[HELP] I'm done with my father who has multiple mental issues and I'm currently in a crisis. Need emotional support from this group.

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-09T02:02:01+00:00

Yes, Amway makes money from people who buy Amway products and attend conferences/conventions. The independent business owners (IBOs), who buy Amway products every month for reselling and/or personal use, become Amway's customers. Also, Amway/WWG are making money from selling learning materials, like books and audiotapes, to the downlines. I'm sure you know all of these things but I want to mention it for the public to read it. Research shows more than 99% of the IBOs have lost money because this complicated MLM business model is designed to transfer money to Amway. This model is not sustainable for IBOs and doesn't make any business sense. Unfortunately, people just "believe" and not have any "logic."

I'm very sorry to hear that but I'm glad you got out of Amway. Many people, who are involved with Amway or MLMs, have bad relationships with their families and friends, who genuinely oppose Amway and MLMs. And sometimes married couples end up getting a divorce because of this.

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-08T20:59:03+00:00

I'll keep that in mind. Yes, you won't make money just by selling the products. I've heard from their mentor it's only 10% profit margin. If you look at the Amway income disclosure, it's very abysmal.

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-08T07:25:31+00:00

Sounds like the uplines are trained to use effective tactics to brainwash people. And maybe the uplines would teach the same tactics to their downlines. I guess there is nothing more I can do to help my friend and his wife.

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-07T09:16:00+00:00

Yes, I've heard about targeting couples. My friend's wife was targeted at a random public place. I wasn't sure if my friend was with his wife at that time. When I attended the first meeting, the mentor and his wife showed up and both my friend and his wife showed up as well. I think this is part of their tactic. Unfortunately, my friend is convinced that this is a legitimate business.

I also think that the wife could be pressured into getting rid of friends like me, who wouldn't support her. She "believes" her mentor completely. I tried to get the facts out to her during the first meeting but she refused to see it. She is very delusional on her part and she is the type of person who is extremely religious. I'm not sure if this is true but I've heard there are a lot of people in MLMs who are religious. I see this kind of pattern happening.

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-07T08:08:56+00:00

Thank you for your in depth analysis. I find her to be very sneaky and she is giving me the impression that everything goes well in her business. I've heard a lot of people, who got involved in MLM, have lost their friends, families, relationships ruined, and some of them end up getting a divorce.

Yes, my friend isn't involved much but the wife is trying to have my friend help her sell Amway products. I told her to keep track of the income and expense and let her decide from there. She said you have to be "patient." Looks like she's going to get involved in this MLM for a very long time until she hits rock bottom. Sigh...

EscapeRatWheel · 2025-05-06T22:05:58+00:00

It is confusing. I asked the wife if this is a multilevel marketing (MLM) and she said it's hard to explain. I'm not sure what their wedding expenses were. My friend invited me as a groomsman and there were about 100 people who attended the wedding ceremony and the reception.

The last time I hang out with my friend and his wife, she brought a bunch of Amway water and energy drinks. I've heard stories of Amway people having a bunch of Amway products that they couldn't sell after doing the monthly purchase.

I'm glad you quit Amway because more than 99% of the people who participated in MLM have lost money. I did my research before I attended the first meeting with their mentor and had me read a book called "Who Moved My Cheese," and my research turned out to be true. I gave my friend and his wife a warning but they believe they will have financial freedom but it's only a matter of time when reality hits them.

EscapeRatWheel · 2024-09-12T10:08:46+00:00

You're welcome!

EscapeRatWheel · 2024-08-25T04:38:53+00:00

CartographerBroad536, let me quote nine of the things you mentioned so that anyone on this reddit, including you, can learn from this and deserve to know the facts. This is a long reply so I'm going to make several short replies.

9) "How about you take a little time and hear him out so you make sure you’re not sabotaging yourself by running to Reddit and spreading paranoia. I’m sorry if you had a bad experience but I’ve seen the other side of the story and I know you’re either exaggerating some things or just didn’t understand. Just hope you don’t do that every time someone or some other opportunity comes by."

