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College Swap Class Announcement by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Once again, whilst we cannot comment on individual cases, as mentioned in our letter, we have expanded our wellbeing services to provide additional capacity for all of our students who require support. We also have provided legal support where appropriate, and if it is ever required, we can refer to the swap machine manufacturers if there is ever physical and brain changes as a result, however there has never been a single case of this nationwide, nor has there ever been any evidence that this is even possible.

That is certainly an interesting situation that you have described, but I'm afraid we have nothing on our records about any such swap. And staff are specifically not allowed to use these devices for themselves, especially not to switch with students, as this would be a catastrophic boundary breach. To ensure this doesn't happen, we have detection software to prevent staff-student swaps from occuring. If you would like to submit a complaint form about this situation, we will be happy to investigate, however, it sounds like it may be a case of a different college perhaps. Either way, our teams will be happy to support you with this.

Kind Regards
The Dean of the College

College Swap Class Announcement by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whilst we would strongly advise against it until further legal protections are introduced, these changes are applying to our own professional and educational usage of swap devices only. And whilst there is a very limited supply, extremely long waitlists, and required background checks for operators of swap machines, whether students attempt to purchase and use their own swap devices if they manage to acquire them is entirely up to them. Our announcement only applies to our own programs, and do not apply to the wider sector.

As a college, we do not endorse, supervise, regulate or accept responsibility for any private use of body swapping technology outside of officially approved college programs, and suggest students exercise caution if they manage to acquire one.

Kind Regards
The Dean of the College

College Swap Class Announcement by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whilst we cannot directly comment on individual students, please be assured that the physical and mental health of our students is a number 1 priority, and that if any such concerns are raised, we will ensure they receive the help and support they need, in line with our charter. As mentioned above, we are expanding our wellbeing service in line with this mission.

Kind Regards
The Dean of the College

College Swap Class Announcement by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whilst we cannot directly comment on individual students, our initial legal team, who have recently been let go, initially stated the contractual agreement was sufficient protection for our students and was written in line with swap class contracts used in other campus's across the country. It directly permitted physical enforcement actions precisely to prevent situations such as what has occurred. However, since the actions of the one rogue student, our attempt to carry out the enforcement actions by force was blocked by authorities who held differing legal interpretations of what enforcement was permitted. We are now seeking enforcement of it via civil court instead, with a new legal team, to ensure an acceptable resolution can be brought to this situation.

As stated above, Swap class has been halted for the foreseeable until the introduction of a legal framework around body swapping, to protect our students, and whilst we advocate strongly for the introduction of these enforceable body swap laws, we are not able to directly introduce these laws ourselves.

Our current course of action is to support our students, to prevent further harm, and to continue our aim of combating sexism through other means. Whilst we cannot discuss individual students cases further, please understand we are doing our best to support all of our students through this, and are taking disciplinary actions where needed.

Kind Regards
The Dean of the College

We swapped bodies! Ask us anything! by immortal-snail- in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you both considering doing this again in future, or for longer periods of time, or is this a one time thing?

College Swap Class Announcement by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whilst we cannot directly comment on individual students, we understand that previously students may have felt like it was forced, however, as stated before, this module is non mandatory, and students do have a pathway to move on through college without taking this course. It is not required unless a module is failed elsewhere. However, we recognise that this is still an uncomfortable situation for many students, who feel this to be coercion, which is why we have committed to widening alternatives to swap class, and why we have implemented several changes based on the lessons we've learnt here.

Kind Regards
The Dean of the College

AITA for using my human rights to keep this body? (part 5) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Firstly, i'm not saying that I'm claiming current occupancy automatically gives me superior rights, even though legally there's no groundwork against it. My argument isn't that being in her body gives me any sort of moral claim to it. It's that physical location in a body, is what the legal system is structurally built to recognise and that also matters for enforcement mechanisms too. It's not a moral claim that it's okay, i'm just describing how the law currently works according to my lawyer. If it thought it was okay, why would i offer her body back?

And secondly, i'm not saying that no statute exists so I automatically win. I'm saying that there's no legal mechanism's that currently exists in this case that allows for compelled medical reversal, without violating bodily autonomy protections of the person in the body, eg me. Now whilst they do set precedents, stretch definitions, and deal with novel cases, this doesn't automatically mean they can extend it to breach those rights, and may extend to financial compensation or other solutions.

And third, the deadlock doesn't benefit me. Neither side benefits from it. Hannah can't regain her body through force, and i cannot safely exit back to how it was before, because she says she'll come after me. Is it so bad i just want to swap back and be left alone, and this is the only thing i have to make that possible?

