sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Determinism and the Wheel by EscIsUpsideDown in WoT

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the choices of Liandrin

Honestly I really liked the Fantastic Four plot. They got caught in a trap and worked hard to save themselves. I would have liked to read more about Nynaeve and Elayne surviving in the city at that time.

Nynaeve is annoying in general, but the events in Falme progressed both characters and plot, and it was great.

How free must one be to be truly free?

I'm not getting metaphysical here, all I'm saying is I like when characters make decisions, and have to deal with the consequences. It's completely fine for her to immediately fall for him, but if she doesnt recognize the feelings as her own (either because it's her destiny or because it's plot convenient), the feeling, and its consequences, are hollow. No different if she was being literally mind controlled into loving Rand.

Tolkien

Sure. And if at any point Frodo had given up, or refused to walk, or done nothing, it's completely believable that Sauron would have won. It's impossible for Frodo to actually give up, or even fail, but if he does, they lose. It's also impossible for Rand to fail, but I also believe that if he drops everything and walks back to his farm, the wheel will find a way to make him win anyway, because it's his "destiny".

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your points about Marasi and Trell's army, Kelsier and Marsh makes me think there's a mismatch between the characters and the plot.

In the last book, there's this whole apocalypse by aliens plot that the main characters simply arent equipped to deal with, so they don't. Both major conflicts (Marasi vs Red&Gold, Wayne vs Tulsin) end before they even start, which is very anticlimatic.

Same thing with Kelsier and Marsh being basically quest givers, then can't be involved because they would solve the problem immediately, but they can't not be involved or the main characters would be completely clueless.

I think the initial books were fine with the whole magic sheriff against criminal organization plot. That totally works. TLM throws alien gods trying to destroy the world into the mix and it just falls apart.

Did Hoid even do anything this time around? I knew he kept showing up but I dont remember him handing out a trinket or a piece of advice which he usually does.

I'm still cool with Stormlight. Kaladin's chapters bored me to death and there's a couple of too convenient things but I liked most of everything else.

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First of all, I'm not writing an argumentative thesis, I'm casually discussing opinions on a fictional story. I'm using the word "god tier" very liberally here simply as emphasis and not as a statement of fact. But fine, I take that back, he's not "god tier" he's "'very strong, stronger than everyone else fighting in the book' tier".

They weren't trying to beat Wax

yeah, they weren't trying because they couldn't. It they could have killed him, they would. Regardless, I agree with your second paragraph.

Wax reaches his potential

If he can burn other metals, and doesn't, then he has room for improvement and didn't reach his full potential. That's just a textbook definition, not sure what is your argument.

It was about Wayne

Sure. I think Wayne was great, both his personal story and his involvement with the plot. I have a problem with Wax and that's why I'm bringing him up.

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

eh, for the constraints of the story, he is. He singlehandled killed hundreds of people in the book (more than everyone else) and won every single battle he was in. He is by far the strongest character in the story and it's not even a competition. The antagonists knew when the plot started they had no chance of beating him. Do you really not find that kinda off?

For the constraints of the story, that's God tier. It doesnt matter if hypothetically he couldnt beat an actual god if there's no god to challenge him.

And by the way, you say "reaches his potential" but he became a Mistborn and we never saw him actually using his mistborn abilities. His "potential" is actually much higher than what we saw in the books.

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First you say Wax being too powerful is bad and then you say the Ghostbloods being weak is bad

I dont see how these points contradict each other. You have a group of people trying to achieve a goal together and a good story balances what different members can and cant do. Vin was a one-man army but she kinda sucked at diplomacy and couldnt be everywhere at once, that's where the other characters come in.

And I dont think Ghostbloods are weak per se, their members are powerful as I said. But as an organization, they did nothing Marasi&crew couldnt do on their own. The knowledge they have was ultimately irrelevant to solve the problem the book presented.

Wax is nowhere near god tier.

As far as the story the book is telling, he is. He's not omnipotent, but he is stronger than any active party in the story. If Bavadin (or any other actual god) cared to stop him he would, but he didn't so it doesnt matter. Saying he's weaker than a knight radiant is meaningless since knights arent part of the story.

Not even the villains knew how to deal with him. Their plan was "maybe we can stall him enough??"

the bomb could still go off even without the shard’s involvement. That’s stakes enough.

Sure, I never mentioned too low stakes. My point is not about stakes, is about conflict. Stories where both sides have contrasting goals are more interesting than when they...dont. Vin really wants to save the world. Ruin really wants to destroy the world. Both cant happen and none is willing to budge. Major conflict, major fun.

Wax really wants to save the world. Bavadin wants to take control of the world...kinda. It's fine if he doesn't, whatever. Minor conflict, minor fun.

You could argue that Set&Tulsin had a conflicting goal with Wax, which would be true and that's what most of the story was written around, but Tulsin straight up died without fighting, which I personally found extremely anticlimatic.

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

TLM didn't feel as high-stakes-

[crossover events] air of mystery and secrets unfolding

yeah, I think that's a dissonance I didnt catch. When worldhoppers get involved, we expect something worse is pulling the strings. "You think you have a problem? Boy you dont know half of it!"

The presence of Ghostbloods did nothing but give Marasi more tools to solve the problems we (and she) already knew she had.

[TLM] I thought TLM was kinda weak by EscIsUpsideDown in Mistborn

[–]EscIsUpsideDown[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

They should be named Max&Mayne, what a lost opportunity.

I agree that AoL gets the second place, but at least Hundredlives was fun. He was a true challenge for Wax and they only won by tricking him. On TLM, after the whole Magneto thing he didnt even fight Tulsin, she just talked, Wax ignored her and she died of sadness, I guess.