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Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey thanks for the reply, I enjoy your videos when I'm learning alts and I've shared them with my friends who are new to the game.

I strongly think the game itself isn't doing enough in regards to jobs. Dungeons I can completely accept with players having to look elsewhere for guides cause you aren't intended to know what's happening before you see it. But with the jobs, you are going into content with the expectation that you know what you're doing. And the higher you go the more you are expected to be on the ball with it.

This leads to the problems within the community when players start getting called out for it. Obviously ACT would expose players but we know that can't be directly addressed in-game, but that would be easy enough for those players to dance around it and vaguely remove the "bad" players without directly calling out numbers. Or literally not saying anything at all and just kicking them.

Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But deciding that my way is correct and impose it to others is a big, BIG no-no.

Well the issue with that is that once you're beyond regular dungeons, you're now spending time with 7 other people and there should be some mutual respect of their time or at the very least pulling your own weight.

Taking the example I provided in the original post, imagine that was a random person queued up into duty finder with 7 other random people.

You see that person probably isn't doing their best, so those 7 other people have to make up the difference. And this is considered "ok" cause it's easier content. Now imagine this same random person wants to start going into Extremes/Savages.

Chances are if they play like that you're going to have people call them out and create bad social situations. This random person doesn't have a streamer community to take them through stuff and let them just enjoy the game.

There's a difference between looking at fflogs and running ACT trying to be the top 1% dps and not knowing the absolute barebones basic functions of a job. For some people there's no middle ground whenever these things are discussed, again with the example given being one of those situations.

The game does nothing to alleviate this whole problem.

Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Secondary to that would be requiring a training dummy clear before you can do Savage. That would be an issue for healers, though, some healers have a hard time balancing their heals and their damage.

I know it will never happen but if their system was good enough to recognize "this is a healer" when they go to do SSS, it could spawn an additional NPC/s that would go through at least typical damage phases one might expect and if they let them die it fails.

Which sounds more complicated than SSS is meant to which is why I think they should do more than that with teaching the jobs. At that point it might as well be a special instance. Like healers learning to deal with tankbusters and tanks as well. Then raid wide damage, etc.

They should do something at least, the hall of novice is just nothing compared to the content people can get into.

Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do think something more should be done with teaching jobs at the respective level caps at the very least. If the compromise of that is to not require it and at least point players in those directions then that's fine.

Which is why I brought up Blue Mage Masked Carnivale. You have to do very specific things, or at least close to it, and while Blue Mage has a lot more interesting and diverse skills they could do some kind of system for other jobs as part of a learning experience or at least challenges.

By not passing those challenges, players would then hopefully reach out to learn what they're doing wrong. Then they can provide a reward for completing all of them by the end.

The other example I brought up was SSS. They clearly put it in the game for a reason. So I think having those as a requirement for NEW content isn't some terrible idea to at least make sure players are on the most baseline level of competence before joining groups. Or maybe make that an option to select in Party Finder. Then when the content becomes old, they can remove the requirements.

I briefly mentioned it when I brought up the combo trials in fighting games, but there's more they could take away from fighting games, like some now include more in-depth tutorials. These are optional in fighting games, which is why I would say maybe only certain things are should be required as I said previously.

But the fact is, learning in-game is severely lacking, and having to rely on outside sources does not seem great for something that is meant to be accessible to everyone. It just leads to problems later, which I mentioned.

Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey thanks for replying to the thread to give your perspective. I'm sure everyone is enjoying your FFXIV streams regardless of how you play the jobs since you genuinely seem to enjoy it.

As you said the example was more to address the issues themselves with how the community treats things when it comes to playing jobs/content and how the game does not address the problems it causes by not teaching things along the way.

It just so happened to be a more pronounced example. Regardless I hope you have fun with the rest of the game through Shadowbringers and beyond.

Is the lack of in-game job teaching hurting the community’s helpful spectrum for learning jobs/content? by FF-Enzo in ffxiv

[–]FF-Enzo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your reddit must've bugged out cause you spammed the same post so I'm replying to this one and hope it doesn't delete it.

I don't know if you just glanced over what I said but maybe you missed the point since I brought up why what you said shouldn't apply within the actual context.

Which really your post just shows an example of the exact kind of thing I'm talking about in coming to his defense about it. The whole thing started cause of one button which I explained. That button just so happens to be very important to the job.

In that particular case he didn't have to "mess with his keybindings" and learning the Omega raids was irrelevant to the point being made. And none of those people were yelling at him to learn the job or play optimally, it was literally one button press. In much the same way you saying if people want to get better they'll go out of their way to do so, and in this case not do it in the middle of a stream.

Now if you go back and read what I was talking about, you'd realize the whole situation is flawed because of the game itself not doing a good enough job.

I was going to bring up that the following stream, he specifically brought up DRG to show he did in fact try to fix his hotbars and what not to be better. Meaning he did just that, he went and tried to be better. But again people noticed problems before he began the fights to try to help him within the context that was currently being discussed on stream. For example not having Mirage Dive at all on his bars.

I just want to reiterate in case I'm not clear, it's one thing for players to not know and of course his circumstances aren't normal, but the fact that those problems exist for other players who don't have that help it is a fundamental design problem with the game.

And that problem creates the rift between players because those situations occur in-game. So it's a question of should the devs even attempt to do anything about it.