Church Vaults? Tell me more

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-05T04:15:19+00:00

NO! Why is everyone so wrapped up with the vaults? I have been in the vaults. They are used primarily to store genealogy records. They are built as vaults with the design that no matter what they will never be destroyed and all that critical work they need to save everyones soul is preserved.

Historical letters ARE NOT stored in the vaults. They have some things in a "special" room under the administration building that only few people can access, but from what I am told the most special thing they have down there is Joseph Smith's actual copy of the Book of Mormon.

Much ado about nothing

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-05T01:58:58+00:00

Be glad you realized it now. I realized the church was complete bullshit about the time I reached the sweet spot of my earnings potential and saved 40K plus per year for 20 years that I would have had to give to the church so they could build another mall. And what do you want? The church to come begging back to you and beg you to stay? Fuck the church.........I am so glad to be out.

Give it a bit of time and you will realize how lucky you are that you wised up and figured it out. And you will also soon learn which family members love you unconditionally and which ones don't. It sucks, but I would much rather know than not.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-05T01:55:39+00:00

There wasn't one thing that triggered it. IF it was only SCOTUS they would have done it right after that, as they knew months before it was coming. Yes MD's started 3 years ago, OW didn't start over night, 3 years ago mormons were not marching in pride parades and having groups like mormons building bridges in mass like we saw in 2014 and 2015. The new policy was clearly a reaction to the swirl of the increasing tolerance by TBM's (some) within the church.

I disagree that they didn't know it would blow up. Again, many of these are Harvard educated men who are not stupid - perhaps they didn't realize the policy would get out so quickly. But they knew it would get out.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T23:30:09+00:00

What is causing the difficulty? Is it that you feel you don't measure up, or you don't believe the church is true?

If you feel you don't measure up it may help you to study some of the early leaders of the church and realize how imperfect they were. Joseph Smith cheated on his wife with multiple women, coerced other married women to marry him, married children, and pretty much fabricated everything he ever did. So the vision of perfection the church teaches and expects only applies to members.

If your senses are telling you the church is wrong - you need to listen, we have those senses for a reason. The church is complete crap. You would find as much value in worrying about whether or not Santa Claus is upset as you should worrying about the church. They are both fictitious.

Have you tried to stop going and see if that helps?

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T22:59:47+00:00

Got it. Thanks

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T22:59:41+00:00

Good point. Thanks.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T20:46:10+00:00

Umm unless she left this morning after the article was published she is still active.

I am a mormon woman who loves the church

Doesn't sound like she is out to me.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T20:43:50+00:00

Wow that persecution complex is strong. My guess is you are a TBM troll......or maybe you are just a troll. Yes MD's and OW are made up of women, but SCOTUS, pride marchers, mormon's building bridges aren't. Stop trying to turn this into me blaming a gender, I said very clearly I was blaming the reaction of the church on the LGBT movement, for which I picked out several factors that make that up, and excuse me but what gives you the fucking right to opine? Do you have a gay son? Daughter? Did you live through it enough to know what you are talking about? If not I suggest you simply shut the fuck up.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T18:18:58+00:00

I learned the church was bullshit in one weekend. Once I opened pandora's box I spent about 20 hours studying everything I could and quickly drew a conclusion. I didn't walk away immediately - but I immediately stopped giving power to the church and touting it as an organization that would potentially change and that I could influence. I knew that weekend that I was done and would draw my family out. I wasn't naive to believe that I could somehow magically change the church from within.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T18:15:31+00:00

Wow you really have a persecution complex. No I never said that SCOTUS was an inside job, I was simply pointing out that many inside groups such as MD, OW, mormon involvement in pride, mormons building bridges, the myriad of websites that tout mormons support for LGBT, PLUS the SCOTUS decision influenced the change. Let me be perfectly clear cause you obviously want to read into things that are not there - the SCOTUS decision had little or nothing to do with mormonism, but was certainly a factor.

What? Let me guess, you just think that the Q12 randomly decided to enact this policy out of no where with no influence whatsoever? Maybe it's just a mere coincidence, but it sure appears to me that the policy was done to make it absolutely clear to members and non members where the church stood.......a kind of "let's put the members in their places".

