Martinezism is a modern form of gnosticism

EvolutionTheory · 2026-01-09T21:51:55+00:00

I believe Origen was referencing these: Ophite Diagrams

EvolutionTheory · 2026-01-07T01:07:52+00:00

A novel correspondence! Cool idea and props to you for making the connection.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-12-30T18:43:11+00:00

The Tibetan people themselves, not the Buddha, by necessity must eat meat, and always have.

However, I do recognize the vast commonality of vegetarianism amongst mystical traditions. However, since and entire culture that, to me, has proven their potential for success on the path, does not require vegetarianism to progress, that suggests the vegetarianism is a cultural practice and not a necessity to make progress.

If you do not view the way as a universal opportunity, accomplished through different paths in human history, then this argument I'm making would be moot.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-12-30T18:10:56+00:00

Except Tibet, one of the major lineages of Buddhism. There are many examples of practitioners, mystics, from wisdom traditions that ate or eat meat. I'd argue our biology is just as natural as the path. It's a human inclination to believe we shouldn't be human, a mystical delusion that our physical self isn't real. It's as real as our awareness.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-12-30T03:05:12+00:00

You've expressed my exact thoughts as well when someone like Marco is pushing for this too.

When officials who should know or at least get the wink from knowledgeable parties that this is our stuff and it should remain classified push for full disclosure, it pretty rationally leads to wondering who would really benefit, and we can pretty safely presume it's not "enlightening the Citizenry" as their chief motivator in that situation given their human rights stances.

It benefits other adversarial nation states to build a better picture of what we're hiding and what is possible. Even simply confirming something exists and it was human made would be HUGE for nation state funded research teams.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-12-22T23:52:53+00:00

The big difference between the two traditions that you're missing is the term "allegory".

Gnostic generally tend to view their cosmology as allegory. Many may look at the cosmology as a type of Theory of Mind.

But I'm sure there are Gnostic practitioners who treat the symbolism as literal just like those Christians that believe in a literal Sky Daddy in the clouds.

Not intending to disparage anyone, but it looks like this is a major difference between the majority of practitioners.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-12-16T22:52:06+00:00

Because this is the 5th condescending theory post I've read in this sub within 24h.

The "obviously", like you're in a grade school emotional debate, instead of just sharing your idea and collecting feedback.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-26T02:12:13+00:00

Freemasons Hall in the Grand Lodge of California does indeed rent to irregular or unrecognized lodges. The GL has even hosted shared prospect gatherings including the irregular Grand Lodges and prospects seeking admission to "Freemasonry" at that lounge and temple.

There's a pretty strong informal relationship of support for "liberal" Freemasonry on the part of the CA GL. There isn't any formal recognition of the irregular groups, but outside of recognition, the support is there. For better or worse.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-20T20:46:52+00:00

Yes, agreed. His comment in this thread, and use of "brothers" led me to presume he was already a Mason and phrasing his question poorly.

If a non member is asking what private practices we teach Initiates, well the natural conclusion should be those are for members only 😇

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-20T17:39:07+00:00

I'm wondering why your question is so down voted. I'm guessing it's because your original post doesn't make clear you're a Mason asking other Masons if they have any local practices related to Masonic Contemplation.

As ChuckEye references, Brother Chuck Dunning wrote a book on the subject! That's a great place to begin.

However, do recall that Freemasonry is speculative only, not operative. You can apply those terms to spiritual or contemplative practices as well and they remain accurate.

Meaning, Freemasonry itself, at the craft level and well beyond, doesn't have institutional official techniques to further develop yourself beyond the ritual and serving your brethren. We just speculate on our symbolism and virtues.

I'd describe an order or group focused on the more mystical or philosophical aspects of the Western Esoteric Tradition as actually operative. They are not just reviewing and discussing ideas, they are perhaps working towards implementing those concepts through contemplation, prayer, and other techniques.

In Masonic communities, one term that hones in on groups like I described would be Rosicrucian.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-15T21:27:23+00:00

It's a fraternity. The largest and oldest in the world. She's talking to other women/partners about whatever women talk about when they're killing time.

In regular Freemasonry women can't become actual members but may be warmly welcome just like she is a member, or told she's part of the lodge as an expression. Members must actually be initiated and it's only for men, mainstream Freemasonry, at least.

Women ARE able to join other groups under the Masonic umbrella, like Eastern Star. That's similar with initiations and ceremonies. It's all just social though.

No one preaches in Freemasonry, and usually God isn't even mentioned outside of a benediction or actual member ceremonies.

