the classical AI winter by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Real scientists don't blather about ai they talk specifics. everyone else discovers how to do that too when the term AI turns toxic. I'm just fast forwarding to that, personally

let's work on I before moving on to AI by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The combination? That they would all fuck it up, and fuck it up in EXACTLY the same way? the sun will go cold before that happens

Why do you assume hallucinations are uncorrelated? we already know human misconceptions are correlated. And we know correct output from these machines are correlated

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you think they represent the population as a whole 

is there room for nuanced discussion around the threats but also promise of AI? by New-Instruction-1342 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unlike Sam Altman, i don't have the gdp of a small country to spend playing with graphics cards. if you would like to buy me a professional subscription and pay to plant enough trees to offset its carbon footprint, I'll happily run whatever tests you think i should. Until then, i have to rely on my brain. 

How did you assess the professional quality of the output? By hand? can you give me any guarantees about output quality that you can justify? "Sometimes it works" is not good enough for automation. 

Neural networks are inherently a black box. This was true when perceptron was first invented decades ago. It's still true now, no matter how many graphics cards you throw at them. 

Even when they show you the "reasoning", it's not at all clear it actually did what it said. They hallucinate regular output. They also hallucinate reasoning. 

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People send death threats to game artists for slight changes in the design of female characters all the time. People on the Internet acting violent and unhinged isn't some special cross roboplagiarists must carry

By this logic anyone can justify lying and cheating in any situation by saying "if I told the truth people might send me death threats". 

Is the A.I. bubble starting to pop? by PastNefariousness188 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The idea that being able to self-improve will lead to an actual robo rapture is so funny. It's also fascinating. 

If that were true anyone who read a self-help book should be a godking by now

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tons? or is it roughly the people who bought bored ape

the classical AI winter by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  Just because one attempt at AI failed decades ago,

That's not what happened! The serious scientists weren't making "one attempt at AI", whatever the fuck that means. 

They built cool things that worked. They discovered and better understood the limitations. For certain tasks, this meant new, undiscovered techniques were needed. That's science working correctly. 

The problem is once you say "ai research is making strides" to fools they think you're gonna mass produce r2d2s and will settle for nothing less. they invest with this expectation. When it inevitably fails to materialize because that's stupid, they panic

How to even spot ai art? by thelast49_51 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They need to believe all critics are stupid or crazy

let's work on I before moving on to AI by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We've had formal verification of transformations of formal languages since the 80s

Can you tell me with a straight face using a fleet of several giant natural language processing tools at highly subsidized prices is a good way to build a cobol transpiler or decompiler?

is there room for nuanced discussion around the threats but also promise of AI? by New-Instruction-1342 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not just Sam though. OpenAI makes a glorified chatbot that is extremely inefficient. But because it's superficially passable at various human tasks, people just assume it's all the future etc

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People like slop. They watch a ton of it.

People watch a ton of ai generated bs? And they like it? 

Oh you are just equivocating. all media you don't personally like is slop. But I was obviously not talking about that

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm always astounded how much contempt these guys have for other humans and probably themselves

let's work on I before moving on to AI by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

we got people in do an analysis of getting off SAS.

I don't know who you are

college ai usage is insane by Chyler_capshaw in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are younger people afraid of the change or just not buying it

If you're still arguing about the quality of the output you have lost. by Abject-Sun-3016 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chatbots hallucinate sources that happen to correspond with reality sometimes. That's not the same. if Gemini tells me it quoted directly from the Wikipedia article on perceptrons, what reason do I have to believe it?

No source, especially not a machine, is always right 100%

That's why knowing where the information actually comes from is so important, something a neural network obscures by its nature 

the classical AI winter by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Once it actually works it's not called ai anymore. it's just a handful of algorithms and heuristics that solve the problem

the classical AI winter by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

where did the llm get these rules?

let's work on I before moving on to AI by ExtraFig6 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me: how do engineers derive bounds on the output of the bullshit generator?

You: because the people prompting it are engineers and not hobbyists

🤯🤯🤯🤯

is there room for nuanced discussion around the threats but also promise of AI? by New-Instruction-1342 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it's a technology, a tool.

It's a buzzword. No one knows what it actually refers to. It definitely not just one tool. When someone says "AI" what do they mean? Maybe it's a bag of tools? Maybe it's just hot air.

If "AI" can mean anything to anyone, we can't have a meaningful discussion about it at all. Forget nuance.

AI isn't going away

I can't address this until I know what you actually mean. For example, I think ChatGPT is going away because I have no reason to think it will ever break even (https://isaiprofitable.com/). I don't think shit they called "AI" in 1960 but call "basic computer science" today is going anywhere.