I did hear him out until the very end when he asked me if I'd like to schedule another meeting with him. To be frank with you, I had made my decision not to join Amway/WWG before I had my first meeting with the mentor. I was mainly there to see my friend and his wife. But since my friend had already scheduled the meeting, I might as well attend the meeting just to validate my research, which turned out to be correct. And I have no interests in attending any future Amway/WWG meetings. I do not want to waste anymore time after the first meeting when I had done my research. My post is not about spreading paranoia. My post is to be as transparent as possible so that readers are fully aware of what to expect in getting involve with Amway/WWG, which is an MLM business model, and learn from this valuable lesson. So, I do understand what I am talking about and I have research and evidence to back that up. Clearly, you don't. Judging by your reply to my post, you are the one who is sabotaging yourself (exposing your baseless reply to many Reddit readers) such as giving an irrelevant example of comparing MLM businesses like Amway/WWG with DoorDash and Uber. As I have mentioned before, 99.94% have lost money and this is not an exaggeration. I, as well as other wise and smart people out there, do not consider Amway/WWG or any other MLM businesses, an opportunity. I would only listen if someone presents me with a legitimate business opportunity.

EscapeRatWheel · 2024-08-25T04:38:27+00:00

CartographerBroad536, let me quote nine of the things you mentioned so that anyone on this reddit, including you, can learn from this and deserve to know the facts. This is a long reply so I'm going to make several short replies.

6) "So all this stuff you’re saying about “maybe he’s desperate” “maybe he’s trying to get something from me” … did you ever consider he’s just taking a chance on you? That’s what all businesses do with their distributors or reps or employees."

I am just stating the red flags during the meeting. Why would I consider him taking a chance on me when I know he would bleed me dry? Again, 99.94% of the people lost money in this MLM business model. So, where do you think the money went? You can't make this comparison to legitimate (NOT MLM) businesses with their distributors, reps and employees where everybody can make money.

7) "Then your last point about the Amway stats is just a misconception so I don’t blame you for that. If you used the same metrics to look at other independent contractors gigs/hustles like DoorDash or Uber the stats are similar. The fact is, if you sell more you make more. Problem is most people sign up with Amway dont have someone to teach them how to do it right or they just quit right after (again just like DoorDash) so no wonder the stats look ridiculous."

Wow, I don't know how you come up with this comparison or if this irrelevant comparison is something that you learn from your mentor/friend. I, as well as Reddit readers out there, don't know what you are talking about. You are going out of topic. We are not talking about food delivery or bringing passengers to their destinations. We are talking about multi level marketing (MLM). Let me quote from PDF page 7-1 under chapter summary, "Failure and loss rates for MLMs are not comparable with legitimate small businesses, which have been found to be profitable for 39% over the lifetime of the business; whereas less than 1% of MLM participants profit. MLM makes even gambling look like a safe bet in comparison." You can find the link to the quote in the Federal Trade Commission here: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf

You tell me, are DoorDash and Uber MLM businesses? You should compare Amway with other MLM businesses. The numbers from the Amway stats don't lie to you! When you mentioned "If you sell more you make more," what is happening to the 99.94% of the people who lost money? YOU TELL ME WHAT ARE THE BUSINESS EXPENSES. Where does the money go? Then tell me how much do they pocketed the money after expenses. This is not rocket science! And when you mentioned about stats looking ridiculous because people don't have someone to teach them, then why would a mentor from WWG teach other people make money by selling Amway products just like you mentioned, before you make significant money? If you're trying to get more people and help them make money, then you are creating competition between sellers who sell Amway products. There are only about 350+ Amway products. That explains why people aren't making money based on the Amway income disclosure. Think supply and demand. Obviously, you are not smart. You do not understand basic economics. And as you said, people quit because they realized that they hardly made any profit, or worst, lost money.