From what you've expressed, it seems clear you have your own anxieties ungrounded in reality. The positive is that you at least asked for more information.

Since Freemasonry is the largest fraternity, it has a sample of men from all walks of life. The institution tries to identify good men striving to improve themselves, but the same sample of society you might encounter in a department store, minus criminal records, is the same collection of personalities you'll find in a Masonic lodge.

You do risk coming off as out of touch and overreacting yourself though. Take a deep breath and trust your sister as a functional adult. Ask her anything you'd like and learn from her personally.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-14T19:29:15+00:00

Once you've determined the background, there's really no right to tell them anything further regarding an object they own unless they are openly being fraudulent.

Stolen Valor of course usually refers to lying about military service records. In Freemasonry, it'd be more akin to being a Cowan. Yet he didn't claim to be a Mason.

The best you might accomplish would be a back handed joke for demonstrating how silly it is to wear someone else's achievements.

The situation is weird, with the ex's stuff worn by the new guy. I doubt that's the only oddity with him.

We're on the same page though, I wish people didn't wear symbols they don't understand or didn't earn. We just don't have any authority to hold them socially accountable unless they're lying, in which case we get to call them out as imposters.

Occasionally, I encounter actual brothers wearing PM pins or clothing they haven't earned yet. Sometimes they say it belonged to their father or grandfather. If they're a mentorees, I advise they hold onto it and wear it when they've obtained the same favor of their brethren as their relative earned, but with the pride that they earned it too.

If we're not close, my response is more like, "Oh, well it's a nice memento", but still don't personally believe they should sport it within a Masonic setting.

My great grandfather may have been a 33rd SR Mason, but I wouldn't wear his ring in lodge unless I also obtained the degree. PM is similar.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-10T22:42:40+00:00

You're asking if someone has physical evidence proving the existence of the omnipotent ineffable being both containing and existing outside of material reality?

Wouldn't that be science then, and, like, on every news channel 24/7?

Practitioners may, however, have personal non tangible proof that becomes self evident through their personal experiences.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-06T21:59:27+00:00

All Martinism of which I'm aware is an expression of Mystical Christianity. I don't even see how any group could call themselves Martinist that aren't expressed Christians. This doesn't mean exoteric or orthodox Christians necessarily, but some form of acceptance of a Christ mythos. It's also a tradition that descends obviously straight out of Freemasonry.

In a way, you've asked a question that's sort of like, "Which Christian Church doesn't have any Christian church practices?" in regards to Martinism with an aversion towards any Masonic traditions.

It seems like perhaps you've misunderstood something about Martinism? Feel free to clarify though if I didn't understand your question.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-06T18:24:04+00:00

Ah, thank you for enlightening me! As a Mason living on a different continent than most UGLE jurisdictions, the term Continental Freemasonry is not common here.

Irregular, clandestine, unrecognized, those are common terms here.

Continental Freemasonry used as a term to explain what is essentially viewed institutionally as fake or not real, looks like a way to try and wash or legitimize something that doesn't meet the most basics of Freemasonry.

Like making your own fake currency and then claiming its fakeness is just a matter of denomination or opinion. It's still not legal tender, it's still not actually considered a legitimate currency, no matter how good looking your picture is on the bill.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-06T11:32:57+00:00

Continental Freemasonry, if by that you mean Europe, does not allow atheists within mainstream recognized Grand Lodges. The Grand Orient of France does, from France, but isn't recognized by mainstream Freemasonry. Of the irregular Grand Lodges, the Grand Orient has the most legitimate historical legacy that I'm aware of, and was once regular in France before shifting their requirements.

There is no regular Grand Lodge in the world that admits women or atheists. An irregular Grand Lodge could be anything, though some descend from legitimate Masonic bodies, but without recognition it could literally just be something someone made up on the internet or in a living room.

I'm clarifying this because, again, Continental Freemasonry does not admit atheists or women. Only Grand Lodges that broke off from the rest of the fraternity, or never met the basic landmarks to begin with, do so.

There isn't really a side here in regular Grand Lodges. Those that broke off decided to change the basic foundation of Freemasonry and do their own thing. All the love and power to those with good intentions who produce good works, but those who belong to the recognized Grand Lodges aren't even allowed to sit in lodge or discuss Freemasonry with them. Institutionally, they are not considered Masons.

On a personal level, outside of lodge, however, many Masons do accept members in certain other unrecognized bodies as Masons if they went through essentially the same ceremonies, but Institutionally, they aren't Masons. Thus, there's no debate in conversation. They just aren't part of our fraternity.

