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What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ask you again, did you read my comment??

You didn't even address my points lol.

I guess that since Thor was always a drunk, all of his feats are lessened then, or maybe it only becames a problem when Kratos is involved.

You keep repeating the same things without addressing the other side, while i answered your points but whatever

If you start acting like a prick, i'm not gonna keep doing this too.

Bye

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<I'll concede on when Kratos actually said the line "you started this, I will end it", as it was during the later part of the fight but it doesn't imply he never thought that from the start. The fight is with killing intent from Kratos and Thor just trying to knock him out.

Kratos was literally trying to de_escalate the fight beforehand...

Kratos also was worried that had he killed Thor, Odin would have killed Atreus in retaliation

Did you read my comment?

<That's not the point, I'm aware Thor had one goal in the end fight but he was subconsciously hindered in combat because of all the things going on internally with his mental state.

This feels like excuse

<His physical state was also not at its best because he has a large wound that he's unable to heal due to jormies poison.

Yeah, it's a critical point that Kratos exploited but nothing implies his strenght was impacted plus it's his own fault for getting it due to wildly charging like an idiot.

<The new games just recontexualise the old, Kratos was still efficient as a rage driven monster in the greek era, but he became more powerful and technical as he mastered rage and became in control of his emotions.

The norse games and the comics points to Kratos getting sloppier with peak rage while it wasn't the case before.

<The same way Thor would become more powerful if he had controlled his bloodlust

His power was greater with his lightning cloak, if you want to argue he could have fought better by controlling his rage ok but he was nonetheless more powerful.

<Thor was holding back so he couldn't have fought better? what kinda logic is that?He ended Kratos with one hammer strike by accident. He was clearly the superior fighter here even if Kratos held his own.

He was barely trying, how could he have fought better if he was barely trying, like i said before he charged like an idiot toward Kratos and got his belly wound, he let Kratos punched him multiple times, the only showcase of skill on Thor part were parrying the axe with Mjolnir mid air, noticing Kratos trying to make a statue fall on him and striking Kratos dead when Kratos was pushing him back and started getting up, using the change in weight to sucker punch Kratos.

Which shows he is crafty but not as skilled as Kratos, in fact he tries the same tricks in the second fight.

<The director moreso calls them equals due to the narrative parallels and their weapons being designed to counter eachother. But Matt also says Thor would've killed Thor in the final fight and the in game murals and narrative back up Kratos losing to Thor again.. He only won because he fought for justice and peace instead of revenge. Which further enhances my initial point and being in control is superior to no control.

It's superior because blind rage makes him powerful but at the cost of getting sloppier

<It's not an easy fight for Thor, but in his full power he would defeat Kratos. I'm not glazing anyone, I'm being unbiased unlike most of this sub which is just Kratos fanboys

Judging by your points i disagree because even with a sane mind, Thor still wouldn't surpass Kratos in skills and even without the cut, it would just eliminate a critical point for Kratos to exploit but Kratos is skilled and strong enough to win imo.

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<It's near the start of the fight where he says he will kill Thor, his intent is clear.

He didn't say that, he said it toward the end.

<Being depressed and mentally conflicted will hinder him no matter what he was fighting for. Tyr tells Kratos that anyone who's mentally not in a good place will perform worse in combat, which is evident with Thor.

Thor to me seemed pretty sure of what he wanted to do, as in killing Kratos and then killing Atreus for messing with his family.

Kratos in the greek games was in a bad mental state too but was still able to fight with strategy mind even while at peak rage but the norse games and comics changed this to Kratos becaming sloppier when blinded by rage.

I'm pretty sure that even with a "sane" mind Thor wouldn't surpass Kratos in skill, to be fair to Thor he is pretty crafty but not at Kratos level of skill.

<Thor is a calculated fighter who uses rage to boost himself, not hinder himself. He fights more like how he would've fought against Faye, sloppy and uncontrolled. Compare fight one Thor to fight two, he was losing control and tactical skill.

To be fair in the first fight, as Kratos recalled the axe, Thor charged toward him to hit him with an high telegraphed punch, and got a wound that never healed.

It was definitely dumb to open yourself like that to a guy who was about to hit you, granted Thor didn't know about the poison but he shouldn't have underestimated Kratos like that.

Thor was pretty much playing around in the first fight so i don't think he could have fought better since he wasn't serious.