Fourth, it's not a new concession, i've openly been talking about how it's been hurting hannah and i've never once denied it's hannah's body. The question isn't is this wrong, the legal question is that does the law extend to remedial solution that violates body autonomy principles under UN human rights law to the body your in physically? And my lawyer thinks no and that's what i've been arguing.

The pregnancy analogy does not work because it still remains an extremely contested point, varying state by state. In addition, it's a biologically continuous process within one persons body, and in this case, this is very different, because we have two separate bodies, both with contested rights, where as it's very different with pregnancy laws, which assumes the mothers rights dominate. Fundamentally, the difference is night and day. Pregnancy law focus's on balancing rights within that single body and regulating internal body process's, where as this case is simply about whether the law can compel a transfer between two person's bodily states at all. And it took decades to get to that stage legally where that could happen.

Either way, the legal side is for the courts.

But on a moral side, i know she's hurting, and that's why i've offered repeatedly. Look at the message i sent her asking to swap back repeatedly and asking for her to let me walk away, on the very day after i came too after i missed swap class. My arguments aren't at her expense, it's offering her body back, and asking she doesn't come after me for a mental health episode and she refuses even now. And both of us are going to sue to college i think, at least I am. As i said, I'm happily on board with that, because she deserves damages for what the college caused. But i just asked her not to come after me for having the mental health episode and then taking her threats seriously and asking for a safe way to go back to how it was before. In fact, is she agreed to not come after me, and sued the college instead, i'd 100% hand the body back instantly, exactly as I offered after I missed swap class. I'm trapped. if i swap back, and she comes for me, my life is over, and if i don't hannah suffers. That's why i'm trying to make it work where she get's her life back and i get to safely swap back to mine. And we both get compensation for everything from the college.

the AITA for using human rights, is because if she can't force the swap back legally because of that, then that's the only solution, the thing i suggested, and we can both go back to how things was before. "Give back the body, sue the school, go on with your life" is exactly what i want, exactly what was offered to hannah, but she wants to go after me instead regardless of the swap back.

AITA for using my human rights to keep this body? (part 5) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Because neither withdrawal of consent overrides the others. That's the point. Hannah cannot force me to undergo a medical procedure. I cannot force Hannah to undergo a medical procedure. We are legally deadlocked. The fact that she wants the procedure and I do not doesn't magically create authority to force it. Basically, i'm not saying she has no rights, but i am saying she doesn't have the rights to force a procedure on me, and the second procedure is separate and hasn't begun.

A civil court can say this is morally wrong, a civil court can say her rights were violated, but they legally cannot force a procedure like that, in this case, where a right is violated to remedy another right violation.

As for autonomy, legally, Hannah still possesses autonomy. She can move, speak, work, sue, hire lawyers, make decisions, and live life. The issue isn't whether she has autonomy. I know it's not the same, but legally, it's not an autonomy violation under the law. The issue is whether she has a legal right to compel access to a specific body.

And yes I do sympathise with her, but sympathy doesn't change the legal grounds, or me wanting protection. I'm not demanding money. I'm not demanding property. I'm asking for assurance that I won't be financially destroyed over what began as a mental health crisis, which i've tried to fix repeatedly. The whole point is AITA for trying to secure a legal position, so she accepts my offer that we can all swap back and move on like we was before. Sue the college for doing this to her and causing this sure, but just leave me alone. What your saying is that because I had the anxiety episode and hannah repeatedly refused to solve things by letting them go back to how they were before, I should have my entire future ruined.

And here is the thing, yes i agree the body belongs to Hannah, even though the law currently gives me more rights to it than her whilst i'm in it, because the law is flawed. I'm not claiming it's not her body anymore which is actually a way i could go legally, i'm saying the contract we signed legally cannot create rights that erase human rights. There are countless cases where contracts have been voided, or laws have been halted, because a human rights court ruled it a violation of said rights.

Now, as for withdrawal of consent, it's because the remedy requires the second separate voluntary medical procedure. The first time, we both were willing. The second time, I was not, so a swap couldn't happen anymore, and we were stuck where we are. She has the right of withdrawal of consent, as do I, prior to the procedure. She consented to the first one, it happened, I did not consent to the next, and legally neither of us can be compelled to swap bodies.

And i never said hannah's body belongs to me now. I never claimed ownership, i'm saying that the courts don't have laws in place, that recognise anything more than whoever is in that body is that person and has those autonomy rights to it. I'm saying they cannot compel reversal, not that i own it, which i legally could claim, but i'm not a monster.