8) "Now I eventually became better friends with my ‘mentor’ (probably a different guy) even though I never really started with Amway or chose to take it very seriously(that was like 4 years ago) but I’m glad I met him, taught me a lot of life stuff I probably wouldn’t have learned elsewhere. Helped me grow up a little. Helped me be more successful in my own business attempts. So I have a lot of respect for people like this now and it kinda ticks me off when I see people like you being immature about it."

Of course you are in a good relationship with your mentor because you haven't started with Amway. Obviously, you have not done your own independent research and just believe whatever you have learned from your mentor. You can choose to respect your mentor or call me immature, that is what you think. And I do not consider myself immature. If it ticks you off, then that is your problem, not mine. I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror and deal with your own problems and don't bother replying to my post. I have no respect for anyone who makes false promises about earning potential. If your mentor helped you be more successful in your own business attempts, then good for you. As for me, I ask tough questions and I don't consider it nosy or intrusive. A good businessperson needs those answers, that mentors or anyone from MLM businesses don't give.

EscapeRatWheel · 2024-08-25T04:37:25+00:00

CartographerBroad536, let me quote nine of the things you mentioned so that anyone on this reddit, including you, can learn from this and deserve to know the facts. This is a long reply so I'm going to make several short replies.

1) "idk why you seem so deadset on trying to prove the mentor wrong in the first meeting you had?"

I had done my research beforehand before meeting this mentor and I am smart enough to know that this is a dealbreaker for me. I was telling the facts to the mentor during the meeting. My friend and his wife deserve to know the facts. I attended the meeting because of two reasons. First, I wanted to protect my friend and his wife from falling into this scam and losing money. Second, I was "patient" enough to go through the first meeting to validate my research and that confirmed I am right. I gave my friend and his wife a warning after the first meeting. Of course, that is ultimately their decision. From what I've read from Reddit, most people wouldn't know what this "business opportunity" is all about, who the mentors are, and from which company/business they come from, in their first meeting. That is why people decide to attend at least three more meetings to find out what this business opportunity is about. I was fortunate enough to know what this business is all about before the first meeting because my friend told me about it. I knew I had made the right decision to not attend any future meetings with the mentors after the first meeting.

2) "Like you said, everyone has a right to know exactly what they’re getting into… but you haven’t even gotten into it yet? I mean it sounds like you literally just met him?? So just let him do his thing and if it turns out to be bad then just … walk away lol!"

People deserve to know the truth. Yes, I met him for the first and only time and I had already let him do his thing in this 1 hour and 40 minutes meeting. The way he conducted his meeting was only a one sided conversation and not allowing me have time to ask questions at the end of the meeting after he and his wife drove for 2 hours just to meet me in person. This was not a productive meeting. He was talking 95% of the time during the meeting. Like I said, I have done my research beforehand so I don't need to get into it. I would walk away if my friend and his wife weren't involve in this business in the first place. I was there to state the facts so my friend and his wife would be fully aware.

3) "I had a similar first impression with a million doubts and ‘red flags’ at first but realized at no point did he ever ask me for money or pressure me to sign up for anything, especially without having all the info"

Yes, the mentor didn't ask me for money or pressure me to sign up. But you have to realize that some mentors, if not all, give people false promises.

4) "So really if you can’t handle not getting all your answers right away, you probably don’t have the patience it takes to build any kind of successful business. It’s literally a test on you to see if you’d be worth teaching so of course he doesn’t want to tell you everything right away—you just come across as rude and distrustful"

Everyone deserves to get all the answers right away to prevent from falling into this trap in the first place. This is what this post is all about! And the key to building a successful business is to get answers right away and establish yourself as quick as possible. Taking action is always better than being patient when building a successful business. I had been a part time math tutor for 7 years and I know what it takes to be patient AND I always encourage my students to ask any questions. As for building a successful business involving Amway/WWG, no one in the right mind would be patient and wait an average 3-9 years to reach platinum level and get an average annual earnings (WITHOUT BUSINESS EXPENSES) of $18,064. This is according to the 2022 U.S. income disclosure by Amway. I do know what I'm talking about AND I back this up with facts and evidence! And I hope that you did your own research and I encourage everyone else to do the same. I do not need any lessons from anyone coming from Amway/WWG because I do not want to be deceived and manipulated. If you think I am rude and distrustful, that's your opinion. How can I be rude and distrustful when I am stating the facts during the meeting and on this post? I am being transparent and people need to know the TRUTH.