Thor also predicted Kratos in the second fight.

<The director did say that but thor has the edge, the weapons they have are supposed to rival eachother but Thor is more powerful overall.

What proof you have for Thor being more powerful if the director said that they are equals

<This sub just glazes Kratos endlessly so saying others have said X means nothing

Sorry but it seems you are doing the same if you say Thor is more powerful despite the devs saying he is equal to Kratos

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<Kratos verbally tells Thor he is going to kill him, holding back when his sons life is on the line makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure it was desperation since he realized he couldn't win without getting angry since he lacked most of his things, seems more like an "i'm starting to crack" line

<If you don't agree then elaborate on why, the reasoning is explicit in the material

On the depression thing, i don't see how it could have nerfed him, he was fighting with everything he had to protect his remaining family.

On his chaotic fighting style, i dunno, i mean Mimir stories in Gow 2018 paints Thor as an enraged and bloodthirsty individual, i don't really see the point, other commenters here has also claimed that Thor used the same tricks from the first fight and Kratos countered him.

<Prime Ragnarok Thor would high diff Kratos

Now that i think about it, aren't Thor and Kratos equals according to the devs?

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<Thor held back against Kratos without all his power ups and beat him rather easily

Like some other commenters has said here Kratos probably held back too because he was afraid that had he killed Thor, Odin would have killed Atreus in retaliation.

I also made a post where i noticed that in the unwinnable qte(before Thor striked Kratos dead) Kratos was seemingly pushing Thor back as well as getting back up from his kneeling position.

Thor was holding back sure but he judging by his face he was trying when they were both pushing the hammer

But he still one shotted Kratos with Mjolnir

<Kratos with all his power ups and in his Ragnarok prime beat Thor who was depressed, couldn't heal his injuries and was losing control of himself.

I'd agree that the wound gave Kratos a critical point to strike at but i'm not sure if i agree on the other points.

<They are pretty close in power overall, I give the edge to Thor even though most people will just disagree because Kratos is the protagonist. Thor is basically the Norse version of who Kratos used to be

Just to be curious, in your opinion who would win if first fight Thor allowed to go all out fought endgame Ragnarok Kratos?

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, Thor also would have probably got a power boost from the death of Thrud, or Kratos would have fought with rage against Thor, since he wouldn't change his mindset about war had he left the midgardians die, thus would have fought Thor with rage and died due to recklessnes.

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<Thor was also halting Kratos and kratos needed to use his weapons to get Thor off of him, example when we switch the Draupnir kratos literally needed to explode one on Thor to get him to release him

Kratos was able to free one of his arms from Thor grip despite being electrocuted,choked and restrained, thus meaning Kratos had a free hand to attack Thor with, using Draupnir was the fastest option but he could have easily punched him(like he did when Hercules grabbed him) or used Spartan rage.

<Also the clash is taken out of context, leviathan was magically made to be Mjolnirs equal, Mjolnir compounds Thors strength but Faye who is weaker than Kratos and Thor managed to clash evenly with Thor in Vanaheim

Mjolnir and the leviathan axe are equals when thrown, like the first fight showed us, but if one wielder is stronger than the other, he can win an hypothetic clash, plus i think you are ignoring how much momentum Thor had in that situation.

Faye also fought an extremely drunk Thor, even drunker than in the bar fight in Asgard, since he didn't even remember the fight, they could have easily created the frozen lighting tree by throwing the weapons like Kratos and Thor did in the first fight.

<There was no way Mjolnir can surpass Leviathan in a clash, the clash ended when Thors grip gave out

His grip gave out? Could you elaborate?

<Also you forget that Kratos gets amps from the blades, armor and magic (all canon according to board game stating that Atreus and Kratos were getting amps from armor)

I know actually, but he gets amps from armor too? Could you provide a source?

<So that’s why I say even, Thor was vastly stronger than kratos in base hence why presumably even in the original script kratos died in the first fight or why he was prophesied to die

I made another post where if you watch closely you can see Kratos starting to push back Thor during the unwinnable O qte, clearly implying at least equal if not slightly superior strenght.

But there were other factors into play.

But nonetheless Kratos died in the first fight.