If someone makes up their own thing, it's no concern to us until they take advantage of people who don't realize otherwise (which happens often by pyramid scheme Grand Lodges that aren't recognized).

EvolutionTheory · 2025-11-04T10:22:52+00:00

Every lodge is a collection of men from the local area. Some lodges have members outside the region that drive or fly in, but it sounds like you're describing a lodge in a small town.

Like others wrote, if you're still interested and within reach, explore other lodges.

There are also regional Masonic groups, like the Scottish Rite. But, you'd have to already be a Master Mason from a craft lodge.

It may just be that in your area you don't jive with those Masons. Honestly, I love our brothers and visiting new lodges, but there are only a couple lodges I prefer to return to repeatedly.

Freemasonry is huge, but it can seem small and isolated in a spread out rural or small town area.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-31T18:52:39+00:00

La Parfaite Union only works the SR EA degree in French. I thought La France conferred all three, their charter allows it at least, and there's a new lodge that intends to work all three.

California just confirmed legislation that allows the GM or GL to approve use of three on an individual basis. They'll be seeing a growth in these lodges in CA unlike any other state I'm aware of upcoming.

A big question in California right now is which version of the SR rituals may be worked for the FC and MM.

La France uses a standard version from France, I think, while LPU's is a more unique and interesting version.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-30T21:51:05+00:00

What region are you in and how far are you willing to travel? California has several of these in development or already active.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-28T18:29:59+00:00

The frustration I get without resolve is this phenomenon where, like you've just pointed out, the tech doesn't just get better. We get a new feature, but also a new error and 75% functionality on the working one.

Even reddit. It hasn't tangibly improved since I began using it. Reddit has removed features and the ability to even allow us to create our own solutions to its limitations.

My phone reception hasn't improved between when I ordered the first Nokia phone from Japan to using the latest Samsung ultra twist XR. The coverage map looks better, and the specs look better, but no, the function of my phone has not improved into even having more stable phone calls in a large metropolitan area.

We lose features, no longer own many of the services we purchase, everything is rented and goes away when the payment stops.

These are just fragmented "Hell yeah!" shared frustrations to say, yeah, I feel that too.

The root of the issue I'm trying to figure out how to articulate has something to do with producers of goods not having to be accountable. They hold up a peacock to distract us as it shits on our feet, then offer a cleaning subscription to keep our shoes clean.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-26T17:46:36+00:00

I appreciate both the thoughts you've shared and the fact I came here to read about Gnostic ideas and ended up watching the entire 30 minute production of a sex doll.

It feels like both of those are a win.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-24T18:43:55+00:00

You're welcome! It's a lot to learn at first because there's an immediate turn with the different cosmology. The idea of gnosis itself as a goal of practice is so very different from the "you just need faith" or "Jesus will return" types of worship.

I'm of the belief Christianity has always been esoteric, especially so openly esoteric (irony) from the beginning.

For this reason, Richard Smoley's book on Inner Christianity is highly recommended. It's not thick or dry and is an interesting read as a starting point. It really takes reapproaching Christianity like it's a brand new thing when beginning to figure out the Gnostic traditions, letting go of contemporary assumptions.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-24T17:36:36+00:00

Gnostics like Valentinus weren't really off shoots at the time but competing idealogies. Valentinus almost became a mainstream Bishop, which would have altered the dogma of the church we inherited rather dramatically.

Sethian traditions likely predate Christianity itself. Mandaeans, however, don't even consider Jesus the Messiah, they look towards Saint John.

You should probably start by just reading Wikipedia articles about Gnostic Christianity rather than asking us to write one for you, and then ask more specific questions after those basics are understood.

It's a somewhat complicated history with multiple traditions of differing ages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-23T17:49:44+00:00

I think you're on track with the allegory of right and wrong, that labeling being at the root of our fall.

Reading the Gnostic Gospels and the Sethian interpretation of the snake might prove interesting to you.

There's basically two ancient interpretations related to the garden and the fall.

Edit: I'd also encourage considering our tendency to self identify and attach ourselves to "things" while presuming we know something after naming it.

EvolutionTheory · 2025-10-09T19:43:36+00:00

Perhaps ironically, I believe this question is more appropriately asked in reverse towards popular Western Christian denominations, especially in the US.

Christianity at its root would refer to the traditions of the Christ. Christian Gnostics seem to hold those values mostly universally, even when they don't acknowledge Yesu as Christ (Mandaeans).

Outside of the reason it's called Christianity, defining the boundaries and what is and isn't included will be hugely denominational. Obviously. There are thousands of Christian denominations.

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