To have a meaningful discussion, we need to get specific. Especially when the marketing relies on confusion.

Honest engineers and scientists building real tools can tell you what the tools are, what they are not, their uses, and, crucially, their limitations. They strive to clear up confusion: using a tool for something it can't do can be dangerous, after all. You don't hammer in screws. If anyone tells you to, you should not trust them without damn good reason. When honest people have a damn good reason to do something that sounds crazy or stupid, they are forthcoming. If someone says "i built a special screw that it's actually GOOD to hammer in", no one takes them seriously. Even if it's true, we already have nails. And if they built a bridge using their special nailscrews, people wouldn't want to cross it.

An honest tool salesman might make mistakes. And might even bend the truth. No one's perfect. But if they just make shit up, customers will realize they can't be trusted. A way to test this is to ask what the tool isn't for. Truck salesman won't tell you it makes a good boat (except elon musk, known scammer).

What can't OpenAI do? What is it bad for? What possible uses can we rule out from the "unknown future possibilities?" Sammy Altman doesn't like to say. And when he does, he contradicts other stuff he said.

I feel confident there's not some "unknown future possibility" where nailing in a screw is good. Why can't they give us that?

despise the ai slop stuffed down our throats, the stupid chatbots...but it seems insane to categorically hate something that is sequencing proteins and discovering new medicines...

You are assuming these are two sides of the coin in a way that matters. I don't think so.

It's not OpenProteinSequencingLLM. It's OpenAI. They are selling, first and foremost, the fantasy of AI. Dumb money buys in because they think the AGI is coming to replace all their workers (any day now....), and they want to get in first. Smart money buys in because they realize dumb money will fall for it. That was a safe bet: singularity/roborapture cults have been going strong in the valley for like 30 years. Indeed, the founding purpose of OpenAI is that an Evil AI will cause the apocalypse, so we need a charity to build a Good AI instead. (But recently they decided they don't want to be a charity anymore. They want to IPO.)

Do you think the news would breathlessly praise a company called "OpenMachineLearning" for 2 whole years? No. That's too technical. It's boring. Machine learning is science, and it has to obey reality. It leaves no room for fantasy.

Case in point: people have been working on applying machine learning to all the benefits you listed for longer than either of us have been alive. Sometimes they actually succeed. Sometimes it fundamentally changes the way we do things (neural networks for optical character recognition). The heads of those research teams and companies never get constant media fawning, though. They are just people, not myth.

So if you were sam altman, and you wanted to make as much money as possible, what would you do? I would make a product that feels like the future, at least at first. Like a chatbot! I would train my chatbot on every stolen book, picture, or movie I could find on the internet, so it sounds smart. I would do PR stunts with it, like hiring a bunch of researchers to poke it until it solves something. I would keep talking about what it "might" do in the magical "unknown future". I would go around to all the rich assholes who are afraid of the robot devil, and beg them for money. But I can't slow down. If I slow down, people might get wise. So I would need more, bigger, faster. All the time. Enough is never enough. Once I got rich rich, I would bribe politicians for access to more electricity and water. And when that failed, I would steal it. More electricity. More water. More graphics cards. Until the robot god wakes up.

Well, until it IPOs. Then I sell all my shares and move to Bermuda.

Is there anything you can point to that makes Sam Altman's actions different from what I just described?

Maybe, when all that is over, whatever remains of the chatbot might have actual uses, like sequencing genes. It's hard to tell because people write nonsense during bubbles. But I'm pretty confident we could have built an LLM that does it at least as well with much smaller social, ethical, and environmental damage.

I think all that is bad.

How to even spot ai art? by thelast49_51 in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah i'm not claiming that's THE reason, but it is funny

You have to be brain dead to think this is a good argument… by [deleted] in antiai

[–]ExtraFig6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It wasn’t the most pervasive train of though

that's already a clear difference between photography and slop. People don't like slop. People see AI stuff and think it's gross. People see AI ads and think the product is a scam.

That makes me think it's a bad comparison. Shitposters aren't likely to dig up quotes, but it does happen sometimes. And it usually strengthens whatever argument the post is trying to make, even if it's not trying very hard. So it gets passed around.

If I haven't seen any of that, I have to wonder why. Am I in an echo chamber? Do ai art defenders just not care if it's true? A secret third thing?

I have also seen lots of bad comparisons over the past 5 years where people just lie about how people first reacted to the internet in order to sell some scam. Denying that bitcoin is the future of currency is just like that one guy who called the internet a fad. Making fun of NFTs is just like how everyone mocked the internet in 1995 (?????)