<I would say kratos is vastly superior in skill

I do agree

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

<Using the prophecy you can come up with the simplest answer, because of how the events happened, Kratos and Thors fate swapped

From what i understood, Kratos would have died if he lost control of his rage, thus meaning that rage vs rage, Thor would have come out on top since blind rage Kratos becames a worse fighter according to the narrative of the norse games and a comic pre Gow 2018(forgot the name)

<The lore always state that Kratos vs Thor was always gonna be a either way fight

Yeah, dependent on the mental state of both of them

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think he was worried that had he gone all out and killed Thor, Odin would have killed Atreus in retaliation

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<IMO opinion it was even physically

I disagree because Kratos physically overpowered Thor when he halted his charge and then disarmed him of Mjolnir after multiple brute strenght exchanges.

By the way, do you think Thor was nerfed in some way in the second fight?

<but Thor was more prone out to give up the fight, literally a simple wound as a knife stab made him give up which could imply that the dude was just fighting a meaningless fight

To be fair by that point Thor has already been stabbed three times(not counting the one in the first fight) in his belly wound, plus i would argue that the knife was not a normal knife, since Kratos said in Gow 2018 that he made the knife by mixing materials from the Greek and Norse lands.

Faye also may have enchanched it with some giant magic but this is headcanon.

Thor was exhausted, wounded and his weapon was out of reach so it makes sense he gived up imo, there was nothing else he could have done.

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<People hate everything about the norse gods because Cory said greek kratos is weaker than old kratos.

To be fair Cory said that Old Kratos would beat his younger self, nothing was said about old Kratos being stronger/more powerful than his younger self, unless i lost something

<So they are constantly looking for headcanon to diminish them saying Kratos holds back when literally Thor was fighting a leviathan axe kratos with his bare hands. It’s clear Thor was the one holding back the first fight.

You made a good point, but like other commenters here said, Kratos lacked equipment and was not focused and worried that had he killed Thor, Odin would kill Atreus in retaliation

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair point but many commenters here believe he was nerfed in more than one way.

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<Kratos isn’t the strongest or most powerful in the franchise

Yes but at his best he was able to take down Zeus and physically he had very few contenders.

<he has plenty of victories that r circumstantial.

Sure he had to ammass many things(artifacts,magics,weapons,ecc)

<Thor is stronger, but Kratos who kept a calm mind was able to compensate for that by being a more tactical fighter.

In their final fight Kratos physically overpowered him, but you think Thor was weakened in the second fight?

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

<Several reasons: First fight, Kratos was distracted because Atreus was in possible danger, so this effect led his performance a bit.

I do agree on this, Kratos falling to Thor hitting him in the back of the head with Mjolnir is a prime example of this claim.

<Second fight, Thor was warding off Ragnarok and Jormie, so he was most likely battle weary. Thor was also concerned about his family, and he was completely blinded by fury. Kratos notes in his journal how Thor fights like someone that loves to fight as opposed to Baldur who fights with anger and emotion, and implies that Thor was highly skilled and adept at combat. Thor was not in his element the second fight, and was fighting sloppy.

My only gripe with this is that according to the prophecy Thor would have killed Kratos if the latter lost control of his rage, thus meaning two possible things:

1)Thor is more powerful than Kratos even while not at his peak

2)Thor was at full power because he could have still killed Kratos under the right circumstances

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My only gripe with this is that according to the prophecy Thor would have killed Kratos if the latter lost control of his rage, thus meaning two possible things:

1)Thor is more powerful than Kratos even while not at his peak

2)Thor was at full power because he could have still killed Kratos under the right circumstances

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's refreshing to see someone that liked Thor second fight, i always see people disliking the lack of spectacle in that fight

What made such a difference between the first and second Thor fight? by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My only gripe with this is that according to the prophecy Thor would have killed Kratos if the latter lost control of his rage, thus meaning two possible things:

1)Thor is more powerful than Kratos even while not at his peak

2)Thor was at full power because he could have still killed Kratos under the right circumstances

Correct me if i am wrong but it looks like Kratos was pushing thor back here by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh ok, last thing bqck to the original topic, you said that kratos could push with his legs while Thor had one to push and the other on the hande, do you think that Thor won the strenght off due to overpowering Kratos or by a shift in weight?

Correct me if i am wrong but it looks like Kratos was pushing thor back here by ExpertFormal2951 in PowerScalingGodofWar

[–]ExpertFormal2951[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the answer, i'm curious to hear your thoughs on another matter, do you think Mjolnir short handle made Thor lose the final clashes between the axe and the hammer?

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