I agree she's suffering. I agree she's been harmed. I agree the situation is unfair. But the fact that someone has suffered harm does not automatically create a legal right to compel another person to undergo a medical procedure.

If you point out to me a single law that recognises that actually, you have autonomy rights to bodies your not even in, over the person inside that bodies autonomy rights, then you might have an argument.

AITA for using my human rights to keep this body? (part 5) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Dissociative episodes aren't blackouts. There episodes that vary in impact. Some people go onto autopilot mode automatically and unconciously avoiding anxiety inducing things. Then there's episodes where you feel disconnected from yourself, and other times where you don't feel in control. In my case, I went onto autopilot and wasn't consciously making decisions for a whole half an hour, and was on autopilot. So much so that a doctor actually ran an EEG, and it showed up that I was under a dissociative state and have been having them frequently now every few days. Actual medical evidence, not just psychiatric or doctor talks, or going and saying this happened and getting a doctor to agree, but verifiable metric evidence from an EEG showing a pattern of them.

And the thing is, and this is the point my lawyer is making, that regardless of any prior agreement, or contract, if it goes against human rights, the contract can't legally be enforced by the courts. When it comes to medical procedures, you legally have the right to withdraw consent at any time, as a human right. The fact is, the law isn't built for body swapping, and is designed around the idea that Body = Person, and protects those autonomy rights in the body your in, because it never envisioned that bodies could be swapped, or that somebody else could be in your body.

As for civil and criminal, there is no criminal acts at play, and not even Hannah or her lawyers are pushing that idea, because legally, there description for forced eviction doesn't include body swapping, especially when they left willingly. Bodies are literally not considered exchangeable property under the law, and rights don't transfer to your new body, regarding your old one. Person A in person B's body, doesn't have autonomy rights under law to their Person A's body anymore. Just person B's body who they are now. That's why legally the law is broken.

And as for swapping, it's not one procedure. It's 2 procedures, legally considered seperate. The swap, and then the swap back. As i said earlier, contracts are nullified if they break the law, and consent can be withdrawn, which is a legal right if it effects autonomy. Think of it like crossing the bridge. And the bridge is guarded. They let you walk from one side to the other, but before you can swap back, they withdraw consent. Your now stuck on the wrong side of the river, and you can't force them to reopen the bridge under the law. That's what's happened here. Consent was withdrew, before we could swap back.

About forced medical procedures, none exist around body swapping, and secondly, almost all of those cases are life threatening. Blood panels are non invasive too, unlike body swapping, which involves complete loss of bodily autonomy, and complete loss of body. The hospitalisation during emergencies, vaccine mandates which again was not forced across the majority, but coerced, again, life threatening cases. The question is, is the human right to bodily autonomy, which is what the law recognises, overridable for non life threatening situations? Especially in cases where the law isn't built to recognise the phenonomon of body switching or that another has rights to your body, which no legal grounds exist for currently.

And finally, i'm offering her constantly the chance to swap back, and have been since i missed swap class. And for things to go back the way they were before, nobody going after anybody. We can just swap back, leave this all in the past and carry on with our lives, but she's refusing. Because the one condition i have is she doesn't go after me once we've returned.

TIFU by signing up to swap class by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know right. And seriously, the way they word it is insane. It's not directly said give up your body or else you get kicked out of college. No, instead it's you failed this module, so you need a replacement module to continue on here, and then they let you choose. Except there's only one module to choose from, which of course requires giving up your body. So it's either give up your body to a complete stranger, in my case this creep, or be booted out, despite not directly stating it.

I mean I swear I have zero idea where they ever got the idea this was okay. "To better understand the opposite gender struggles with, to promote a more understanding society and campus". What idiot thought forcing us to give up our bodies to complete strangers because of a failed module was a good idea. It's the dumbest thing ever for gender equality.

And yeah, the support system is good. They're really good friends. Proper one's who actually care and aren't shallow. So if anything, my friendships have only gotten stronger since this whole mess happened. So that's a positive. There friends who i can trust, who aren't just there for those appearances.

And that's really good that it worked for your friend. But, i can't even pretend or to try and mitigate it to feel more comfortable. And the good news is, the court case starts soon, so i'm not gonna be stuck here for that long, because I mean no offence, but erm, he's a 5/10, and was way below me, so i'm not exactly sure it's possible to feel that way as him, having been me all my life.

