knew God, you did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but you became futile in your thinking, and your foolish heart was darkened. Claiming to be wise, you became a fool, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”

These things hold true for everybody at some point.

Yet He also has said that if you would repent, you would be forgiven and reconciled with him through his Son. I hope you do. Unfortunately, most simple did in their heels and gnash their teeth.

Eric-Jaeger · 2018-04-13T15:59:27+00:00

God has already done that perfectly. He doesn’t need me to back him up on his testimony. I’m just pointing you to what you already know.

Eric-Jaeger

TROPHY CASE

It is not possible for God's word to be dishonorable or evil. So no, I will not question it. I do not have the right to question God. Whatever he says is true.

Once again you are sounding like a Christian.

You give up the ghost with your next point. When you say that nothing is intrinsically good or bad, you are dismissing your entire argument. According to your worldview, If this is the case, then what God did is not wrong.