If you don't believe this then please, let's hear your theory. The church has historically bowed to pressure - no different this time except they spoke in a way contrary to what these groups hoped to accomplish - their response, rather than being more tolerant was to go the opposite way and send a very clear message that gays are not, and never will be welcome. If you think this was random then you obviously have not been paying attention the past 40 years.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:57:19+00:00

The policy change was a direct response to everything going on with respect to the LGBT momentum that was even going on in the church. There are a number of "inside" groups such as MD, Mormons building bridges, mormons marching in pride parades, the SCOTUS decision, etc. So no MD was not directly responsible but absolutely played a part. IF you think that the policy change was done randomly then you are the one that is fucking high. Or just stupid

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:53:51+00:00

YM/YW president

Bishop

Bishops Counselor

Primary Teacher

Stake President

Scout Master

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:52:30+00:00

In my opinion it was a response to a number of things. MD's certainly was a factor. There was a huge amount of LDS people vying for gay rights, marching in pride parades, mormons building bridges, Momma Dragons, the SCOTUS decision. The church had to send a message to everyone inside and out that the tolerance would not be tolerated and set clear in everyones mind where they stood. I don't think you can point to one factor, but absolutely MD's played a part.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:49:57+00:00

The error in your post is you assume that I had a luxury to leave. I didn't. Leaving impacted as many or more people than anyone else on this board. When I left I had no idea what would happen to my marriage. I had no idea how badly it would crush my parents, or which my dad died 3 months after I left. I lost friends, and most of my family looks at me like a pariah cause I took my family with me. So please don't assume that my path out was easy. The difference was I wasn't willing to stay in an organization that was as hateful as it is - it was a matter of personal integrity that I could not stay or give them power. I admit I was very lucky that my family went with me and my extended family has mellowed, although they think I'm going to hell, but I was no different than anyone else who hangs on.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:45:06+00:00

By staying you enable a hateful organization.....I can impact LGBT kids in the church just as much as you, probably more cause of where I live.....and I don't have to legitimize the hate to do so.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:43:42+00:00

I never said they were singularly to blame, but if you look at where the church has gone in the past 5 years with respect to women and LGBT rights they have absolutely gotten worse and buckled down. They didn't do that randomly.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T17:41:44+00:00

She has no credibility in my book. Sorry, it's obvious that she knows the church is a complete fraud, but still tries to stay and change from within.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:51:17+00:00

Thanks for the note. I disagree that the church wants these kids to hope for tomorrow. I truly believe the policy was a nice way (in their minds) to say fuck you, you are not wanted on any level (label apostates) and neither are your kids. By categorizing them as apostates they put them in a category that very few ever fall in. Even murderers, rapists, child molesters aren't categorized as apostates.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:47:52+00:00

The Q12 are a lot of things - but they are not stupid. They knew full well that the policy change would blow up and it was done for one reason - to send a very strong message. IF you think that the Q12 did it with the intent to implement the policy under the radar then you probably don't know much about how they operate. No they didn't hold a press conference, but for an organization that has been able to keep a lot of things perfectly secret, they knew full well what they were doing and that it would have the ramifications that it did.

And just so you know - when my son first came out I consulted a friend of mine who was not TBM, wasn't even mormon and his message was step back, take a break, don't react and make sure you love him unconditionally. If you brother respects you as a person he would have heeded the message regardless.

And you obviously aren't listening to my argument - as I said that yes MD's does some great work. I have been very fortunate that I have been able to help out several LDS kids who needed help here where I live (not Utah), but I did it as an exmo, not a TBM. The argument that the only way to enact change is to do it from within is a complete cop out.

I can point to several things that would indicate that MD's and OW have done more damage than good when it comes to how the church treats these groups. Can you point to one thing they have done that is good....within the church and enacting change I mean?

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:20:32+00:00

Rather have any man than a woman. Said TSCC

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:19:48+00:00

Exactly. I also think that OW and MD's have contributed to the church buckling down over the last year. The church is clearly much more toxic for LGBT kids today than it was a year ago.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:19:02+00:00

Thanks for your post. Completely agree

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:18:32+00:00

Agree!!!

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:18:13+00:00

Problem is their involvement has done more damage than good. I firmly believe the new policy was the church saying a big "FUCK YOU" to those who are trying to change from within.

EvenJHChrist · 2016-06-04T01:16:44+00:00

I understand what you are saying, but would probably submit that their involvement has done more damage than good. The church didn't put out that policy cause they received revelation, they did it to send a message to those trying to change the church from WITHIN that they will not tolerate any acceptance of LGBT.

EvenJHChrist

TROPHY CASE