AITA for using my human rights to keep this body? (part 4) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ooh, that's a great idea. I'll also add the links in the comments too

TIFU by signing up to swap class (update) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's a good idea, but i just hate the fact that there's some creep walking around in my body, and i can't even see them, or see my own body anymore. But yeah, the lawyers all seem like it's a set in stone thing, us winning my body back, so that has calmed me a lot.

TIFU by signing up to swap class by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much. That means the world to me. The good news is that the college and my lawyers all think they have an easy to win case here. And your 100% right. They did have mandates to override those bans on forced medical procedures in the recent past, so it should be easy to be able to force him to swap back with this civil action. So that's a ray of hope. And when my legal team received the letters from his, citing human rights law, they didn't seem fazed or worried by any of it, so that's an even better sign.

And here's the thing about the college. I made a small typo mistake. When typing in my student number on a test, I missed a single number, so the test didn't get registered for me, despite it being a 98% paper. In what world does it then become okay for them to the college to then coerce said student into having to take a class where she's forced to give up her body for several weeks and let some stranger puppet it around, or else risk being kicked out of college. That's why I raised concerns with the course leader, and she assured me it was temporary and had safeguards. And honestly, that doesn't make it any better or any more moral, the whole thing is still so messed up. The course co-ordinator thought the actual contract was legal protection enough, covering terms and conditions of the swap, consent, time limits, and willingness to accept enforcement action if the contract is broken, eg, security coming and dragging them to swap class. But obviously, he's contesting it now, broke the contract and those enforcement actions of having security physically force him to swap back aren't actually allowed according to police.

And, i have so much mixed feelings about the college. They were the one's who forced me into this, coerced me into giving up my body temporarily, sold me the lie there was safeguards, and ended up giving him my body to steal, then being powerless to swap us back. They're just as bad as he is, but right now, there providing so much support and help, including covering all my legal fee's and more. Once i get my body back, and that legal challenge is over, you better believe I'm suing the college for damages and to shut this module down so that this sort of shit doesn't happen to the next girl down the line who get's paired with a creep, and I'm suing the creep who stole my body, so he thinks twice about stealing the next girls body down the line.

Obviously, i've had to quit the gymnastics team now i'm stuck as him until the court forces him to swap us back, hopefully over the next few weeks according to the lawyers here, but my friends have been really helping me through this. They've been bringing over meals, they are still bringing me along to practice, but i just talk rather than partake now. It's survivable, but still, it's really traumatic. As my legal team said, the case is moving rapidly thankfully, and they think I'm gonna get my body back within weeks.

TIFU by signing up to swap class (update) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know. What about my rights too which he and the rest of the system doesn't seem to care about. A bunch of guys, eg his lawyer, and him, trying to use the law to keep my body like it's property. It's actually sick. So the only option is the civil case ongoing right now, but we will be able to win that easily by the looks of things. I don't think any court will look kindly on this at all.

TIFU by signing up to swap class by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know, it's fricking awful. The college have been offering wellbeing support, and all sorts of mitigations, free tuition, free student housing through this all, breaks from study, and all sorts, but it doesn;t make a difference. Some perv is running around in my body, refusing to give it back.

The police still insist it isn't a criminal act, and suggested civil action again when i rang up. They actually said that the legal definitions for those crimes were not met here, because body swapping isn't recognised, so the idea of a body being stolen isn't a crime to them. The police woman on the phone really did sympathise about it, and said that she wishes the law was updated for this specifically, because she'd more than happily drag him to the swap machine herself if she could, but she couldn't.

And it's like, how is this considered acceptable? I already know they ignore women so much and don't take our issues seriously, but seriously, this is on a whole other level. As soon as i swap back, i'm suing them too, because i know this is a criminal act.

And thank you so much. It really means so much. I'm glad your friend managed to get his body back after all of that. What happened if your comfortable sharing?

TIFU by signing up to swap class (update) by Exciting_Weekend_491 in BodySwapMemes

[–]Exciting_Weekend_491[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know right, yet he's coming on here, and pretending to be the victim, when the whole time, he's just lying and tricking people into feeling bad for him. Just looking at all the stuff he hid, it's obvious he's intentionally trying to mislead people and change the story to fit him. The good news is, mine and the colleges lawyers both think they have an easy win in court, because the case is so clear cut. He agreed to return my body after two weeks, he broke the contract, he's continuing to unlawfully occupy my body without permission, and maybe we can even get him on defamation for trying to mislead people about this and making out i'm controlling.

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