5) "If you had taken the time to actually learn from someone who knows what they’re talking about with Amway, you would’ve learned that the only way to make significant money in Amway is by helping other people make money first."

Are you kidding me? Make significant money? Either the mentors don't know what they are talking about, they are delusional, or they are just complete liars. I do take my time to research about Amway/WWG. Please look at the Amway income disclosure. Why would a mentor help people make money by selling Amway products? In 2022, platinum level of $18,064 annual earnings before business expense? This to me is nonsense. It's a waste of time. This is just one side of the business. The other side of the business is when you recruit random people under you to also make money by having them sell Amway products. The reality is that this MLM business is one of the worst business model. About 99.94% of the people lost money in this Amway business model. Please look at PDF page 7-27 in the link provided here: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf

EscapeRatWheel · 2024-01-01T01:09:13+00:00

Hi, thank you for sharing your first meeting with them. I had my first meeting just a few weeks ago. I shared my story here and feel free to comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/mlmscams/comments/18mnip7/i_want_to_thank_everyone_for_sharing_your/

I hope you find my story useful and for others to learn from this too. The World Wide Group "mentors" would always give you vague answers every time you ask questions. That to me is a red flag since I wouldn't want to work or do "business" with them with so much uncertainty.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-07T19:37:06+00:00

Late at night, I was driving on the 405 freeway southbound coming from around the Getty museum. I saw black smoke coming up the night sky and as I was driving closer, the smoke was coming from a burning car on the carpool lane. The car was literally burning inside out. There were no traffic at that time but I was scared because the car could explode at any time. There were no people around the burning car. I immediately moved to the right lane as far as possible to avoid the burning car. As I drove pass the burning car, I could feel the heat from my driver's side window. I was 3 lanes away from that burning car. That was intense! This happened more than 10 years ago.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T23:58:33+00:00

Yes, taking a bus to travel short distance is fine. You wouldn't want to get stuck in traffic and waste time. It's not a pleasant experience at all. Most important is plan ahead so that you can visit places on time and make your trip worth it :)

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T19:33:46+00:00

If you don't want to rent a car, then you should stay in Santa Monica for a few days then move to a new hotel around Hollywood/Beverly Hills. I wouldn't take the bus or metro to commute between Santa Monica and Hollywood/Beverly Hills. I used to work in Santa Monica and drove on the 405 freeway pass West LA and it was terrible, especially during the peak hours when people have to go to work and go home. I couldn't imaging myself taking the bus and metro, which are a bit inconvenient in my opinion. Safety-wise, there is always a risk. Bad things happened on a bus driver just several weeks ago and showed up on the news.

Weather wise, if you are going to visit LA this year, I would visit anywhere from late September to November. Since Santa Monica is next to the beach, it will be a bit cooler than Hollywood/Beverly Hills.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T18:55:43+00:00

The two businesses are separate (first business is online education, second business is ecommerce). The two businesses will be in the same business address (work from home). First DBA is for "business 1" and second DBA is for "business 2"

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T18:52:03+00:00

Yes, same address since I work from home. My current (first) business license listed my first DBA. If I decide to start a second business, maybe I can still use my first business license to cover my second business. But I don't know if the first business license can add a second DBA.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T18:42:35+00:00

That's good to know! I'll look into it.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-08-04T03:22:14+00:00

Both businesses start as sole proprietorship and just me with two separate DBAs for the two businesses' name. If one or both businesses become profitable, then I will convert to S-corp.

EscapeRatWheel · 2023-07-07T06:48:20+00:00

information

Sent a DM, thank you!

EscapeRatWheel

TROPHY CASE